IVA results

[AshG]

what a long day.

She failed but the day was very positive and very friendly. there wasn't really any bad items so should only take a day or two to rectify. Andy the tester was a good laugh but went to the book by the letter which i must applaud. he knew what he was doing inside out and offered some really good advice.

here are the fail points

1.) Noise was 106db at 3700rpm

2.) i need a convex glass in the passenger mirror as the tester had to move his head too much to get the full range of view in that mirror

3.) my t pieces for the brake system were bolted to the chassis using riv nuts. this was deemed unacceptable as there is no locking device. i was advised to drill straight through the tube and use a bolt and nyloc nut on the end. all fixings/items on brake related systems must have a licking device!

4.) my roll bar back stays only had one bolt securing them. they either needed to be welded or have a minimum of two bolts.

5.) heat shrink and glued on rubber is deemed unacceptable for iva. any covering used must be equivalent to something a mass manufacturer would use. this meant i had to remove the heat shrink off the track rod ends which then failed (it was suggested that i used a caterham type item to cover these.)

6.) my universal joint on the steering was too close to the bulk head bearing meaning the collapsible mechanism wouldn't work adequately in an accident.

7.) speedo was out but was aloud to alter it at the time so it is now spot on.

8.) headlights were out but dogwood was aloud to align them for me whilst i sat in the car.

9.) side indicators failed. not because of their position it was because they were actually side markers which had the wrong e mark. the emark they had were for side markers not side indicators. the difference is that side markers have a lot narrower range of visibility than side indicators. you could see them from the back but the light emitted was not strong enough in the required direction.

think that was about it


good news bits

the shocks passed fine even without the rubber boots.

brakes were spot on

self centring was perfect (andy the tester commented that it was very very good for a 7!)

car weighed in at 620kg with full 25l tank and 115kg driver. take driver and fuel off and that's 480kg

emissions were fantastic infact miles under the limit.


Over the course of the day andy gave me lots of fantastic advice on passing the iva. i will do a full write up of all the tips in ckc. it was obvious he was really into his cars and really knew his stuff. all the points he made were fair and well deserved.



it was a good day out very educational and the car was bloody amazing beyond belief to drive. the whole journey there and back the car was totally spot on and didnt miss a single beat

and last of all i must say a really really really big thank you to dave (dogwood) he has slogged his guts out all week helping me and i must say i really couldn't have done it without him and my fail list would have been double the length. he certainly wont be buying any beers or food at stoneleigh this year!!

[dogwood]

Gosh Ash, you made me blush..:o

But you are more than welcolme. after all that's what mates are for.
Mind you could have done without the 6am alarm call..

[gingea1pom]

Ash,

In a funny sort of way nice one, if you know what I mean.

Is there a book distance for Item 6, only I am about to cut my column to make the extention.

When is the re-test?

It has been like loads of expectant fathers on here today!

Cheers Ginge

[Bonzo]

I expect you are feeling a little dissapointed Ash but not a bad result there :)

Like you say, it'll not take you long to sort those few things out.

Guess that's the touble with the new IVA .... Still a bit of an unknown quantity for many of us .... The new regs are well documented but the way they are being applied has yet to fully surface.

Got to say, well done mate :cool:

What a long day, bet you & David are knackered :eek:

[twinturbo]

1.) Noise was 106db at 3700rpm


Furry Muff



2.) i need a convex glass in the passenger mirror as the tester had to move his head too much to get the full range of view in that mirror



Let us know what u fit


3.) my t pieces for the brake system were bolted to the chassis using riv nuts. this was deemed unacceptable as there is no locking device. i was advised to drill straight through the tube and use a bolt and nyloc nut on the end. all fixings/items on brake related systems must have a licking device!


To Quote a meerkat, "SIMPLES"


4.) my roll bar back stays only had one bolt securing them. they either needed to be welded or have a minimum of two bolts.


Elaborate, is the book design out of spec now.



5.) heat shrink and glued on rubber is deemed unacceptable for iva. any covering used must be equivalent to something a mass manufacturer would use. this meant i had to remove the heat shrink off the track rod ends which then failed (it was suggested that i used a caterham type item to cover these.)


Oooohhh... Hmmm.. Let us know the fix!!



6.) my universal joint on the steering was too close to the bulk head bearing meaning the collapsible mechanism wouldn't work adequately in an accident.


