Can i make this mod to my chassis.

[LeonN]

first please let me say sorry for my awful little pic. i am not good with computer drawing relay. it might show.

i have swung my engine into the chassis today and the sump if fowling on the bottom rail of my engine bay. my book is not with me but it is the opposing rail to BR9. i was hoping to weld in another tube and cut the first out as in pic A apposed to pic B witch is standard. marrying it in with the chassis platte under the suspension mount and the engine mount. much like the way i have seen people rase the top of the bulkhead for taller gearboxes.

is this safe and does it make sense?

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6756/schassismob.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/i/schassismob.jpg/)

[HandyAndy]

Hi Leon,
not totally sure i understand which tube you need to alter ?

which tube would you alter?

cheers
andy

[LeonN]

thanks andy. 42 people it took before you point out i am not making sense.

hear is a pic of my bottom rails. i have added an arrow at the rail that needs a chop.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9896/img0046arrow.th.jpg (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/img0046arrow.jpg/)

the pic in the first post is that section viewed from above.

hope it helps.

[HandyAndy]

Hi Leon,
wasn,t a case of you not making sense mate, i just needed to know for sure which tube is causing you a problem before offering my opinion ;)

I,m not a structural engineer but that rail BR8 is in my opinion a very important part of the chassis as it creates the triangulated strength to the front of the chassis.......look where it joins the BR1 tube at the front end.... right upon the area that holds the suspension mounts.

If at all possible i would suggest at altering the sump to fit the chassis rather than changing the chassis to fit the sump, can you do that?

Or make engine mounts to raise the height of the engine , it must only be a matter of a few mm ??
if doing this creates a problem above the engine for the bonnet then i,d rather raise the bonnet than alter the chassis.

Sorry if this is not what you hope to hear,

cheers
andy:)

[LeonN]

that is fare enough. unfortunately the sump hits the side of the rail rather than the top. so i need to take a bit of the bottom of my sump and some off the side. keeping the volume in the sump is going to be a bit tuff but if it must be worked out then work it out i will.

tar man.

[dogwood]

I must agree with Andy.
Not sure why your sump should foul the rail.

But it would not be a good idea to cut this rail.
If you have no option then I would put a full length tube beside it,
back to the bulkhead tube

David

[AshG]

you can do what you want but you will need to box it in with 3mm plate top and botom to get the strength back. what engine is it and what part is going to foul? do you have any pictures as i find it hard to see

[LeonN]

m42 engion. i will go take a pic now

[LeonN]

ok so hear is a pic of the problem. not the best but was hard to get an angel that made any sense.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2482/photo0122p.th.jpg (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/photo0122p.jpg/)

the sump you can see is hitting the rail and the engine still needs to go about 8mm to the right.

i dont know about tacking width out of the sump as well as tacking a little off the bottom. if i need to keep the volume the same then i will need to weld a box on the other side of the sump.

[HandyAndy]

what about raising the engine so it clears the bottom rail?
you could always put a nice bonnet bulge in the bonnet to increase the clearance needed above the engine??

cheers
andy

[LeonN]

that will put the top of the block 16 inches above the top rails:eek: without any sump mods that is :confused: :confused: :confused:

wot clearence is needed betwean the sump and schassis?

[HandyAndy]

16 inches or 16 cms ?
i haven,t got my car at home with me but i think the std bonnet sits 17 cms above the top rail at the bulkhead end if my my memory serves me correctly, my own engine is only the 1.8cvh, but it sits level with the bottom chassis rail & still fits below a std bonnet, in fact with approx 3 cm spare.

hmmmm head scratching time :confused:

cheers
andy

[dogwood]

Just going back to the chassis mod.

This is what I would do.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p212/muddypaws4x4/dsc4943b.jpg

[LeonN]

dogwood is on my wave length. that is the pic i shuld of drawn first. thank you.

andy. inches is right. i was looking at a 12 inch tall scuttle panel witch just clears the rocker cover to a custom nose cone work will make for me. the bonnet bump for the intake manifold to sit in will again be 12 inch tall. this setup i can see over. just. lifting the sump above the bottom rails will add 4 inch to this. though i can take 25mm or 1 inch of the bottom of the sump but that is still a 15 inch high bonnet and i am not that tall. ????????

[HandyAndy]

wow, that is a tall engine :eek:

in that case i,d go with Dogwoods suggestion, just ensure you plate & fully weld the extra tube in place at the front area where it meets BR1, the engine mounts welded to BR8 & BR1 will help too.

good luck with fitting that engine :cool:

cheers
andy

[LeonN]

ok. i will get on to that tomorrow..

thanks for your best wishes. i feel like i need it today lol

[alga]

What about fitting a similar tube to the opposite side of the chassis so that the mechanical properties of the chassis are symmetric?

