It nearly runs - errrr - So close

[Spikehaus]

Gents

As promised and tattooed onto my brain by AshG and HandyAndy, I filmed the first start up today. Its was very cold, but luckily in the workshop it was about 8 degrees.

The day started with some running around desperately trying to use PTFE tape to seal all the fuel leaks.

Secondly the coil pulse was not activating the fuel pump relay, or the purple relay was not tripping, so I managed to bypass it with a wire to get some pressure into the system. I am not sure if the fuel return should be continuous? but nothing seems to be coming back to the tank?

Anyway, managed to get the v6 beast turning, but could not get it to run. Any ideas where to go now? -

I was thinking about the heater in the old car, i simply bypassed it with a pipe top to bottom, should this or can it be capped off?

Will check the fuel system next week by disconnecting from the fuel distributor and seeing how much fuel is pumped.

I have uploaded the link onto year two below!

[AshG]

if its injection it should be returning all the time. just put 12v on the fuel pump. do you know how many bar the fuel pump produces? i would guess the regulator on the fuel rail is either 2.5 or 3 bar

by pass is fine. i capped mine off but not sure if it would cause a problem on a v6. certainly wouldnt stop it starting

[Spikehaus]

I'm using brand new FSE Sytec (Bosch 0580254911) Ford Sierra 2.8i 4X4 Injection Fuel bullet pump with a FSE Sytec Universal Fuel Injection Pump Pre Filter.

[twinturbo]

Are the plugs wet?

Try lifting the air plate a little by hand.

TT

[Spikehaus]

It was brand new plugs, but I will check this, cheers

[AshG]

i think he ment is there fuel on the plugs although i could be wrong.

has it got an auto choke?

[twinturbo]

If it's the 2.8 MFi in his pics then it will not have a choke..


TBH... I hate K-Jet. I spent 3 hrs trying to revive my m8's MK2 golf 16V after a 6 month layup!!


Does the 2.8 have the cold start valve, that can be rigged to spray a little fuel in if the main injectors are not firing..

Other than that and lifting the air plate to stimulate fuel preasure I don't remember much about the 2.8 MFi set up.

ask on www.xrstyle.co.uk/forums

TT

[Spikehaus]

Yes, it does have a cold start valve, how can this be rigged to spray fuel? It sounds like most of my problems are fuel related? That's all the bits I replaced, so have a good few tips to try again on Thursday. Cheers Guys

[AshG]

little tip buy a can of easy start. take off the air filter and spray it in the inlet as you try and start it. if its just cold then that should get you going. my knowledge of the ford v6 lumps is vague at best. the best way to approach it is you know it worked fine before so it should mechanically be ok. chances are its something stupid stopping it from going.

check all the sensors to make sure nothing has been moved check the ht leads are on the correct way round and you dizzy isnt damp. then check you have spark. if you have fuel and its not firing i would expect the plugs to be wet with petrol when you take them out.

if you have got spark plugs that are sparking but are damp with fuel and it wont go then it could be timing. if you have no fuel go over the fuel system. remember you only need fuel spark and air so go through each, one by one.

[twinturbo]

Cold start is just a ver crude injector, shoudl have two wires one being earht other +12v...

I can't remember if it's switched on the posetive or negative. But anyway. Get it to squirt some fuel by electrifying it manualy and somone turning over the engine.

IF it does not fire then...

Check the firing order..

check the dizzy is not 180 degrees out ( if it's been removed ) as this is a common one on the V6 .

TT

[flyerncle]

It may have a warm up regulator as fitted to Bosch mechanical injection system's,large alloy block with two fuel pipes in it and if the old brain serves me correctly there is a second injector for the cold start.
I have known the mixture screw come out as people fiddle with them and this stops the engine running also,3mm screw in tube on body of control unit.

[Spikehaus]

IF RUNS!!!!!!!!!!! YIPPIE, WHAT A GREAT XMAS AND NEW YEAR GIFT!

With special thanks to all the useful tips from everyone here and especially twinturbo who directed me to a car specific forum where I was provided with car specific details on the Bosch Injection K-jet System!

Dad and I where in the workshop and both had a spare hour towards the end of the day, so we decided to use our time wisely and check the timing of the dizzy along with the firing order. This all check out in conjunction to the cylinder positions.

