New Version of the IVA manual

[skov]

New version out yesterday:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/M1%20IVA%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf

Only about 50 changes to it, and only a week before my IVA :eek:

[rpjg1975]

Perfect timing eh? :(

Much that is an issue? :confused:

[Stot]

From what I can see the main thing is that the chassis number must be fully welded onto a chassis member now if on a separate plate and the rear fog light must turn its self off when you turn out the lights and not come on again until you specifically turn on the fog light OR you have a warning buzzer that sounds when you turn off the lights but leave the fog light switch active to remiond you to turn it off.

Cheers
Stot

[skov]

From what I can see the main thing is that the chassis number must be fully welded onto a chassis member now if on a separate plate and the rear fog light must turn its self off when you turn out the lights and not come on again until you specifically turn on the fog light OR you have a warning buzzer that sounds when you turn off the lights but leave the fog light switch active to remiond you to turn it off.

Cheers
Stot

Yeah, they're the only two changes I spotted that could be an issue, the rest seems to be correcting typos and rewording things.

There's some debate over whether we need to do the fog thing or not over on the locost forum, but I spent last night re-wiring my dash to put a buzzer in just to be on the safe side...

[Stot]

...I spent last night re-wiring my dash to put a buzzer in just to be on the safe side...

Exactly my thoughts. :D

Cheers
Stot

[thailoz]

I have a 1 year old Honda and it dont do that lol

[beardydave]

I have a 1 year old Honda and it dont do that lol

Probably turns it off with the lights though. I've had 30 year old Saabs that have done that.

But they also turn the main lights off with the ignition.

[Davidbolam]

Yeah, they're the only two changes I spotted that could be an issue, the rest seems to be correcting typos and rewording things.

There's some debate over whether we need to do the fog thing or not over on the locost forum, but I spent last night re-wiring my dash to put a buzzer in just to be on the safe side...

Hi Skov,

Can you put up a diagram of how you are planning to wire in the buzzer. I am planning to use the original mx5 fog light switch so this will not automatically turn off.

David

[flyerncle]

There are changes to mot test coming up shortly so is probably in line with those changes.:rolleyes:

[CTWV50]

I can see why they've introduced the foglight thing into the IVA. Must be due to all the deaths caused by people leaving there foglights on when parked up! Or because someone working for the IVA has to justify their salary!!:D

I could do with details on that too John, guess it involves a relay and a piezo. I'm guessing?

[skov]

I could do with details on that too John, guess it involves a relay and a piezo. I'm guessing?

You guess right!

This is more or less what I've ended up doing:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y1daX37nxH4/UcGk5sRnfgI/AAAAAAAAJo4/zGELvYcPlLM/s800/fog_bolloxs.jpg

Prior to that I just had the switch :rolleyes:

[CTWV50]

You guess right!

This is more or less what I've ended up doing:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y1daX37nxH4/UcGk5sRnfgI/AAAAAAAAJo4/zGELvYcPlLM/s800/fog_bolloxs.jpg

Prior to that I just had the switch :rolleyes:

Wow! I didn't think it would be that complicated, I don't understand. Wouldn't the buzzer just buzz all the time when the fog light is on? Or does the 1 amp diode some how stop it buzzing! Ehh I feel thick! Why is the relay at the bottom not doing anything? No I'm confused! lol!

[CTWV50]

Oh I see now the electric current passes through the diode when the ignition is switched off and the fog light switch is on because it then becomes the path of least resistance? Am I right??:D I'm not, am I? ....Doh!

[SeriesLandy]

When the ignition is on the buzzer has 12v at either side, when the ignition is off (0v) it will buzz as that's the earth.

[CTWV50]

When the ignition is on the buzzer has 12v at either side, when the ignition is off (0v) it will buzz as that's the earth.

Mmmm I still don't get it but I started looking at relay stuff and ended up coming up with this....

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3670/9084867839_4126b7dcb8_b.jpg

Would that work? Other than the fact I'm probably drawing too much curent through the 1st relays coil to power the fog but another relay would solve that. Or am I way off track?

[skov]

Would that work? Other than the fact I'm probably drawing too much curent through the 1st relays coil to power the fog but another relay would solve that. Or am I way off track?

In a word, no :D
You're right - the fog won't light up because it won't get enough current through the coil of the relay.
You could add a third relay, but you'd be over complicating it a bit!

