Mot/iva

[axle]

Hi Guys
Reading on the forum, can not make sense what is first as some one else some where else on the forum was talking about setting the brake limiter on the rolling road of the local MOT station prior to IVA! So what is first MOT or IVA? Surely the car has to have all its normal documentation before the MOT!

Cheers Axle

[fabbyglass]

You can MOT on a chassis number

[Bonzo]

As far as I know, you only need to have the IVA test to register & tax the car.

I believe that most local MOT stations will let you have the use of their rolling road to help you to set up your brakes prior to the IVA
The costs should not be too great, i guess it will depend on how well you know your local testing station. ;)

You may need to provide some general axle weights to allow the rolling road operator to calculate the correct brake effort & balance.

This way, at least you know your brakes will be OK for the IVA test. :cool: :)

[axle]

Hi Guys
Does this mean you can trailer the car to the MOT station and after passing it can be driven for the IVA, or Have got the wrong picture here?

Cheers

[Bonzo]

I may be completely barking up the wrong tree but this is my understanding of the way things work.

The car is taken for an IVA test.

Once passed you are issued with a MAC certificate.

The MAC will enable you to register & tax your car.

An MOT certificate is not required for the first 3 years as per new car.

I also believe that if you are able to find an insurer that will insure the car on the VIN number the car can be driven to the IVA test.

Now I will duck for cover :eek: :D :D

[axle]

Cheers Ronnie
You have made my day!

Regards Axle

[flyerncle]

I could be wrong but have wide shoulders to bear the grief.
Mot on chassis number self stamped (right side of chassis) can be driven to test if pre booked (nearest station )Trade plates would save grief from plod.I have tested many imports this way and it gets them on the VOSA system as they have no uk reg.
IVA
DVLA with cert from VOSA and register and tax.
I think it has been mentioned that you do not need a test for three years after.
FrankieBoy or Spud69 can probably shed more light on this.

[Bonzo]

Just out of interest & as I am not a NT

Can you log onto the MOT system using just the VIN number ?

My take on things have mainly come from reading lots of posts over on the LCB forum. :D

Quite a few builders who had an MOT before the SVA were plauged each year for an MOT certificate before they could tax their car on year 2 & 3

I have spent many hours on both DVLA & VOSA websites & not found any fixed procedure. All in all very vauge to say the least :confused: :confused:

[flyerncle]

When you log a test,reg number, last six of vin.
You can create a new record if you have no reg or vin already on the system but be careful in doing so as it is not easy to correct and you get grief from VOSA.
"All very vague" Of course it is,Government remember !

[Bonzo]

I can relate to that :D :D

Is it ever easy dealing with government orgs. :rolleyes:

Had my class 7 ( 3,500kg ) Transit logged on to the system before my ole mucker realised that he could only test up to 3,000kg

I just hooted when I saw the failure form :D

[flyerncle]

That sort of thing gets you mega grief and the system should stop you from testing it,message goes something like "you are not authourised to test this class of vehicle " same thing if you try to test class 5/mini buses over certain seats and 3500kgs.
Minefield !

Something worth noteing,new one man test lanes may have a brake roller tester that will give you axle weights,Tecalmit is one.

[Bonzo]

Something worth noteing,new one man test lanes may have a brake roller tester that will give you axle weights,Tecalmit is one.

That is interesting, could be very handy ;)

I bet they cost a whole mountain of beer tokens :eek:

[axle]

Hi
One thing I need to warn everyone going to IVA on a trade plate, If you did this then it is no longer an Ammeture build !!!

Axle

[flyerncle]

Miserable bar stewards all of them !!!!!

About 15-20 K Ronnie.

[frankie boy]

HI
I drove my car with insurance on the VIN number to MOT. To the nearest station that could dill with my car. :D
This means that you can get it on to the lift and not drop in to the rolling road for the brakes with out getting stuck. I believe that you need to drive your car as much as you can be for IVA/ SVA so going to mot can be a good test for the car. I had coved over 100 miles be for SVA.:D I drove to SVA and to the DVLA inspection. You just need to have it all pre booked just in cast PC plod gives you pull.:eek:

[axle]

Hi Frank
This is getting to be interesting, you are saying after the MOT you can drive the car as much as you want. before the IVA so
1)Is there not a time limit?
2)So how about the number plate, and what do you tell boys in blue?
3) please clarify this I thought the only reason you make a trip to the MOT station is to use their rolling road, to test your brakes, as you are going for the IVA, MOT is not required?
4)Is the annual MOT still needed after IVA or is it after three years?

