Steering rack size

[VIZA]

Quick Question guys
page 76 "...the steering bodymust be shortened ... 533mm between the balljoints centres of the track rods"
Original mk 2 steering rack size?

Thanks

Victor

[mopple]

Should be 581 mm. Found this in LCB forums some time ago.

[alga]

I found on the web it's around 56 cm...

[VIZA]

If 581mm truth 581-533(book) = 48mm of cut.
distance between sterring holder holes centers 258mm(book)
258+48 = 306mm(stock)?
Someone can measure distance between clamps of stock rack?

[twinturbo]

Does it say must be shortend or is it "Idealy"

TT

[TSM Locost]

Just measured my MK2 rack 260mm.

Happy New Year to All.

[axle]

Hi
I have got to this part of the built, got my extentsion arms from MK and it is to size of spec in the book. I am totally lost as how much the steering rack should be shortend?

Please help!!!!!

[spud69]

Hi
I have got to this part of the built, got my extentsion arms from MK and it is to size of spec in the book. I am totally lost as how much the steering rack should be shortend?

Please help!!!!!

Ideally Axle the book says to shorten the steering rack for perfect geometry but this is a major job and needs to be carried out professionally. The difference it makes will be pretty minor, my car is the original rack length and drives and behaves impeccably - except in this bloody snow.

Builders own choice but its not really necessary.

AndrewH

[twinturbo]

As above, does it actualy need shortend or will it provide IVA acceptable geometry as IS.

The book says

"Although the ford escort rack is very close to the ideal size, for absolute precision modifications to the rack are required"

It does not say it must be shortend.

I think we need clarification on this.

I will try PMing Chris

TT

[HandyAndy]

the MKII escort rack is fine without needing to be shortened.....

BUT

if you make the rack extensions as per book dimensions then they will be incorrect & make your wheels both steer outwards, in fact undriveable.

I,m using a std MKII escort with extensions purchased from Rally Design, sorry don,t have a link but the parts are available on their website.

the rack is new, cost £65 & the extensions are new, cost £25.

hope this helps.

cheers
andy:)

[axle]

Hi
It does need to be shortended, both the front wheels look like as if they are toeing out at angle of 20 degree.!!!!!!!!!!
Yes hope we get some clarification on this from some kind members!!

[axle]

Hi Andy
I think we are getting somewhere, yes you are right without modification the car will be undriveable. Could you please tell me what is the totall lenght of the rack either with or without the extentsion.

[HandyAndy]

Hi Andy
I think we are getting somewhere, yes you are right without modification the car will be undriveable. Could you please tell me what is the totall lenght of the rack either with or without the extentsion.

hang on a mo, i,ll go and measure my rack / extensions for you, 2 tics

andy

[HandyAndy]

here goes....

total length between the center of the threads of the track rod ends is

135 cm

this includes the rack.... rack extensions & track rod ends....

the actual length of the rack extensions on their own is 13 cm.

sorry i can,t give the measurement of each individual part but its all put together on my car, so taking into account some final adjustment of tracking, the figure of 135 cm is about right....

as said it is a std escort mkII rack with the 13cm rack extensions fitted then connected to the track rod ends........hope that makes sense:o :)

if i may say.... i think folk are getting confused when talking about shortening the rack as i think this is meant to imply the SIERRA donor,s rack when mentioned in the book......use the escort rack & you,ll be fine, but don,t make the extensions to the spec as stated in the book.

hope this helps.

cheers
andy:)

[axle]

Hi Andy
This is great, I am sure i will be able to sort something now.
Thanks 10000000000000000000000000............

One thing still a mistery I am using the escort rack, the suspension still in the air could this be the reason???????????

[HandyAndy]

no prob.
hope my above post made some sense :o :confused: :D

Axle.... are you using extensions made from the book dimensions? if so they are too long, with the escort rack the extensions only need to be 13cm in length

cheers
andy

[HandyAndy]

oops...

just read the whole thread again...

Axle... the rack extensions supplied by MK are to the book spec which makes them too long ;)

either shorten them to 13 cm or buy extensions from Rally design & you,ll be sorted.

the extensions shown in the book on page 76 diagram 5.36 is incorrect.
the main body of the extension needs to be 13cm .

cheers
andy

[twinturbo]

I think you will find,

The reason Chris has mentioned the shortening of the rack is so that the inner ball joint is in line with the suspension pivots. thus ensuring a constant distnace between the rack ball and the steering arm. This will negate any Bump steer. The slight difference will creatr a bit of bump but may be acceptable to the IVA.


Thats my take on it anyway.

You would not shorten the rack because your extensions were too long.

TT

[twinturbo]

if i may say.... i think folk are getting confused when talking about shortening the rack as i think this is meant to imply the SIERRA donor,s rack when mentioned in the book

Quote From book.

Athough the ESCORT steering rack is very close to the ideal.........


TT

[twinturbo]

In fact look at diagram 5.34 p 75

It shows the ball in line with the pivots with 533mm between ball joint centers.

:D

TT

[Bonzo]

Hi Axle.

If you have the book spec rack extensions you'll find that they will need shortening by approximately 15mm each ( Rack extensions ) & give or take a coulple of mm.

On my build both front wheels were still toeing out & that was after the engine, box & all the running gear fitted ( Basicaly Car on its wheels )

My extensions had been drilled quite deep & was no problem to tap a bit more thread in there ;)

My rack is an original Ford unit ( Escort Mk2 )

If memory serves me right : The Rally Design, alloy rack extensions are OK as is.