Aaaarg... is this likly to be a problem for all of us?



7.) speedo was out but was aloud to alter it at the time so it is now spot on.


BING



8.) headlights were out but dogwood was aloud to align them for me whilst i sat in the car.


Bong


9.) side indicators failed. not because of their position it was because they had the wrong e mark. the emark they had were for side markers not side indicators. the difference is that side markers have a lot narrower range of visibility than side indicators. you could see them from the back but the light emitted was not strong enough in the required direction.


BASH ;)



the shocks passed fine even without the rubber boots.


Can you take a pick for us of this ;)

TT

[dogwood]

I'm sure Ash is feeling a little dispondent as well, but he really shouldn't.
The examiner commented more than once on the quality of his welding and build.
I think Ash should be proud (And I'm sure he is) of the way his car turned out.
The only real fail was the noise, which we couldn't try before the test.
The rest would have been almost a fix on the day.

[Bonzo]

I'm sure Ash is feeling a little dispondent as well, but he really shouldn't.
The examiner commented more than once on the quality of his welding and build.
I think Ash should be proud (And I'm sure he is) of the way his car turned out.
The only real fail was the noise, which we couldn't try before the test.
The rest would have been almost a fix on the day.


I agree with that David :)

Ash should be really proud of the Roadster that he has produced ..... It is a stunning example :cool:

If I can't have a first time pass, i'll take that list any day of the week ;)

[twinturbo]

It's shorter than the fail sheet from my Mondeo's MOT last month :D

TT

[AshG]

not really feeling down. i went in expecting to come away with a list of bits to do.

im just glad that i didnt fail on brakes emissions or self centering as they are all buggars to get correct with out the correct equipment

lets just say i now understand why the iva is more expensive than sva as it takes double the time to go over the car.

[HandyAndy]

Ash,

A HUGE well done mate, that is one good fail list , it sounds odd to say that but honestly mate you should give yourself & Dogwood a huge pat on the back.

Thanks for sharing the points of the fail, as it will help us all i,m sure, as there are a few points that we would all get caught out with ( brake T piece / steering column ).

again ... well done to you both .( You & David)

cheers
andy

[Big Vern]

Hi Ash,

I know you feel a little disappointed right now, it was xmas morning when you woke up today but now it's tea time, the bond movie's finished and you didn't get the pressie you really wanted.....:(
Have a Beer or two and that Curry with Dogwood and you'll soon cheer up when you realise how much you've achieved, especially since the Haynes roadster was designed to pass the SVA test!
I remember a year ago it looked like the IVA would kill most home built kit cars! So ending up with such a short and fixable fail list really isn't that bad (I'd be right chuffed if it was me:D ) all things considered, and a testiment to your skill and resourcefulness.
This has certainly given me more confidence in my project knowing that an IVA pass is achievable with this design.
What's also important is the value to the rest of us of your IVA experience has had. The first few people through the IVA are pioneers for the rest of us.

Many Thanks and Well Done!

[Bonzo]

lets just say i now understand why the iva is more expensive than sva as it takes double the time to go over the car.

Funny you should say that Ash, I was saying to the wife that if it is now an all day test, that'll explain the extra costs involved with the IVA test.

Hold you head up high, you done well :)

Lets ;) hope you get it sorted & on the road fro Detling :cool:

See you at Stoneleigh mate .... Dagging to see your Roadster in the flesh :)

[deezee]

As an avid follower of your build, it must be said that your experience will help some of the hundred other builders "adjust" :) their cars to make the IVA easier.

I'd love to hear what tweaks get done to help pass those few little niggles, plus its good to hear AdrianH's experience on the matter. All in all I think its an enormous achievement just to sit the IVA. I'd just like to echo the support and another WELL DONE, I'm positive you'll have it pass in no time.

[twinturbo]

I think, as every fail comes in... we should have a rectification thread/list.

That way peeps can see the fails and the fixes..

Perhaps Ash will start this off ;)

TT

[tkpm]

I think, as every fail comes in... we should have a rectification thread/list.

That way peeps can see the fails and the fixes..