We where both positive that the problem must be fuel related as it was so near to starting. Once again we bypassed the fuel pump relay to get the system up to pressure. On Xmas eve I had stripped the cold start injector and this was injecting while the starter motor was running. I also has system pressure but no fuel return.

With the extra pair of hands we started to turn the engine on the starter while I pushed the paddle by hand in the hope to force some fuel into the injectors. It was on the last attempt before we both got carbon monoxide poisoning! Any longer and we would have had to open the RSD. Suddenly I heard splashes in the tank from the fuel return..

Spurred on by this and for one last ditch effort for the day, and some extra pushes on the throttle for good luck it came alive!!! Yippie!!!

If only I had my camera to hand... Still, the new relay turned up today so will film it for you next time.

One again thanks and good luck for the new year.

[Bonzo]

Great news Nick :) :cool:

You must be very relieved to have the engine running, well done mate :)

[HandyAndy]

nice one Nick, well done mate :cool:

look forward to the video:)

cheers
andy

[twinturbo]

Excelent, Glad to be of help and glad my fellow XR enthusiasts were able to point you to a happy conclusion.

I know the joy of a running engine after a head scratcher. My first ever engine change was on br Brother in laws sierra. We had never tried a big job, we had never seen the replacement run!.. After a days work it did not fire.. But next morning whilst he was at work we gave it big effort and shre fired.. I ran all the way up and down the street waving at the neighbours who had shown intrest whilst walking past... Bro was so chuffed when I collected him from work in his own car. ( it was his first at 17, cost him £1400 and cracked a piston after 2 months (not his fault)... £450 for the replacement :eek: )

TT

[Spikehaus]

At the start of my build 17 months ago I had done no more than nearly pour water in the oil inlet rather than the washer jet and changed a tyre for a girl at work I was trying to impress. The whole build has really caught my attention and giving me a few milestones to be proud of. We all share each others high points that help us motivate or builds. Soon be taking it for the first test run!

[AshG]

At the start of my build 17 months ago I had done no more than nearly pour water in the oil inlet rather than the washer jet and changed a tyre for a girl at work I was trying to impress. The whole build has really caught my attention and giving me a few milestones to be proud of. We all share each others high points that help us motivate or builds. Soon be taking it for the first test run!


spike well done mate. shows that your noggin is still working. quite fun this car lark when it all finally comes together. next step test drive

[HandyAndy]

Nick, your build photo blog has been an inspiration to my own build, and meeting you at Stoneleigh last year was a proving point for a few of us to get our cars finished.....hope i can still keep to our promise of getting our cars to the show :eek:

Just realised only 16 weeks to go, give or take a day or two :eek:

well done on your build mate.

cheers
andy

[Davey]

At the start of my build 17 months ago I had done no more than nearly pour water in the oil inlet rather than the washer jet and changed a tyre for a girl at work I was trying to impress. The whole build has really caught my attention and giving me a few milestones to be proud of. We all share each others high points that help us motivate or builds. Soon be taking it for the first test run!

Nick I'm impressed! I'm a qualified mechanic, the first job I worked on when I started my apprenticeship was removing the engine and gearbox from a brand new MGBGT for a siezed speedo pinion. I'm rapidly approaching 50, I've worked in heavy industry, I've worked as a welder/fabricator, I have certs for MIG, TIG and MMA welding on mild steel, stainless steel, aluminium and cast iron ranging across all three processes. I've worked in a large factory in the development shop fabbing up first off from drawings to prove their design for production. I've worked for ABRO rebuilding engines, gearboxes and overhauling very complex hydraulic systems but for you to go from having changed a wheel to building a car from scratch and making it run in just seventeen months is outstanding!

I salute you sir:) Well done.

D.

[twinturbo]

yep well done

I have been doing things to cars since I was 17 ( 18 years ago ) nowt much phases me these days.

Hope you now have the bug too, just don't end up where I am with 4 part finished projects :D excludnign the unstarted Roadster!!

TT

[Spikehaus]

Videos uploaded at last...cheers gents

[HandyAndy]

where where??? wanna see the vids :D

andy

found them yeehhhaaa nice one nick , well done mate

[Tatey]

Where?! Share the joy Andy?

