Sierra rear wheel bearing housings, how easy to make?

[mr henderson]

Amongst the many kit car related tasks that I've never actually needed to do is the handling of the bearing housings from a Sierra, the bits that are bolted to the Haynes uprights.

I am involved in another project that would need to use something like that, but possibly a bit different in various dimensions.

Would such an item be difficult to make?

[AshG]

not to difficult. you turn the part on the lathe first leaving a flange on the bottom then mill the flange into the shape and stud pattern you want.

i would ask this though. why would you go to the trouble of making them im sure you can just use/modify sierra ones.

i believe the cars like the 3series and omega have similar items so with a bit of research you may find something off the shelf so to speak

[mr henderson]

i would ask this though. why would you go to the trouble of making them im sure you can just use/modify sierra ones.



Thanks for the advice, the reason for not using Sierra units is that the bearings I may need to use may well be a different size (to fit different driveshafts, but to still fit the various readily available Haynes uprights) maybe. All a bit up in the air at the moment. But even f I use billet machined aluminium uprights I would still need some kind of bearing housing

[Bonzo]

I have been looking at this particular problem for a while.

The Sierra hub assembly could be replicated to take a different size bearing. it is quite a simple hub.

The cost is likely to be prohibitive, as you say they would most likely need to be machined from billet with the added expense of having the bearing housings machined once the hub is made.

You may remember me posting a while back about plans for a rear/mid engined 7'ish car.

Some of the early drawings are taking shape. We have done some R&D on the rear hubs. Looking at the driveshaft issue, personally I think the most cost effective solution would be a hybrid driveshaft.

Donor engines CV joint on one end & donors hub joint on the other end.

[mr henderson]

The cost is likely to be prohibitive, as you say they would most likely need to be machined from billet with the added expense of having the bearing housings machined once the hub is made.



How about having the flange laser cut, then a cylindrical bearing housing turned on the outside diameter, welded to the flange, then the inside diameter machined for the bearing? A bit long winded, but it would cut down on the size of the stock needed, and save a bit of turning too.

I realise there is a cost element to this, but surely supplies of Sierra units aren't going to last forever, and most other makes of car are either front wheel drive or the bearings are pressed straight into the trailing arms (such as BMW)

[RAYLEE29]

For a rear engined car using a frontwheel drive transmission why not just use the uprights from the donor with suitable wishbones and a tie rod instead of the steering rack
its not a new idea its been done before I think transformer do/did it on the stratos replicas and didnt gtm do it with a mini based kit?
Ray

[Bonzo]

How about having the flange laser cut, then a cylindrical bearing housing turned on the outside diameter, welded to the flange, then the inside diameter machined for the bearing? A bit long winded, but it would cut down on the size of the stock needed, and save a bit of turning too.

I hadn't thought of that method of constructing a rear hub :o

That would certainly open up the way to have the parts made from steel & greatly reducing costs.

So far I have not looked into the industrial bearing route, there is a vast array of flange mouning bearing units available.
They would definately be able to withstand the loads placed on them but ultimately might prove to be unsuitable for automotive apps.

I must say, it is refreshing to have an interesting topic to bounce some ideas about. :)

[mr henderson]

For a rear engined car using a frontwheel drive transmission why not just use the uprights from the donor with suitable wishbones and a tie rod instead of the steering rack
its not a new idea its been done before I think transformer do/did it on the stratos replicas and didnt gtm do it with a mini based kit?
Ray

Thanks for the suggestion, but it's too restrictive in this case, and the donor uprights are completely unsuitable. Then there's the problem of the brakes, of course, need cable operated handbrake.

If this can be solved then it will in fact be easier than using any of the donor front suspension (which possibility I did investigate at some length.

[mr henderson]

So far I have not looked into the industrial bearing route, there is a vast array of flange mouning bearing units available.


Now I must admit I hadn't thought of that, although I knew that such things were available, I just didn't apply that knowledge to this particular situation. Thanks, I will look into that.

As regards longevity, it may well be that there is a flange which is near enough to be machined to fit the original type wheel bearing if there isn't one that exactly matches it.

[Bonzo]

For a rear engined car using a frontwheel drive transmission why not just use the uprights from the donor with suitable wishbones and a tie rod instead of the steering rack
its not a new idea its been done before I think transformer do/did it on the stratos replicas and didnt gtm do it with a mini based kit?
Ray

I mulled over the use of the front wheel drive donors uprights & it was the handbrake issue that stuck in my mind :confused:

I am sure that there is probably a hydraulic solution there somewhere but to be honest I do not posess that sort of knowledge.

Had serious visions of using Citroen BX/Xantia front uprights :eek:

It was about then that I thought it was about time I stopped trying to think :D :D

[AshG]

if its just a case of getting bearings that will fit the sierra bearing carrier and a different size driveshaft im sure you can get a different bearing. i use a company called LBK. they have never faild to get me bearings in the size i wanted.

if thats not the case i would be looking at machining/casting an upright with bearing carrier ways machined in the hub material effectivly making it all a single piece that the bearing races are pressed into.