Perhaps Ash will start this off ;)

TT

I think thats a good idea TT

[AshG]

i could write a book on it after today. i am going to do a full bore run down of the whole test in the mag. there is so much to cover that its going to take me a while to write it all up. my test was conducted to the letter and it is how all your tests will be conducted and there are a lot of things that you cant do now which used to slide through sva.

what i can say is the new test isnt harder in the way i perceived it to be the rules are quite fair when explained and put into context. one key thing i took away was about the trimming of projections. major car manufactures have to meet these regulations why should we be treated any differently? when covering a sharp edge you need to think how would ford/gm/nissan etc do that. if what you have done would look like a bodge on a production car you purchased new from a dealership then the likely hood of it being acceptable is low.

e.g my seatbelt brackets were covered with a bit of rubber glued and cable tied on. you wouldn't ever see that in a production car so its not going to pass. simple solution is production cars have proper covers over the seatbelt brackets find one in the breakers that fits your brackets correctly and use it.

i had a really good day regardless of pass or fail. what was better than anything was that if i do all the things on the fail sheet i know that my car will be spot on and unquestionable in its safety. all the guys that conduct these tests have my full respect. its a hard job, they want you to pass and will help you as much as they possibly can but if its not up to standard they will fail it, its not personal its about safety at the end of the day.

[drury318]

Hello Ash, I am really sorry to hear about your fail but I suppose you can at least see the finishing line is very near now. If that`s all he could find in a full day of looking then it`s quite a credit to you I think!
I am sure I am not alone in wondering about a few things though, such as how do you get your steering u/j further away from the bulkhead, mine is quite near but it is set by the lenghth of the shaft from the column?, can I also ask did you have anyway of "locking" the flexy brake pipes to the brackets? mine are put thru the bracket, then a normal nut secures them then the metal pipe goes on the end, is this not acceptable?
Dennis.

[flyerncle]

Considering the amount of parts on the car that it takes to put it together and the amount of work that has gone into it, you have done a fine job and the fail list is a minor set back but it would have been a nice one if it had passed first time.

WELL DONE ASH G

[Jimmyd]

I think that's a very good effort and guess you'll be retesting and on the road in no time.

J

[ozzy1]

Sorry to hear you failed Ash,at least it seems like you had a decent tester who explained things to you and also gave you ideas on how to rectify the problems which to me seems pretty decent of him.I'm sure it wont take you much time/effort or cost to get it all sorted ready for a retest.

[AshG]

been having a look at some of the fail points this morning the only one i cant seem to find a simple solution for is the convex mirror glass. i thought i would be able to just buy a replacement glass that was convex but they dont seem to exist.

does anyone know how difficult it would be to buy a convex glass for a different mirror and cut it down to fit mine?

[les g]

Well done Ash
that was a good result really.
sounds like just a few pedantic fails as is the norm........
and best of all , apart from the noise no big money fails
or things that are going to put you back to much
will you still have to buy Dogwood his curry
cheers les g

[Bonzo]

I am probably having a silly moment here Ash :o

Any chance that one of the self adhesive Caravan towing mirrors would do the job !!
Some of those jobbies are mirror finished plastic & wouldn't be adverse to a little trimming ;)
Not going to be very long lived but might do the job !!??

The only other solution that I can see is to fit a larger mirror ( Probably not an option at this late stage )

[Bonzo]

Here's the sort of thing I mean :)

Towing mirror (http://www.riverswayleisure.co.uk/acatalog/995766.html)

Not self adhesive but if it has a plastic mirror lense , it may do the trick !!

[spud69]

Hard luck Ash, looks like he's been fair but stuck to the manual to the letter mainly due to the audience. Never heard that one about the heat shrink being unsuitable though.

You shall soon be there though......AndyH

[old_bill]

Sorry to hear about the fail Ash. However, it won't be a big problem for a man of your talents to get it through next time and the knowledge you pass on will be invaluable to us.;)

By the way it was my birthday yesterday and I turned 59 :eek: does that make me the oldest lunatic in this assylum? :D :D

[DaddyA]

Ash,

unlucky but well done aswell. Shouldn't take long to correct those points, then she can be enjoyed to the full:)

[dogwood]

Simple answer to the mirror prob.
Unbolt it, chuck a cheap nasty one on .

