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geeman
4th February 2010, 05:04 PM
Hi,
i have again been thinking of another change but this time to rid myself of the 1.8 cvh i currently have fitted and put in a 1.8 or 2l zetec from a mondeo. Now i know there are numerous guides on the net for this or eq, but the plan is for me to buy a old mondeo for around 200 that runs fine, and then use that engine and wiring and ecu from the mondeo i plan on buying. I dont want to go down the bike carb route. I wondered if i would need to change any mounts as currently i have a cvh with a type 9 fitted, as far as i was aware, the setec mounts are almost identical, but are they spaced the same as the cvh and the same distance from the gearbox or will i have to fabricate new mount. Also what mods,if any, are needed to bolt onto a type 9 gbox. I also wondered in the mondeo (pre immobiliser/pats) is the engine loom and ecu detachable from the main loom. Is switching my current cvh to a zetec sensible? I should also point out my original cvh failed an mot in the sierra i got it from due to exhaust emmisions and will likely need a full rebuild before i put the car through the iva, thats why id rather go staright to a zetec, even if it means q reg.

thanks:)

Bonzo
4th February 2010, 05:47 PM
Hi Geeman
If you decide to go the Zetec route, don't overlook the Escort as a possible engine donor.
You should be able to find plenty of Mk5 Escorts about that are fitted with the 1.8 litre Zetec, possibly a bit cheaper than a Mondeo too !!:)

I was given a K plate Escort fitted with a 1.8 Zetec & this is pre PATS.

My Plan at the moment is to use the Zetec engine & save my Redtop engine for a later date.

I am also going to have a crack at making my own inlet phlenum chamber & try to run the engine with the stock ECU.
Chosen this route purely for the challange & realize that this is probably the best power option avalable ;)

Personally, I would fabricate new engine mounting arms .... One CVH one will fit & the other won't.

If memory serves me right, on the gearbox side of things. CVH Starter, Clutch plate, Clutch cover & CVH engines sandwich/dust plate ( Plate between engine & box ) Finally, a Capri clutch release bearing & spiggot bearing for the Zetec flywheel . Part numbers escape me at the moment :rolleyes:

The type 9 box will bolt straight to the Zetec engine.

I hope this is of some use :)

geeman
4th February 2010, 05:59 PM
Thanks!

will look for escorts too now:) . one thing i forgot to ask is about the exhaust manifold. Will i need to fab my own one or is there any other options i could use. i have already fabricated my cvh exhaust system, but i guess ill have to rethink it if i go down the zetec route. Also on the zetec what should i be doing about things like the alternator ...

(i should also mention i know next to nothing about ford engines:o )

Tatey
4th February 2010, 06:40 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ford-mondeo-MK1-engine_W0QQitemZ320483616254QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item4a9e4fe5fe

Just spotted this on a thread on LCB, hopefully its some help to you.

Bonzo
4th February 2010, 06:47 PM
Not too sure but I don't think the CVH exhaust manifold will fit the Zetec head :(

You should be able to seperate the Zetec engine loom complete with ECU plug without too much trouble.

Or you can do what I did Chop through the loom in the engine bay & kid yourself that you can shorten & re-join them later ...... Just to find that most of the wires in that huge bundle share the same colour codes :eek: :o

After several days of research at least I know where each wire goes !!??

Alternator could be re-located or replaced by the much smaller Nippon-Denso unit ( My choice )

On the subject of an age related plate ..... In theory, if enough parts have been used from the donor vehicle, it is still possible to get an age related plate if the donors engine is not used.
That said, it will probalbly be down to you to convince your local DVLA office that this is the case. ( Probably going to cop a bit of flack for this statement :rolleyes: )

gingea1pom
4th February 2010, 06:56 PM
Hijack hijack hijack sorry.

Could you not ditch the ECU and run a MegaJolt and bike carbs or am I talking out of me ar**

Hijack over, normal service resumed.

Cheers Ginge

teun
4th February 2010, 07:05 PM
Iam also goging the zetec 1.8L route. Iam going to use the original ecu pre pats. And i did order one of these:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LOCOST-VINDICATOR-SEVEN-ZETEC-421-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-KIT_W0QQitemZ260544767431QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3ca9ada5c7
Iam waiting for the postman i hope i can tell you monday if it will fit.:eek:

gingea1pom
4th February 2010, 07:07 PM
Iam also goging the zetec 1.8L route. Iam going to use the original ecu pre pats. And i did order one of these:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LOCOST-VINDICATOR-SEVEN-ZETEC-421-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-KIT_W0QQitemZ260544767431QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3ca9ada5c7
Iam waiting for the postman i hope i can tell you monday if it will fit.:eek:

Let us all know can you, I must admit is was tempted.

Bonzo
4th February 2010, 07:12 PM
I did order one of these:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LOCOST-VINDICATOR-SEVEN-ZETEC-421-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-KIT_W0QQitemZ260544767431QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3ca9ada5c7
Iam waiting for the postman i hope i can tell you monday if it will fit.:eek:


Very spooky ...... Me too :D :D :D

Bonzo
4th February 2010, 07:23 PM
Hijack hijack hijack sorry.