Regards AXLE

[flyerncle]

To and from the MOT is as far as you should be going without tax and reg plates.
I think Frankie means if poss you should be driving it (legally) as much as possible to test it prior to SVA/IVA and the use of trade plates in this situation I think should be ok,it is not possible to obtain them without motor trade insurance so you would be covered under that policy to drive an unregistered vehicle as most car dealers do.
I think we are getting confused as to the use of brake rollers to test the Roadster brakes.
All you will get is an idea of brake force per wheel in kgs,as previously suggested newer ATL stations may have the facility to give the weight of the axles at the time of test(Tecalamit Rollers do)Also gives idea of total weight of car.
I may be wrong, but,the IVA/SVA is not an MOT test and is a test to a standard for road use regarding compliance with RTA,sharp edges,lighting,noise and the like and is specific to the individual vehicle, hence the name.
Confused ? Me too!

[snapper]

flyerncle, I have to try and make things clear here as this thread is getting out of hand with input from people that just don't know.
First of you cannot book an MOT on a chassis number that has not been registered yet and is not in the MOT/DVLA computer system, it's illegal.
If you did book an MOT on a chassis number made up by you and it was accepted then you would have to MOT it every year from then and not in 3 years time after IVA, also there is a very good chance they will set the wrong emissions lumbering you with them for the life of the vehicle.
You can insure the vehicle on a chassis number made up by you as long as it complies with DVLA VIN number pattern and drive it to IVA, and back unless VOSA declare the vehicle unroadworthy.
DVLA do not allow you to drive to the build up inspection so you should trailer it.

If you play about with the rules prepaired to get burned, it could take all the fun out of passing IVA with months of DVLA wrangling, it can be bad enough as it is without trying to shortcut the proper process, and if they get wind of it you may never get the car properly registered.

[Tatey]

So bottom line is befriend someone with a car trailer and you'll be sorted?

[HandyAndy]

So bottom line is befriend someone with a car trailer and you'll be sorted?
that seems the safest route to avoid any hassle.
right...... anyone got a car trailer? :D ;)

andy

[Tatey]

Well you could build one...

http://www.circletrack.com/howto/78218_building_race_car_trailer_part_1/index.html

[HandyAndy]

haven,t even got a tow bar on my van:D
nice link tho.:)
andy

[flyerncle]

Snapper, I have no intention to mislead anybody nor get into a whole dialog of who is right or wrong.
I have been a tester and AE for more years than I care to remember and can only state what I have been told when presented with an unregisteded vehicle and also done for many years ie MOt testing cars that are not registered mainly Jap imports. They are not registered with DVLA and put on VOSA system at the time of test creating a new record.
A trip to LVLO with test, insurance,SVA etc gets you a reg no and cert to purchase number plates also needed as you have no log book.

I totally agree the this needs to be put to bed once and for all and everybody should act cautiously and the safest way is a trailer or maybe tow it there.
The problem with forum's is that everybody know's a little, and knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I am going to VOSA soon and will ask the question and post straight from the horses mouth .

[axle]

Thanks , for clearing that up!

[RAYLEE29]

MMM, clear as mud to me! I thought you had to mot it on chassis number before the iva,
I will ask the garage next door to work when im next in to see if they know
or perhaps there is someone whos actually done it could give a definitive answer to put this to bed once and for all.
So come on whos done it ? step up take a bow and help us understand
thanks
Ray:)

[Bonzo]

Hi Ray

Yes, the system is about as clear as mud. :confused:

I don't think that any individuals are responsible for the situation. Just seems to be the system in general.

Having spent hours & hours reading both the DVLA & VOSA websites, information into the full IVA process is non existent. :(

Even at local level. Speak to VOSA in person, different staff will give you conflicting advice.
The same is true if you speak to staff at your local DVLA office. :confused:

[Bonzo]

Hi to all that have been following this thread.

Unable to bear the unclear situation any longer I telephoned my local IVA test centre.

I was lucky enough to be able to speak to the IVA examiner in person.
Exeptionaly pleasant to talk to & was super helpful. :)

It was explained that I was building an ameteur built kit car & using a single donor as a source of parts.

I raised the subject of MOT.
It transpires that a MOT is not required in order to carry out the IVA test but due to the age of the donor it will require an MOT before it can be registered with the local DVLA

I was advised that as an MOT will be required at some stage it would be best to have an MOT before the IVA.
Purely to know that the car meets the required MOT Standard. As a bonus you will know that the brakes & emissions are corectly set up.

The car can be driven to the IVA provided it is insured.