Try Barnies bikes up Luton road

[dogwood]

By the way it was my birthday yesterday and I turned 59 :eek: does that make me the oldest lunatic in this assylum? :D :D

Only just...57 for me.....Don't make you the looniest though..:rolleyes:

[TSM Locost]

Sorry BILL ......... I was 60 last December. :D :D :D

[Big Vern]

Hi Ash,

What mirrors are you using? Is it due to the size of the mirror - ie just above mimimum size so it's legal but limited view (the problem with a lot of aftermarket mirrors apparently). Guess Dogwood could be right on this and just get a mirror that'll pass then switch it out for the one you have:D
A good fail though as the rest of us can pester the suppliers to supply mirrors that actually work!

Attached - hopefully - are a couple of piccies - one is of a cable gland cover used on the track rod end which looks very OEM and should be available from most good electrical factors, the other of the Tiger lower steering column arangment and below it in that image is the Truimph Dolomite (I think - I'll have to check) lower column which will fit the Escort rack.

HTH BV.

Correction the steering shaft mentioned above is a TR7 lower column shaft available from rimmer bros. Part No. TKC1084

[davidimurray]

Ash

Congratulations and commiserations. Only just got back from a weekend away so busy catching up with the forum. Just getting the car to iva is a massive achievement. The failure list doesn't look too bad and i'm sure you will get them sorted soon.Will be interested to hear more about all the issues. Have you tried looking at any of the online part fiches for your mirrors in case there are any variants - a good resource is - http://fiche.ronayers.com/

Cheers

Dave

[Big Vern]

Hi Ash,

See here for convex glass mirrors and replacement glass

http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=pb&pid=37061

Regards BV.

[dogwood]

Just called in on Ash.
We were discussing the mirrors.
Plus some other bits he failed on that others have passed with ok
Seemed strange mine and several others have passed
with the same mirrors, and his failed.
They are Yamaha R1 mirrors.
Seems they are ok for everyone but him.

[davidimurray]

Out of interest have you compared the position of yours and Ash mirrors? Wonder if Ash are slightly further back?

[dogwood]

Out of interest have you compared the position of yours and Ash mirrors? Wonder if Ash are slightly further back?

Nope, in exactly the same place.
Ash checked on mine before fitting his.
To try and avoid this exact problem

[Big Vern]

I suspect there are several minor issues here.

IVA Inspectors are probably required to follow normal type approval techniques in conducting field of view checks which wasn't always the case with SVA. ie rotating head but torso must remain in stationary position.

Small mirrors will have a smaller field of view from any particular viewing point.

I have also conducted a test with a small make up mirror which indicates motor cycle mirrors may not be suitable - with the mirror to my left just 18" from my head and with the right side of my face on the right hand edge of the image in the mirror I can see quite a lot behind my left shoulder and to the left of this! but when I move 50" away from the mirror and try again I can see very little of what is behind my left shoulder......
I wonder if this reduces the field of vision when using motor cycle mirrors.

As for the noise issue, I'm assuming Ash didn't use an SVA compliant muffler?
The trouble with straight through mufflers if they're LOUD:D
but I would have thought SVA compliant mufflers would have been available for some time so being over the limit by 2db would be understandable but by 7db.hhmmm.

Does the tailpipe exit horizontally or is it angled downward?

BV.

[AshG]

well the mirrors were a fair bit bigger than the size required in the iva manual so im still not sure why i had the issue. like dave said they are in the same place as his and he passed the with the same tester at the same test station doing the same test with the same equipment. Mirror tests are the same for sva and iva. i dont know why i failed but if i fit the convex mirror glass that i acquired today the tester should be happy with the improved view.

as for the noisy exhaust I bought it off blackcab on locost builders he sold it to me because he thought it wasn't loud enough lol. what i thought about after the test was that my exhaust was actually tested with the bonnet off which i suspect slightly inflated the the reading although I think it still would have been over. i have managed to acquire a very good quality calibrated db meter off of the chairman of my flying club so will be conducting some tests later in the week with the bonnet on and off.

[Bonzo]

Hi Ash

Do you happen to know what sound weighting is used for the IVA test .. A or C :confused:

As you Know my nearest IVA centre is a 200 + mile round trip for me :eek:

Really, really don't want sound to be an issue .... I am thinking along the lines of a cheapo GBS silencer, combined with an intermediate can !!??

I can buy a lo-cost ching chong decibel meter for general guidance .... I know it will be poor quality but should give a general idea of noise levels !!