You can completely ignore the second relay on my circuit. I only needed that because I'm using a switch with a built in LED.
If I was doing it from scratch I'd use a seperate warning lamp wired in parallel with the fog light.
So without that my circuit looks like this:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yajsyqERCFo/UcH5JVk7SnI/AAAAAAAAJpc/M2ocn6MKMzw/s512/fog_bolloxs_2.jpg

So... if you ignore the buzzer and diode first. When the switch is on it turns the relay on. If the lights are on the fog gets power, it they're off it doesn't. Simples.

Now, ignore the relay and fog light and just look at the switch, diode and buzzer.
When the switch is on and IGN is on, both sides of the buzzer are at 12V, so no current flows through the buzzer and it stays off.
When the switch is on and IGN is off, the + side of the buzzer will be at 12V and the - side will be at 0V. So current will flow through the buzzer and it will sound.

The diode is needed to stop current flowing from IGN through the buzzer and relay coil when the fog switch is off and IGN is on.

[CTWV50]

Ahh I see! You are quite brilliant. One question though! Why does the piezo buzz if a circuit isn't made to the negative side of the battery?:confused:

[twinturbo]

When the switch is on and IGN is off, the + side of the buzzer will be at 12V and the - side will be at 0V. So current will flow through the buzzer and it will sound.

Only if the ignition switch changes from live to ground , most will change from live to unconnected not ground.

TT

[skov]

Ahh I see! You are quite brilliant. One question though! Why does the piezo buzz if a circuit isn't made to the negative side of the battery?:confused:

Only if the ignition switch changes from live to ground , most will change from live to unconnected not ground.

TT

Ah ha, you've both discovered the slightly dubious subtlety in my scheme :o

It's correct that IGN is typically switched from battery to unconnected.
However, there are going to be several things on the car that are powered off IGN.
These will be connected between IGN and GND, and effectively drag IGN down to GND when it's switched off.
The buzzer will sort of leech current through these loads, which is the dubious part. However it requires so little current that it gets away with it...

[CTWV50]

Those electrons are trickey little buggers!:D

[CTWV50]

I'm "currently" haha using them to reverse the rust to some parts! Works a treat for the patient builder!

[baz-r]

brillent just found this with only 4 days to iva!
looks like im ringing iva man to doubble check before i panic :o

[skov]

brillent just found this with only 4 days to iva!
looks like im ringing iva man to doubble check before i panic :o

Ah yes, you're booked in the day before me aren't you!
That section is particularly badly worded (even by IVA manual standards!), so hopefully it is all a fuss over nothing.
Let us know know what IVA man says.

[baz-r]

spoke to my local iva tester today over phone and he confirmed what i was thinking

if your fog only works with dip and main or front fogs there is nothing to worry about

if your fog works with side only you need to worry about the notes with buzzer etc.
its more for mass produced cars that dont meet the std fog only on with dip/main or f/fogs.

[skov]

Panic over :D

[flyerncle]

On the foglight subject,I tested a ford ka the other day and interestingly the fog light goes out and will not light again if you turn the lights off,the switch must be pressed again with the lights on to make it work,may be a way out aof problems if someone can explain how its wired up.

[skov]

Spoke to the IVA tester, and the bloke that seems to supervise them, about this at my test today.
They admitted that it's poorly worded and said it should be changed in the next version of the manual.
Essentially we don't need to worry about it. Like Baz says, it only applies if the fog can stay on with side lights (which it shouldn't really!).

[rpjg1975]

Just tested mine.....sierra donor loom and my fog light stays on with side lights too :mad:

[baz-r]

Just tested mine.....sierra donor loom and my fog light stays on with side lights too :mad:

its an easy fix on a late sierra stalks setup tap onto the brown/black wire that is in the loom to the stalks this is earthed only in step 2 of the light stalk
feed this to the coil of a relay then take a fused ign feed to the other side of the relay coil then use the contacts of this new relay to break the feed to your fog light switch

this way you will only have the fog light working with sides,ign and headlight dip or main:rolleyes:

[rpjg1975]

Probably me being a bit thick but what type of relay do I use? Bit at a loss as far as electricery goes!

[SeriesLandy]

Just a normal 12v relay, this is the one I bought (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251099847620?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)

Then all you do is:
85 - Ignition switched live
86 - Switched earth from pin 56 (brown/black wire) on sierra stalks
30 - Feed from fuse box (ignition live)
87 - Feed to fog switch then to the light

[rpjg1975]

Ah gotcha. I get confused with different colours, number of pins etc. Probably just one that I used to wire up spotlights to main beam years ago rather than fry light stalks by wiring them directly!