Could you not ditch the ECU and run a MegaJolt and bike carbs or am I talking out of me ar**

Hijack over, normal service resumed.

Cheers Ginge

Hi Ginge

No reason as to why not :)

Megajolt & carbs would probably see a bit more power squeezed out of the engine as would Megasquirt & throttle bodies ;)

I have both of these available to use ..... It's just that I have read so much info claiming that it is not possible to use the stock ECU ( Not Roadster forum ) & having been for a ride in a Ford injection engined 7 running stock ECU & how it was done.
I decided to give it a propper crack, just out of interest & the challenge.

All bases covered if things go tits up though :D

AndyLockwood
4th February 2010, 08:01 PM
im also going to fit a 1.8 zetec (escort) and have the original 130 bhp pre pats ecu and loom. are throttle bodies or carbs the only option or is it possible to use the original inlet manifold?

cheers

Andy

Bonzo
4th February 2010, 08:23 PM
Hi Andy

The problem with the early alloy inlet manifold is that it sits very high, you would probably need a serious power bulge on one side of the bonnet :eek:

I looked at the possibility of using the later plastic manifold as that sits a lot lower, In my view, it'll cause problems with the routing of the steering shaft :rolleyes:

I have some plans for a custom manifold that I am going to try for starters :)

AndyLockwood
4th February 2010, 08:26 PM
Thats what i had heard. i have the plastic manifold and it sits pretty much flush with the cam cover its just whether it would impact on the line of the steering column.

Andy

teun
4th February 2010, 08:50 PM
i did order this one for the inlet problem:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RWD-KITCAR-FORD-ZETEC-2-0-1-8L-RACE-PLENUM-CHAMBER_W0QQitemZ320400527211QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item4a995c0f6 b
Hope it will be in the same box it did leave england last week i hope the postman will be at my door tomorow:D

AndyLockwood
4th February 2010, 09:03 PM
yea hope so! iv seen them on ebay and would be interested to know what you think about the quality of them.

.
cheers
Andy

Bonzo
4th February 2010, 09:05 PM
i did order this one for the inlet problem:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RWD-KITCAR-FORD-ZETEC-2-0-1-8L-RACE-PLENUM-CHAMBER_W0QQitemZ320400527211QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item4a995c0f6 b
Hope it will be in the same box it did leave england last week i hope the postman will be at my door tomorow:D

Hey Teun

That looks quite cool :cool: :)

I wonder if that one makes use of the stock idle control valve

Got plenty of alloy & an AC/DC tig welder & will fabricate something very similar.

Now that I have some Argon ...... The remainder of the alloy fabrication will be my next job :)

teun
4th February 2010, 09:10 PM
The moment it arived i can tell you if the stock idle control valve will fit hope i can tell you after the weekend.

alga
4th February 2010, 10:44 PM
Two days ago I paid the advance for a 1993 Mondeo Zetec 2.0 with ECU and loom, but sans alternator. My original plan was to go with a black top, MegaSquirt, standard intake for starters (LHD), but one guy offered me a good silver top for ~150 quid, so I took it.

I'm very enthusiastic about MegaSquirt and will definitely do it at some point, but at this stage saving these 200-300 sounds very appealing. I'm not a big fan of carbs, so I'm only considering EFI systems.

Ronnie, do you know what car was your Denso alternator from? What pulley do you plan to use with it, will the mounts fit?

teun
5th February 2010, 09:53 AM
Box just arrived the inlet is looking great the exhaust is just a big bag of pipes do not know where to start. I will try to put some pictures over here.

teun
5th February 2010, 03:41 PM
Hope this works:http://foto-uploaden.nl/img/5/u47qnmd.jpg

teun
5th February 2010, 03:45 PM
It works so here :http://foto-uploaden.nl/img/1/k1pcj62.jpg

AndyLockwood
5th February 2010, 03:54 PM
looks great does the throttle housing just bolt on and is there a places for the air inlet temperature sensor etc

cheers

Andy

Bonzo
6th February 2010, 09:05 AM
Hi Albert

The Nippon-Denso alternator I got was from a Daihatsu Sportrak/Fourtrak.

The same unit is fitted to many vehicles of the Daihatsu range, I have also seen this type of alternator on a number of other Jap cars ;)

It'll need a wider pulley & new mounts made up. Both should be quite simple to do :)

Heres a picture, as you can see, very compact & reasonably lightweight

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj266/Bonzoronnie/densoalternator001.jpg

Bonzo
6th February 2010, 09:14 AM
It works so here :http://foto-uploaden.nl/img/1/k1pcj62.jpg


That all looks good Teun :cool: :)

Out of interest.

Can I ask what the length of the tubes that go into the inlet manifold are ? :)

The reason I ask is that I will making one quite soon & have read that the length of these tubes does have an effect on final performance.