[HandyAndy]

Where?! Share the joy Andy?

click on the Spikehaus,s lower flicker blog pics & it,ll open the photo page, there a re 3 pics showing a "play" button like on a tv remote control.

cheers
andy

[Spikehaus]

Also on utube dudes, just search for Haynes Roadster and you will get AshG and my vids

[AshG]

well done mate always love to see an engine spring to life.

if you let it idle and warm up you should be able to rev it without killing it. well done for getting it running and putting the vids up. sounds like it is going to be a bit of a monster

[Spikehaus]

Thanks Ash, I was wondering why that was happening.....Dad thinks its because their is no back pressure from the exhaust? Should it not run normally all the time? If it was your dad to day car you would want to start it and drive off?

[HandyAndy]

i think its a bit of both Nick, needs to warm up & with lack of back pressure & maybe drawing too much air can cause it to idle roughly, i,m sure it,ll be right when you get the exhausts on & it warms up fully.

i used to have a 2.8i capri & it ran rough when a sensor went in the air mixture do da, but was a cheap fix & it sorted it.

cheers
andy

[AshG]

from what i can see its doing what would normally happen if the choke hadn't cut in.

warm it up and see if it will rev if not then there is a bit more of a problem.



i used to have a 2.8i capri & it ran rough when a sensor went in the air mixture do da, but was a cheap fix & it sorted it.

cheers
andy

andy you are really showing your age now :D

[HandyAndy]

andy you are really showing your age now

:o :o yeah i know... tho the capri 2.8i was my first brand new car that i bought...... i was 18 yrs old at the time...... just returned home from the Falklands war........ yes Ash....the year was 1982 :eek:

picture the scene..... a spotty 18yr old youff walks into a Ford main dealer with cash in pocket ....salesman didn,t believe i was serious at first until i showed him the cash :D

bought it & collected it within 24hrs or no deal was my instructions to the salesman, was only home for 6 weeks so wanted as much time with it as poss.

cheers
the old git
andy

[Spikehaus]

I have a new set of HT leads on order that should help with the misfire. Also found a second hand warm up regulator on ebay so hope that helps. Wish I had that Capri Andy, its the same engine in the 280. The gearbox was from a 280 Capri

[HandyAndy]

my 2.8i was the original early release car, the first batch only had a 4 speed gearbox, and check cloth interior. be worth a small fortune now ...ho hum:rolleyes:

cheers
the old andy :D

[Davey]

:o :o yeah i know... tho the capri 2.8i was my first brand new car that i bought...... i was 18 yrs old at the time...... just returned home from the Falklands war........ yes Ash....the year was 1982 :eek:

picture the scene..... a spotty 18yr old youff walks into a Ford main dealer with cash in pocket ....salesman didn,t believe i was serious at first until i showed him the cash :D

bought it & collected it within 24hrs or no deal was my instructions to the salesman, was only home for 6 weeks so wanted as much time with it as poss.

cheers
the old git
andy

You make me feel so old, 1982 I was 21 with two children and a wife. Think I had an Austin A40 around that time too: eek:

D.

[twinturbo]

have you done the stroboscopic timing?

TT

[AshG]

1982 was 2 years before i had even had my first dump lol :D

sipike if i was anywhere near close i would come and give you a hand. isn't there anyone close than go pass an eye over it?

[HandyAndy]

1982 was 2 years before i had even had my first dump lol :D


what???:eek: i was ducking & diving for cover from stray misslies even before you were a twinkle in your fathers eyes??? now you make me feel really old Ash, ya young whippasnappa:D

:o andy

[Bonzo]

Quite happy to pop up over a weekend & have a session with you Nick :) :)

[Bonzo]

what???:eek: i was ducking & diving for cover from stray misslies even before you were a twinkle in your fathers eyes???

andy

I hope they wern't missiles being fired by my Nephews Rapier missile battery :o :o

[HandyAndy]

I hope they wern't missiles being fired by my Nephews Rapier missile battery :o :o

i thought i was safe as i was on the Uganda which was the hospital ship..... thing is... we had a huge red cross on the side of the ship like a target to aim for :eek: :D

andy

[twinturbo]

were you ever Hijacked.... Like this thread :D :D

TT


p.s.

As above, has the strobe timing been checked. and is the advance working.

I would try and give it some back preasure and also look for any vacuum leaks.. It should realy rev and retun to idle even when stone cold.

TT

[twinturbo]

Again my knowledge of K-Jet is basic...

Does it have an auxiliary air device, does a similar job to an idle speed control valve.

TT