Things that would have made the book better

[alga]

First of all, thanks Chris for all the hard work designing the roadster and putting the book together. It's great. However, I have caught myself looking for certain curious pieces of information that aren't in the book.

First of all, a general draft of a complete roadster would be useful. What are the overall dimensions? What are the front and rear track and wheelbase? This info would be useful, e.g., when planning parking space for the roadster in a cramped garage.

Then, it would be interesting to know what to expect in terms of performance, if we go 100% by the book. What was the prototype's curb weight? What sort of acceleration it had with a standard Pinto (0-62 mph and 1/4 mile)?

In the book there's a lot of background info on various processes such as MIG welding, GRP, painwork, etc. I think at least minimal advice on metalworking technology would be very useful. E.g., recently there's been a thread on this forum about methods for cutting tubes. What is a sane choice if one has just the tools suggested in the book -- an angle grinder and a hacksaw? Would one cut all the pipes manually, or would a handheld angle grinder with a cutting disk be good enough? Then, what about the 24 suspension brackets? That's the best way to fabricate them? What about the 10 mm rear upright plates?

There are mentions of alternative donors, but what are the actual dimensions of relevant parts and assemblies, e.g. Sierra diff and rear driveshafts? There is some information about making GRP nosecone and wings, but what are the usual dimensions for these things? How high does the nosecone usually stick out above the upper rails?

Finally, the roadster has been designed in a CAD, so software readable drawings could theoretically be made available for people to download, explore and modify. Frankly, that's what I expected to find here when I first learned about this forum. In my field, computer programming, it's customary for a book author or publisher to offer all the code examples given in a book as a download (sometimes a CD-ROM tacked to the back cover), so that people do not have to type the examples from paper. What has happened here instead is that people started recreating CAD drawings from paper and then sharing them on the forum.

Luckily, thanks to this forum, most of these questions and ideas can be addressed long after the book has gone to press, and some of them already have.

[AshG]

all the questions that you ask used to be on the forum until last week. there was a major problem and nearly 2 years of information has been lost. there are cad files available for download

http://www.haynesroadster.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/cad.zip

[RAYLEE29]

wasnt cadfael a bald priest?
sorry had to be done again :D

[aaronbassett]

if any one has a problem with any thing there are many members on here to get there hands wet and may be oily

[davidimurray]

wasnt cadfael a bald priest?
sorry had to be done again :D

I just spat my beer out when I read that!

[alga]

all the questions that you ask used to be on the forum until last week.

Must have been buried somewhere deep. I've spent many an evening browsing the forum history, but haven't seen answers to about half of them.

there are cad files available for download

http://www.haynesroadster.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/cad.zip

These are the ones recreated by someone on the forum, aren't they?

[Bonzo]

Whilst I understand the angle that you are coming from. You need to understand the constraints put on the Author by the publisher.

Anyone who has read the original Ron Champoin book will probably agree that Chris Gibbs has done a far superior job. ;)

With the limited page space that Chris had, it would have been impossible for him to include detailed drawings & dimensions of every possible alternative donor.

Performance figures would have been impractical due to the large number of diff ratio & engine combinations.

The dry weight of the book car is stated somewhere in the book, Kerb weights are dictated by the formula that is applied by the government inspecting engineers, in the uk, Ministry of transport, IVA regulations.

Chris has done a splendid job & gives this forum his full support :)

Do folk remember how comprehensive Haynes workshop manuals used to be compared with the new style titles that are now more or less, service guides ;)

EDIT

I think the keyword of the books title is quite relevant " On a budget "

This book has been published at a remarkably low price.

What sort of price would a more comprehensive publication command !!??

Not uncommon to pay several hundred pounds for technical publications.

Just food for thought !!

[Cyberbeej]

I agree with you bonzo, the book is well put together with relation to publishment cost and constraints,

just a few parts that would have made a difference, like dimensions for grp etc.

[flyerncle]

Last paragraph of Ronnie's post hit's the nail squarely, it would be a fifty pound book and the concept of a budget vehicle is completely out the garage door.
Interesting post though Alga !

[TQ_uk]

First of all, thanks Chris for all the hard work designing the roadster and putting the book together. It's great. However, I have caught myself looking for certain curious pieces of information that aren't in the book.

First of all, a general draft of a complete roadster would be useful. What are the overall dimensions? What are the front and rear track and wheelbase? This info would be useful, e.g., when planning parking space for the roadster in a cramped garage.

Then, it would be interesting to know what to expect in terms of performance, if we go 100% by the book. What was the prototype's curb weight? What sort of acceleration it had with a standard Pinto (0-62 mph and 1/4 mile)?

In the book there's a lot of background info on various processes such as MIG welding, GRP, painwork, etc. I think at least minimal advice on metalworking technology would be very useful. E.g., recently there's been a thread on this forum about methods for cutting tubes. What is a sane choice if one has just the tools suggested in the book -- an angle grinder and a hacksaw? Would one cut all the pipes manually, or would a handheld angle grinder with a cutting disk be good enough? Then, what about the 24 suspension brackets? That's the best way to fabricate them? What about the 10 mm rear upright plates?