I have no idea of the science of the workings of an inlet Phlenum :o

les g
6th February 2010, 01:13 PM
Ronnie
dont stress too much
the issues with the length of inlet runners was more related to a carb set up
with fuel injection its not such an issue its more about getting the injector close and lined up to inlet port
and it was all about ringing the most out of an engine
ie few more torque/revs/bhp at 70zillion revs
cheers les g

teun
6th February 2010, 02:29 PM
Ronnie, i can take some more pictures if that would help.

alga
27th February 2010, 01:55 PM
I would like to use a triangular configuration for the auxiliary belt in order to avoid the need for guide pulleys, like this:
http://www.racelineonline.co.uk/Uploads/product_images/zetec_r_engine.jpg
I wonder how is the alternator mounted here? There are four holes in a rectangular configuration at the front part of the block exhaust side that seem to be ideal for the engine mount, but wouldn't the alternator foul them? Also, what is the alternator bracket fixed to on the pic? The holes for the belt cover on the front face of the block?

Big Vern
27th February 2010, 03:22 PM
Hi Alga,

The picture looks like a Dunnell engine or similar, they use a special sump casting to mount the alternator on.

The four bolt holes you refer to are an ideal engine mounting point.

I would mount the alternator under the front carb, above the oil filter. You can still drive it with a single belt and use the alternator as the belt tensioner so you won't need any extra pulley's plus you will have more 'wrap' of the belt around the crank pulley. There's only a 1/4 of the belt wrapping round the one in the picture so it's likely to slip when the alternator is loaded.:eek:

You'll need a silver top Zetec and an Escort water pump which turns the same direction as the crank pulley (Mondeo water pump turns opposite direction as it's driven off the back of the belt as are all black top zetecs)

HTH BV

Coozer
27th February 2010, 04:09 PM
I'm well into a Megasquirt conversion and I have had a 1.8 Escort engine for SVA and now have a 2003 ST170 VVT blacktop in.

Both these ran on carbs with Megajolt previously and the 1.8 with 2L cams gave 155bhp on the rollers. ST VVT engine gave 166 but was running well lean at WOT. Oh, and the 1.8 once setup gave me 40mpg. (but not on a track day!)

Points for the conversion, Escort sumps are lower than Mondeo ones. Escort water pump runs the right way for a triangular belt set up, all others need an idler... heres mine..
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/ridler123/General/P1010136.jpg

For my new EFI conversion I'm using early GSXR 750 TB's and am using the original Ford injector/fuel rail set up. I welded bosses into the manifold so they pintr down the port in the same position as original.
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/ridler123/General/P1010101.jpg

Only other thing required for mating to the type 9 is dohc or CVH Sierra starter motor.

This was my old carb manifold...
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/ridler123/General/P8020006.jpg

And with carbs running Megajolt (with an EDIS unit)
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/ridler123/General/P8020019.jpg

Have look round my blog, not comprehensive but some pics ad descriptions are there. If in doubt, ask!

Good luck,
Steve

martin62
27th February 2010, 08:49 PM
I'm well into a Megasquirt conversion and I have had a 1.8 Escort engine for SVA and now have a 2003 ST170 VVT blacktop in.

Both these ran on carbs with Megajolt previously and the 1.8 with 2L cams gave 155bhp on the rollers. ST VVT engine gave 166 but was running well lean at WOT. Oh, and the 1.8 once setup gave me 40mpg. (but not on a track day!)

Points for the conversion, Escort sumps are lower than Mondeo ones. Escort water pump runs the right way for a triangular belt set up, all others need an idler... heres mine..
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/ridler123/General/P1010136.jpg

For my new EFI conversion I'm using early GSXR 750 TB's and am using the original Ford injector/fuel rail set up. I welded bosses into the manifold so they pintr down the port in the same position as original.
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/ridler123/General/P1010101.jpg

Only other thing required for mating to the type 9 is dohc or CVH Sierra starter motor.

This was my old carb manifold...
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/ridler123/General/P8020006.jpg

And with carbs running Megajolt (with an EDIS unit)
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/ridler123/General/P8020019.jpg

Have look round my blog, not comprehensive but some pics ad descriptions are there. If in doubt, ask!

Good luck,
Steve

Hi just wondering if anyone can help.Due to a crazy registration system here in Ireland I might have to use a more modern engine with low emmisions.I am thinking of useing a 1.8 zetec with a cat.Can anyone give me advice of what system would work best as in low emmisions.Would a standard ecu and loom be an easy install or would a megajolt and edis4 be easier to set up and would it work with emmisions test

Big Vern
28th February 2010, 03:11 PM
Hi Martin,

Can you find out roughly how much road tax you'd have to pay with the xflo VS late model zetec?
I've heard the annual road tax for your car with the xflo could be as much as 2000:eek: :eek:

I would then talk to someone like emerald to see if they have an engine management that's suitable for use with a catalyst.
They would be abe to advise on what else you would need to make a cat friendly system.

I suspect the difference in reduced tax would more than pay for some thing like an emerald engine management and Jenvey throttle bodies or similar, fitted to a zetec:D

HTH BV