I guess aim for about 96 - 97 db & sort out the silencer propper, post IVA ;)

I'll be OK for steering/suspension set up & have access to a rolling road for brake setup .

I would like to give my build the best chance possible & have taken into account, your recent advice .... Thank's for sharing that with us all :cool:

[Big Vern]

Hi Ash,
What type of intake system are you running? is it stock from the sierra?
Side draught webers and bike carbs will make a lot of noise so you'll definitly need the bonnet on/good air cleaner.
As you have access to a noise meter do you have a chance to rotate the angle of the exhaust outlet to see what affect that has on noise?

BV.

[AshG]

Ronnie I would be ready for a retest to be honest as the tester at Gillingham said nobody with a kit car ever passes first time, even if you make adjustments on the day that is still not considered as first time pass apparently.

hi vern the intake system is bike carbs they do have filters but they are minimal at best.

i will be playing about with different exit angles and different methods of noise suppression. I tried a bike can on the exhaust just to see if it made a difference and with the bike re-stricter that is built into the can it made the volume so low that the engine was much louder than the exhaust. once i have the db meter i will carry out some tests before and after to see how much i can actually get it down by without over restricting the flow.

[Bonzo]

Ronnie I would be ready for a retest to be honest as the tester at Gillingham said nobody with a kit car ever passes first time, even if you make adjustments on the day that is still not considered as first time pass apparently.


Fully expecting a re-test Ash .... I can dream though ;) :)

Realisticaly, i'll not be ready for IVA before spring next year :o

Not wanting to sound too callous, hopefully a clearer picture of what the examiners are expecting will emerge ..... To come home with a MAC certificate on the day will be a bonus .... Even if I have to jump hoops to get it :)

[AshG]

been looking in to this db thing and its got to be done to db A

went to my mates tonight and got this db meter its a top of the line super duper calibrated thingy. im guessing it will be more accurate than the one vosa use as they use this puppie on planes as they have to keep them under a certain db so they dont piss off the people living around the field.

luckily the patch is totally waterlogged at the moment so i can keep hold of it for a wile

p.s it looks expensive so i better be careful with it.

[Big Vern]

"I would be ready for a retest to be honest as the tester at Gillingham said nobody with a kit car ever passes first time"

This is something the kit car world will have to get used to. The way the IVA is implemented is slightly different to the SVA as the SVA was only intended as a temporary measure.

The IVA will be 'tinkered' with, and updated by the VOSA on a regular basis keeping it up to date (closing loopholes etc), as is the case with the whole vehicle type approval.

For this reason it will be unlikely that anyone building a one off or kit car will pass first time and that needs to be taken into account at the begining of the build.

We see from Ash's experience that there is information the testers have in their manuals and training which seems not to be available to the general public. :mad: (i.e. I cannot find anything in the IVA manual about the required E marking of the side indicators - yet Ash recieved a fail and an explaination of why they failed).

And we also see differences between the way the same tests in the SVA and IVA are carried out - as in Ash's mirrors!

In my opinion it is essential for each of us who goes through the IVA test to report on our experiences so as to give those who follow the greatest chance of getting through but all who 'take the test' will need to prepare for that first failure:(

BV.

[AshG]

I think its just a case of sharing our experience with others in the aim that we can reduce their fail sheets.

At the end of the day its all new to everyone so we are just going to have to find new ways of passing the regulations.

personally im very happy that i come away with such a minor fail list. i didnt expect the car to pass first time and expected a retest.

I used adrian's experiences of his test to prepare for mine. i can tell you now it really helped as i didnt have any of the same problems as adrian because i addressed them prior to the test.

the iva isnt intended for these types of cars and as such, is a difficult thing to pass. that's not to say its impossible.

[Bonzo]

How is the work progressing on your Roadster Ash ? ..... Hopefully, you'll be nearing the end of your to do list !! :cool:

I like the solution that you have implemented to overcome the steering shaft issue .... That'll do the job nicely :)

Have you given any thoughts to the timescale of your re-test ? ...... You must be really exited about having the Roadster, road legal in the very near future :) :)

[AshG]

nearly done everything now ronnie. tried to remove the glass out of my r1 mirrors to replace it with a convex one today. borke the standard glass getting it out, then after hours of messing about with a diamond cutting disc and water bath managed to shape the new convex mirror to fit in the r1 mirror housing only to crack the bloody thing. im so pissed off i want to smash the car up.

have just bit the bullet and bought a set of westfield mirrors at stupid expense, if I cant pass with those then im guessing I will need to attach a bathroom mirror as I don't think you can get a bigger car mirror.

hope to get it in for retest either by the end of this week or early next week, just want the bloody thing done now.