There are mentions of alternative donors, but what are the actual dimensions of relevant parts and assemblies, e.g. Sierra diff and rear driveshafts? There is some information about making GRP nosecone and wings, but what are the usual dimensions for these things? How high does the nosecone usually stick out above the upper rails?

Finally, the roadster has been designed in a CAD, so software readable drawings could theoretically be made available for people to download, explore and modify. Frankly, that's what I expected to find here when I first learned about this forum. In my field, computer programming, it's customary for a book author or publisher to offer all the code examples given in a book as a download (sometimes a CD-ROM tacked to the back cover), so that people do not have to type the examples from paper. What has happened here instead is that people started recreating CAD drawings from paper and then sharing them on the forum.

Luckily, thanks to this forum, most of these questions and ideas can be addressed long after the book has gone to press, and some of them already have.

Hi all, first post (having just had the postman drop off my copy of the book today :) )

Just want to echo alga's point of some curious omissions, I realise the old forum was hacked & some of this info was floating about, but mainly (after a brief skim through) can't see an obvious side/front/top view of finished vehicle displaying dimensions i.e wheelbase, overall length, track, width, height etc.
I would've thought was kind of essential for the majority of builders who may be looking to build in the confines of a 1 car lock up.

Is this info available? (I've downloaded the CAD files but they've not helped :( )

Otherwise it all looks very comprehensive & the mind's running riot already!
:D

[Chris Gibbs]

Well.

I'll try to sort some of this out ;)

The dimensions of the car. Hmmmm I can't remember someone asked and I went out and measured the car but I don't have it these days, maybe whoever asked noted them down or someone with a completed car (or nearly complete) could measure it? The track is the same as the Sierra at 1468mm so the overall width will be about 1800ish.

Performance? with the 1.8 pinto at 86bhp and a weight of about 550kg it was no ball of fire but plenty fast enough for normal road use, I'd say 0-60 in about 6 seconds and a top speed (limited by the aerodynamics) about 125mph.

Metal working, it's difficult to pitch the amount of information to complete beginners without insulting the intelligence of the more experienced. I decided to take a middle course. I think that to take the reader through a complete metalworking course was beyond the scope of the book and much of the work is pretty straight forward, it's a matter of knowing when to stop. I'm sure nobody wanted to trawl through six paragraphs describing the drilling of a hole! The way I saw it was that it was likely that an experienced metalworker would make the plates from the drawings and someone with no experience would have the parts laser cut. Now there would be a lot of people who fell between these two types and I tried to give enough information to let each individual decide which path to take. I personally could easily have made all the plates but if I were building another car I'd ask John at 3ge to cut me the plates because of the time involved.

There wasn't space in the book to detail all the alternative donor parts. Each individual part would need to be analysed and Ideally a car built using the parts. There's a domino effect of changing parts too, a change of upright means different geometry, different wishbones and possibly different pick up points. Suspension should really be designed from the wheels inward, although compromises can be made, the suspension should be designed before the chassis to optomise the pick up points. In essence the book would need another 2 chapters for each donor.

The forum was always intended to be run along side the book and I made the decision to help anyone who decided to use a different donor on here for the mutual benefit of everyone. In hindsight I could have provided basic dimensions for the GRP parts but honestly I don't know of any builders that are making their own glass parts, Fabby's are too nice!

With regard to the CAD drawings, Haynes see them as comercially sensitive, and I have to say that I agree. I understand about the computer analogy but what these computer authors are supplying are essentially tools to enable end product, the Roadster drawings are the product. The chassis has been redrawn by book purchasers and I don't have a problem with that but If electronic versions had been available, and knowing the workings of the internet, I don't think we'd have sold as many books and I give a lot of money to charity or something.....;)

As I said it was always the intention to run this forum as back up for the book and we did have most of the stuff pinned down. Unfortunately we were the victims of a childish, cowardly attack but we're much better placed now, with so many builders, to answer anything that comes up (fingers crossed!)

Oh, and welcome :D

Cheers

chris :)

What would really have improved the book would have been naked ladies, each one more naked than the last......

[dooner02]

cheers for drawings and "pics" ash ahem. i agree about the amount of info. chris, besides if you don't know how to cut metal, should you really be building a car. doesn't mean you can't learn though there are plenty of cheap courses out there and there is always da interrweb...

[baz-r]

one thing i do find real odd it there is no datum point and refrence points to check over your build of the chassis as you build and to check everything afters
we could use say the rear side of br11 and center line for all the front rear placements
that wonky chassis i got of the bay gave me right brain pain!

[fabbyglass]

Always work from the centre line and If I was you I would set the front section as your datum and work things back from that....if nowt else you will end up with a car that has equal wheelbase (a lot don't).