I would assume that any exemption from MOT during the first 3 years is limited to an all new build with a current registration mark.

Q or age related plate will require an MOT test prior to registration.

Me ole mucker Flyerncle was right & I was wrong :o

This information was direct from the person who will ultimately be doing my IVA test.
I'll be following his advice to the letter. Finish car, MOT,IVA, Register at my local DVLA, Then enjoy :D

I will trailer to IVA though. A 250 mile round trip in an unknown entity will do my brain in :eek:

I hope this helps some of you.

[flyerncle]

"Me ole mucker Flyerncle was right & I was wrong "

I will settle for once in my life ! There is no right or wrong with government departments, rules are meant to be interpreted by the individual (read as "bent) to suit themselves.Some may call it progress,others may see the truth nobody really knows whats happening untill its happened and then they will realise its not working and balls it up even more .Great Britain, not any more!

Dont let it worry you Ronnie :)

[snapper]

I raised the subject of MOT.
It transpires that a MOT is not required in order to carry out the IVA test but due to the age of the donor it will require an MOT before it can be registered with the local DVLA

The whole point of SVA/IVA is to asses the vehicle for safety and road worthyness, the MOT is not as stringent as IVA and cover the same but less points.
The IVA examiner does not know what he is talking about.
DVLA decied the date of the MOT based on the cars date of first registration, not build date.
VOSA and DVLA have some overlap but are two different organisations, VOSA is a German company owned Agency.

I stand by what is said, but no inference about flyerncle my earlier reply was definately not pointed towards him but to the way the thread was going. So flyerncle please accept my appologies if you thought i was having a personal pop at you, i was not, i pride myself on not getting personal on forums so sorry once again.

The new IVA rules are realy not that different from the old SVA ones and only some of the tests have changed (and the cost).
The MOT chestnut has been bantered around for years on SVA forum related questions and obviously still an issue.
My view is, don't go for MOT until told to do so.
I will also ask VOSA and DVLA, i may use some Police contacts to ask some pertenant questions on the lines of " if i stop a kit car, newly registered"

[flyerncle]

No need for appologies,no offence taken, thats why we are all on here like minded soles looking for the Holy Grail (IVA'D Roadster).

Regards All

[Bonzo]

The IVA examiner does not know what he is talking about.



I'll not be relaying that message to my IVA examiner when I present my car for its inspection :eek: :D :D

On a serious note. I have raised the subject of MOT in my letter to my local DVLA office.

At the end of the day, I must act in accordance with the advice that I am given at a local level.

[snapper]

DVLA update

Just got of the phone to DVLA....

MOT after registration, 3 years from date of first registration not date of IVA pass, this applies to all vehicles tested under the new IVA regulatons, i.e Q, age related, new registration.

Advise from DVLA, do not MOT before IVA or indeed after IVA unless instructed to do so or until 3 years has passed, to do otherwise will only confuse the computer based system causing you, and only you, trouble in the future.

The person i spoke to is very well aware of the confusion and also intimated that VOSA would look at the registration number as the age of the vehicle and give advise on that when the advise should be given on the age of the vehicle, i.e. first registration. They also said that as far as they are aware the new IVA regulations has not affected the registration process as DVLA sees it.

Now this was only a phone call so i have emailed the DVLA with the same question i put to them over the phone.
When i get a reply in writing i will post it as an attachment on this Forum and the others that i regularly visit.

[snapper]

At the end of the day, I must act in accordance with the advice that I am given at a local level.

Beware the "Local level" DVLA, bless them, but they do not make policy and you may not be talking to an expert.

I work in Government and am fully aware that the local area office may not be fully briefed on current legislation or at least may not administer it to current regulations.

Go to the top, get that in writing, present that to the local area office.

[Bonzo]

Cheers for the leg work Snapper :)

The situation is becoming a lot clearer in my head ;)

It is such a pitty that DVLA do not put some clear & accurate information on thier website.
I know that the numbers of people wishing to register a kit car is only a very small minority but that is no excuse for lack of available information.

I would be more than happy to pay a small fee for a DVLA, kit car information pack. :)

[flyerncle]

The old chesnut liabilty rears its ugly government head "We never said that was right" nothing definative as usual.
It always appears that people who pen the legislation dont know butt from elbow and if they carry out consultation who on earth are they consulting.

[snapper]

June Which Kit is also trying to get to the bottom of this problem and did indeed publish similar conclusions on age as refered to by the start of this thread.
They have asked Paul Jepson to do some legwork and will report next month.
I now have a confirmation of emailed information request from DVLA saying they will reply within 3 days, I take that to mean 3 working days from tomorrow so hope for some sort of conclusion by Wednesday.