[deezee]

Swap you for measuring a side panel wrong and cutting a hole for the lower wishbone in the wrong place. Had to make an entirely new side panel. It was totally awesome..... and by awesome, I mean I could have cried.

How did you get around the rear roll bar support? Mine is as per the book and it sounds like this might be a failure point. Although I can't see anything in the manual to support the testers claim!

[Bonzo]

So sorry to hear that bit of bad luck Ash :(

I can 100% understand you frustration mate .... Sometimes things just seem to conspire against you, at least it feels that way.

Chin up Ash .... When you are holding that MAC certificate , you'll be grinnig from ear to ear :cool:

Let's hope when we meet at Stonelegh, you'll be able to look back at all of the low points of the build & smile in the knowledge that I will still have all of that to come ;)

[AshG]

have welded the roll bar backstays to the chassis. was a complete bitch to get in there with the welder without taking the top panel off. (to get my top panel off you have to remove the roll bar then the top panel) basically means that my top panel or roll bar can never be removed but im willing to trade it for an IVA pass.

[Enoch]

Hey, Ash, did the examiner tell you on what point within the manual that your bolted on roll bar actually failed? I can't see under what basis he could have failed it. As far as I know that design is accepted by race series, the bracket is gusseted so as long as a lock nut is used I can't see on what basis he failed it. It might help others if we knew where in the manual it states that one bolt is not acceptable.
Thanks in advance,
Enoch.

[dogwood]

Hi Enoch

Try this....:mad: :mad:

He reckons in an accident the seatbelts, firstly would bend the cross bar then pull out the back stays.........

Leave it to you to comment...:rolleyes:

[Bonzo]

He reckons in an accident the seatbelts, firstly would bend the cross bar then pull out the back stays.........



What's happening with the main hoop when all of this is going on with the cross brace & back stays :confused: :confused:

Given the yeild/shear strength of 2 X M10 8.8 Bolts :eek: In the event of an impact large enough to exert that sort of forces ...... Probably have a lot more to worry about than the roll bar !!?? :rolleyes:

[deezee]

Thats crazy! Its like complaining that the front of the car won't protect you from going nose first off a cliff. If you in a collision with enough force to bend that steel, your proper dead.

[AshG]

well its welded now so there isnt any debate, its never coming off the chassis will snap before the roll bar :D not too worried as it will probably stiffen up the back end a bit.

[Bonzo]

Nice one Ash :cool:

At the end of the day ..... We can only act on the advice that is freely given by the tester on the day :)

Have you got the new mirrors yet ? .... How's your noise level now you have packed the can !?

Nearly there Ash .... Soon be on the road & looking great :) :)

[AshG]

got the noise down from 106 to 89db there was naff all wadding in the can when i opened it up.

nope not got them yet, expecting them today. haven't been out to the workshop yet as the outside door bell batteries are dead. I was contemplating running down to the local garage to get some more batteries but knowing my luck they will turn up when im out getting them.

postie usually comes around 11:30ish most days so im gonna stay in the kitchen this morning and have a full works fry up. :D

[Bonzo]

postie usually comes around 11:30ish most days so im gonna stay in the kitchen this morning and have a full works fry up. :D


You have been & made me feel hungry now ..... Sure I can smell bacon frying .... All I had was a slice of toast n a glass of OJ :D :D

That's certainly a marked reduction in the noise level ..... Just goes to show the worth of some decent packing :cool:

[AshG]

well i must admit putting the bonnet on shaved off 5db. completely forgot to put it back on for the actual test so didn't do myself any favours.

so technically i could have passed an sva with the bonnet on at 101db but still wouldn't have been good enough to pass iva.

[Enoch]

Thanks guys. You have to wonder what sort of remains would be left of your body if you had an accident big enough to do that sort of damage. I guess they are thinking about if you turned the car over but there you go. Sadly there is no point arguing, you just have to do what "the man" says.
Best of luck with the retest, Ash.