[LeonN]

i dont know if i would like to cut the other side as it is not needed. i may then end up making the un cut side stiffer and the cut side the same as it was before.

i may be off the mark?

[graeme.webb1@ntlworld.com]

i dont know if i would like to cut the other side as it is not needed. i may then end up making the un cut side stiffer and the cut side the same as it was before.

i may be off the mark?

Keep us informed about the mods Leon as I am fitting the BMW M40 motor initially but fancy the idea if the twin cam once all IVA bother is done.

[flyerncle]

Leon,ask Spud about bonnet height. I could be wrong but I am fairly certain that the mounting flange on the bonnet that sits on the chassis rails on his car was cut off by about 25mm to fit the nosecone and scuttle as it fits to the chassis instead of the 25x25mm box section on page 99 fig 8.16 that sits on tr1/2 and tr8.

[LeonN]

i dont get wot you mean i am sorry.
:o

[flyerncle]

If you buy a Saturn/Triton scuttle they fit direct to the chassis rails and if you made a book spec scuttle it would be possibly 25mm higher than the fibreglass one.On Spuds car he cut the flange off to get the bonnet at the right height to fit the scuttle,so if you had mounted a scuttle on the 25x25 as suggested on the page as I posted before the scuttle and bonnet will be 25 mm higher and you will not have to cut the bonnet flange where it sits on the chassis rails.
Does that make more sense ?

[LeonN]

that makes perfect sense. thanks. i mailed spud and kind of got the idea of it from him as well. i have been looking into this a bit moor and i think an e36 sump is going to solve all my problems. just need to find one that is not £70 now. and make a new oil pickup. not beyond me i dont think:rolleyes: so i guess will be buying one of them to but i will try first.

thanks for the help chaps. (are there any chapesses on hear)

[flyerncle]

Nice one !All the best one and all.

[Muffin]

thanks for the help chaps. (are there any chapesses on hear)

Well I'm a chapesse...sort of.:D


Woof

[GraemeWebb]

ok so hear is a pic of the problem. not the best but was hard to get an angel that made any sense.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2482/photo0122p.th.jpg (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/photo0122p.jpg/)

the sump you can see is hitting the rail and the engine still needs to go about 8mm to the right.

i dont know about tacking width out of the sump as well as tacking a little off the bottom. if i need to keep the volume the same then i will need to weld a box on the other side of the sump.

Just done a dummy first fit of the engine and box. Sump will have to be modded. Clearence is tight on the side rail and hight of the motor too high so I will have to chop a piece out.

Can someone help with the dimmension from the engine/gbox flange to the top engine bay upper chassis rail when using a Pinto/ Zetec etc.

As an assides the the top of rocker cove to side chassis rails id 230 mm with the sump 25 mm below the bottom rail. A tall motor.

[GraemeWebb]

Just done a dummy first fit of the engine and box. Sump will have to be modded. Clearence is tight on the side rail and hight of the motor too high so I will have to chop a piece out.

Can someone help with the dimmension from the engine/gbox flange to the top engine bay upper chassis rail when using a Pinto/ Zetec etc.

As an assides the the top of rocker cove to side chassis rails id 230 mm with the sump 25 mm below the bottom rail. A tall motor.

Can anyone help with the dimension from the engine/gbox flange to the top engine bay upper chassis rail when using a Pinto/ Zetec etc.
I would like to get the Beemer engine in the same place if posible.

[alga]

Right. To fit the Zetec + Type 9 so the thermostat housing (on the back of the head) clears TR8 the bell housing flange must be ~10 cm into the engine bay. However then the gearstick hits TT5 in neutral. So I would say without modifying the chassis the range of adjustment is 3-8 cm into the engine bay with Type 9.

[GraemeWebb]

Right. To fit the Zetec + Type 9 so the thermostat housing (on the back of the head) clears TR8 the bell housing flange must be ~10 cm into the engine bay. However then the gearstick hits TT5 in neutral. So I would say without modifying the chassis the range of adjustment is 3-8 cm into the engine bay with Type 9.

Thanks for that Albert. The E36 motor will definitely need the sump modifying to get the motor low enough to move it that far back. I need to measure up but I think the gear lever arms need extending as well. More work!!

[LeonN]

Ok so. I toted the e36 sump to my e30 engion. If you youse BMW go for e36 I can see this hapening a bit. Plan chop 25mm off it and with it mounted acordingley. I have it sat far enough forward that it clears the top tube at he back of the engin bay but this is by no way ideal. The easeyesy way to pull it back I can see is choping mabe 200mm out of the top rail and replacing it above. I haven't desided though yet. Looking at the gearbox mounts I might be limeted haw far back I can pull the engion my the with of the transmition tunnel.