[fabbyglass]

Use the engine that comes free with the sierra unless the donor sierra was fitted and registered with an R1 motor lurking under the bonnet...going to be issues with IVA otherwise.

[flyerncle]

Devil if you do and devil if you don't.
Duty of disclosure comes to mind and what are the penaltys when the stuff hits the fan after something goes wrong,do it right do it legally.

Dare I say this returning to the question of MOT,It is possible to mot a new car ie 1 year old and all that will happen is the MOT system will tell you that the car is too early to be tested
and will not stop you from testing it and makes a mockery of the system,and I would suppose after reading the posts it would generate a request every year thereafter when taxing the vehicle for a current MOT cert.
I agree this needs expert clarification and hope this can be done and with luck VOSA may conclude the draft proposal regarding the IVA (we all live in hope).

[fabbyglass]

Rules and and that jazz.......:rolleyes:

[snapper]

Confusion reigns, well no suprise there then.
DVLA have emailed me back sying "VOSA are responsible for the MOT tests"
We all new that but who decides when?
Phoned up DVLA again and spent 1/2 an hour telling the person on the line things they did not know about Kit Built vehicles and registration.

The verbal conclusion is that Kit built vehicles when they have passed IVA are considered new at first registration, this should be stated on the V5.

When you get your V11 tax reminder it will state on that what documentation you need to have to complete the taxing of your vehicle, if it does not ask for an MOT at this stage, you don't need one to tax the car.

After IVA you do not need an MoT to tax the car first time, they do the tax using the MAC as proof of road worthyness.

My next port of call is the policy department of DVLA, which i will write to today or Monday. The question will be a general one about MOT after Kit built IVA with perhaps a question about the different registrations and the date of first registration.
It will not go into any detail at this stage as i don't want to raise any issues and flag it up as a problem that could cause a kneejerk reaction.

My current conclusion is that No MOT is needed before or immediately after IVA until the tax renewal reminder notice V11 says you need an MOT.

The main stumbling block is the date of first registration and the date of manufacture, when registering for the first time you must make sure that the local office are aware that it is a Kit Built vehicle and not a Kit modified vehicle.
This is where (probably) the local office interpretation can cause us problems.

[flyerncle]

Rules/Jazz is for old farts,Gimme rock anyday of the week!

[fabbyglass]

spot of punk does the trick

[flyerncle]

How sad is this! Classic FM when I am driving (sometimes).

[fabbyglass]

If you think classic fm is bad you should hear bbc radio cornwall...:confused: nothing bad ever happens down here and the sun always shines blah blah....ummm so why is it chucking it down with rain :confused:

[flyerncle]

Government propaganda and bullshat,gets people to go there,spend lots on fuel etc, more tax revenue. Simple ! (not you Mark).

[snapper]

Next episode in the saga....
After an email from VOSA which said, I quote, An MOT will be required 3 years after registration for a Q plate and a new registration and an MOT 3 years after year of the age related plate, in my case 1986, this seemed wrong (yet again) so i rang them up.
Nothing has changed since SVA so the IVA requires an MOT in all cases 3 years from first registration.
The DVLA however can request an MOT earlier, usualy in the case of a Q plate as VOSA have nothing whatsoever to do with Q reg cars.
Whilst on the phone to VOSA i enquired how i would know when an MOT was due, the answer was, when you try and tax the car the DVLA will ask for an MOT, this could delay you if you ask for tax and then find you need an MOT.
VOSA hold a database of all UK registered cars showing when they need an MOT and what criterior/emissions are required.
So whilst on the phone i asked about my Y reg age related car which passed SVA and was registered July 08, the car will require an MOT in July 2011.

To conclude i asked whether DVLA local office decide on MOT dates and VOSA said that it was decided at DVLA HQ Swansea.
There is only one more place to go for clarity and that is DVLA Policies, I don't want to shake the wasps nest so will let it lie.
Do not MOT before IVA.
If you want to find out when your MOT is due, phone VOSA.

[flyerncle]

"Next episode in the saga"

More like a comedy but clearer than before,thanks for the effort Snapper.

[Bonzo]

You are a brave man, I mean, delving into the dark & murky world of red tape !! :eek:

At least I have a plan of attack that is clear in my own mind now :)

That said, by the time my build is ready for testing..............It will probably be called a XYZ inspection !! & Built to the draft 99/A/1b guidelines :confused: :D