[AshG]

to be honest i didnt think it was an unfair request. he did say i could add another bolt or weld it. i chose to weld it because its stronger and easier to do.

they are only concerned about safety at the end of the day. if his suggestions make my car safer then it cant be a bad thing. its not ideal that I cant take the roll bar off if i want to. but then again would i ever need to?

[Big Vern]

Hi Ash,
Does this mean the roll bar is essential and the two rear stays are a requirement? or are the stays required because you have a roll bar?
I couldn't see anything in the IVA manual that said you had to have a roll bar!:confused:
It had occurred to me that all that would be required would be a suitable brace across to mount the harnesses from would get the car through the IVA the you could have what ever roll bar you liked after that....:D

BV

[Bonzo]

I guess this is not a roll bar issue as such ??!!

The act of placing the top harness mounts on part of the roll bar structure, brings this into the area of: Seat belt mountings, structure & security !!

In this case, one can only assume that in the examiners view. the upper seat belt anchor point & it's associated structure was deemed unacceptable & lacked integrity or strength in a critical area :confused:

One thing to bear in mind is ..... Not all of the IVA requirements are set in stone.

As with the humble MOT test .... A lot of rules & regs are open to the examiners personal point of view as to how they should be implimented .... This is probably suplimented by memos from individual station managers, VOSSA head office & the department of Transport :eek:

I expect any MOT tester will tell you that it's not an easy job .... Dread to think how the IVA examiners cope !!??

[AshG]

nail on the head ronnie. he was looking at it not as a roll bar but as a seatbelt mounting point. if you dont have a roll bar they will assess the seatbelt anchorages where ever you put them.

i personally would prefer them to be on the roll bar than the rear frame as the roll bar is much stronger.

[flyerncle]

We have been down this road previously, IVA and MOT have methods of inspection and reasons for rejection and are available to anyone to read, add the human element and it all goes breasts skyward.
Brake pipes are failed for being rusty,not the criteria ! Excessive corrosion is the fail and the human interpretation of the criteria is the problem.
Nothing in the above has anything to with IVA but is merely trying to illustrate the problems with the human element of testing and I personally think Ash is to be praised for his attitude towards the tester and IVA as some would think its a personal vendetta when the guy is just doing a job and there are many horror storys to be told about certain VOSA stations who do have a problem with kit cars.

[Big Vern]

Oh I totally agree Flyerncle,
I was simply trying to establish whether it is a requirement of open top cars to have a roll bar, (my MX-5, as standard, doesn't and nor does the latest version!) and if a roll bar is a requirement does it have to have rear diagonal braces?
ie a bit like the windscreen - if you don't have one for the IVA then there's a whole bunch of stuff you don't need and therefore can't fail on:D :D

BV.

[flyerncle]

An opening windscreen needs no wipers.(For MOT purposes) Silly or what.:rolleyes:

I have not read all the IVA manual but would think if its not there it cant be tested and safety items should be a fail if not there and rightly so.

[spud69]

to be honest i didnt think it was an unfair request. he did say i could add another bolt or weld it. i chose to weld it because its stronger and easier to do.

they are only concerned about safety at the end of the day. if his suggestions make my car safer then it cant be a bad thing. its not ideal that I cant take the roll bar off if i want to. but then again would i ever need to?

I think you've just hit the nail on the head there Ash, my 3 minor failures where more related to safety of the car and i was actually pleased that he had pointed them out and i could rectify them.

Prior to the SVA my attitude was that the test was a chore that had to be gone through and get the car passed the satin's slaves but i was glad to go through the process and gave me confidence that the car was structurally sound and safe the examiner being a good down to earth bloke. At the time the SVA was a bloody good value and thorough safety inspection of the build, the only main issue now to me is the excessive cost.

After-all we'll all be racing around with our friends and family in the car and want it to be safe.

AndyH

[flyerncle]

I see where you are coming from Vern and cant remember seeing an open top car sports or otherwise wearing an out and out roll bar other than one that has been added cosmetically,they get thinly disguised behind the headrests of the seat's as roll hoops and work in conjuntion with the airbags system.

The only exception that comes to mind is the Boxster and that has a complete bar that is bolted to the floor but again covers the headrests.