[Bonzo]

I have used a company called Bearing Services LTD ( BSL ltd )

They are a national chain & more often than not come up trumphs for obscure bearings.

As Ash has said, it is well woth measuring the OD & length of a bearing, then finding out if one with a smaller or larger ID is available.

Folk probably know this but the numbers etched onto the face of a bearing usually contain the type & size of the bearing

Bearing supplyers are also a good source for oil & grease seals, again the numbers on them are often the type & size

[georgenewman1]

could you not just modiey the upright to accomodate the bearing hub of your choice, i made my own uprights out of plate instead of pipe and the seem to work alrite

[mr henderson]

could you not just modiey the upright to accomodate the bearing hub of your choice, i made my own uprights out of plate instead of pipe and the seem to work alrite

Not too sure what you mean there. Do you mean to use plate thick enough so that it could be bored to a press fit for the bearing itself? It might need to be quite thick for that.

Depends on how wide the bearing is (anyone know how wide a Sierra bearing (for instance) is?) but I suppose a piece of really thick plate could be machined to the OD of the bearing and four bolt holes. Then it could be bolted to an upright.

[flyerncle]

Just one thing to be aware of if you make your own hubs,bearing preload.
It will be built into the Sierra hubs,BSL and the likes do bearing carriers but they are possibly meant for radial loads and not axial/sideloads as in motor vehicles.
Ronnie for your own sanity dont think anythng Citroen !( trust me I have been there,1970 till present day).

I have replaced one pair of rear bearings but took no notice of thrust faces etc but I will measure them and post dimensions if you need them.

[Bonzo]

Your not wrong there Paul ;)
Wasted enough of my life working on Citroens :o

We have more or less decided to go the VW/Audi route if at all possible. Probably a good 12 -18 months away from that stage though :)

Personally I would opt for some form of hybrid driveshaft but never say never & all that ;)

[mr henderson]

I think the idea of using Sierra outer end components is great, for just one or two cars. If one is thinking of rather more, though, like I am, then solving this problem now, rather than when the supply of Sierra bits dries up, is a good idea.

Also, if a way can be found of making/getting bolt on bearing housings can be found, then it will mean being able to use a complete driveshaft assembly from the donor vehicle, rather than having to get specials made. And that has got to be a good thing.

[Bonzo]

I can certainly see where you are coming from on that one.

An off the shelf / easy to fabricate solution would be ideal.

I have a small foundry near me, they have a small - medium capacity output & will undertake small batch work.

It my prove cost effective to have a small batch of castings made !!
A fair bit of money could be saved if you can provide them with the casting patterns, this is where a good deal of the initial outlay is spent.

Terrill Bros (http://www.castmetalsfederation.com/ourmembers.asp?action=profile&cid=149)

[mr henderson]

It my prove cost effective to have a small batch of castings made !!
A fair bit of money could be saved if you can provide them with the casting patterns, this is where a good deal of the initial outlay is spent.



I expect I could probably knock something up without too much difficulty. I hadn't thought of having the castings made, but it's obvious when you think about it.

I think probably the next step is to find out what size bearings my donor would require, then design something around them. I would need to consult whoever was going to do the machining, find out how much extra material they would need onthe pattern to allow for machining the resulting casting to finished size.

[flyerncle]

Maybe not a waste Ronnie,but just enough of a learning curve to put you off for life.

Must agree on the VW/Audi theory,just repaired an auto box on an old A4 and it was tiny probably half the length of manual box,only drawback is the electrics to go with it all stuffed in the floor.

[HandyAndy]

I expect I could probably knock something up without too much difficulty.

i did that 20yrs ago, the result is now at uni & costing me a fortune :D :D

sorry, i couldn,t resist, please forgive me, had a tough weekend.:o

i,ll get my coat:o

andy

[Bonzo]

This is quite a cool thread :cool:

So nice to have a place to bounce ideas about & a little humour never hurts :D

Yes, the bearing size required would be a great starting point.

It's no good, I am going to have to kick my Nephews ass to get his finger out & produce some more advanced drawings.

Best complete the Roadster first though :o

I bet at least the Audi's wiring is colour coded. Unlike the Citroen !!?? Yellow, Green, Brown & Blue.
All bundled up loose & chucked behind the dash :eek:

[flyerncle]

The coloured sleeves at each end (faded ) were the key to Frog wiring.
VAG is more civilised.
Leave CAN BUS and multiplex well alone.
Early Bosch EFI wiring was all black with the smallest numbers on each wire you have ever seen in your life.

[Talonmotorsport]

all ally sierra rear hub bearing carrier www.drdracing.co.uk £40 each