Perhaps Ash would confirm this :)

The standard Escort Mk2 rack, does not need to be shortend unless you are chasing perfection ................As Chris has said in the book " It is very close to the ideal length " :)

[axle]

Hi Ronnie
Thanks for clearing that up.

Many thanks axle

[HandyAndy]

i think the main reason for the confusion is due to the dimensions of the rack extensions in the book are incorrect. :rolleyes: :)

cheers
andy

[alga]

I think the dimensions in the book are incorrect because they assume the shortened Escort rack, with 533 mm between the ball joints. If the unmodified Escort rack is 56 cm, this would give the 3 cm extra. Sounds plausible?

[spud69]

I believe that's correct Alga, i had the same with mine and had to shorten the extensions...

[mark]

I think the dimensions in the book are incorrect because they assume the shortened Escort rack, with 533 mm between the ball joints. If the unmodified Escort rack is 56 cm, this would give the 3 cm extra. Sounds plausible?

This is the reason, if you are using a standard rack as most will be you need shorter extensions

I did the same thing and made book spec ones and the wheels were well out!

As HandyAndy says the ali rally design extensions are perfect and a fair bit lighter than a book spec one made from steel

[Chris Gibbs]

Just to clear this up.

Hopefully.

The dimension of 533 between the inside track rod pivots in figure 5.34 is an absolute ideal. This will require the rack to be shortened but it's not really necessary, the prototype has a standard rack and excellent handling.

It also has rack extentions to the dimensions in the book. Which is a bit of a puzzler.

I've had many people comment that the extensions are too long, but I know the prototype has a 2.9 turns Escort rack from Rally Design and book length extensions. So I'm at a loss :confused:

In short, I would use the standard rack and alter the extensions length to suit.

Cheers

Chris :)

[twinturbo]

Thanks Chris

TT

[axle]

Hi
As suggested by Andy & Ronnie I have shortend the extension by 13mm and it seems it is sorted. Many thanks guys.


One last Q do I need to put in the locking nut on the steering rack as well as the on the track rod ends?



Just to clear this up.

Hopefully.

The dimension of 533 between the inside track rod pivots in figure 5.34 is an absolute ideal. This will require the rack to be shortened but it's not really necessary, the prototype has a standard rack and excellent handling.

It also has rack extentions to the dimensions in the book. Which is a bit of a puzzler.

I've had many people comment that the extensions are too long, but I know the prototype has a 2.9 turns Escort rack from Rally Design and book length extensions. So I'm at a loss :confused:

In short, I would use the standard rack and alter the extensions length to suit.

Cheers

Chris :)

[HandyAndy]

glad you got it sorted Axle,

i only have 1 locknut on each end of the rack....between the rack thread going into the extension bar..

one last thing.... as you have shortened the extensions just make sure that the threads of the rack & TRE go fully into the extension bar, ....what i mean is...make sure you get a good "bite" of thread when all connected.

cheers
andy

[axle]

Hi Andy

Thanks for your input, I certainly would not have it sorted without you. Another Q to educate me, if the thread part of the rack is going to be fully locked into the extention part, should not the locking nut be on the track rod ends?

Cheers again

[dogwood]

I got locking nuts both sides of the extension

[twinturbo]

I definatly think you need lock nuts on the extension and the TRE.

Without the lock nut on the TRE the Extension + Rach end will spin and could alter the track, or at worst wind out and drop off.

I say 2 IMO..

TT

[axle]

Hi
Thanks everone for your input.

[HandyAndy]

guess i need to go & adjust my nuts then :D

good point TT, cheers:cool:

cheers
andy

[twinturbo]

No probs..

TT

[mark]

Not that there is any harm in having a nut either side of the extension but surely if the tre is done up tight into the extension and then screwed onto the rack then a locknut is butted up to that, then nothing can move?

If you did use one on both ends there must be the same chance that the locknut would come loose compared to the tre coming loose from the extension without a locknut?

Totally agree that you need a locknut on rack side to lock adjustment but i always thought the extension in effect creates a long tre that is tight and never moves. Then everything is adjusted on the rack side

Not saying im correct or anyone is wrong its just my take on it :D

I was gonna put a drop of loctite on the tre to extension for good measure then just use locknut on the rack threads as normal

Maybe somebody with knowledge of how westfield and the likes do it to clear up wether we need to fit them or not

[spud69]

I think you're spot on there Mark, we are worrying too much and going stir crazy with this cold spell we're all going through......;)

My extensions are screwed on tight onto the tre then a lock nut the other side of the extension which really just keeps everything tight and steering rigid, Its done 4k and has been fine. If something did start to loosen you would notice straight away on the steering and toe in/out on the wheels.

Have a good weekend all......We are getting loads more snow up here at the mo......:D

AndyH

[HandyAndy]

well, i went & looked at my car ( at saturn premises) & to be honest there doesn,t seem enough free thread left for me to put a half nut at either end of the extension ,

so if the TRE is attached to the front upright... then the extenson screwed tight to the TRE then the lock nut tight up to the extension then nothing can undo, can it? :confused:

cheers
andy

ps.... spud....i,ve just got home... nearly an hour to do 11 miles :eek: :rolleyes:

[spud69]

Well done, would have been quicker with the dogs. Just about to leave now so should be fun...:cool:

[twinturbo]

Yes I guess that makes sense if the TRE Abuts the Extension Tightly, I was visualising in my mind and thought there woudl be spare thread at the TRE END.

As mentioned by others. I would probably be inclined to add threadlock just incase.

Only an hour to do 11 miles... It took me an hour to do 4 miles just before christmas. A journey that's usualy 10 minuets.

TT