IVA and side panel holes

[Jimmyd]

I'm I correct in thinking the holes in the side panels for wishbones, exhaust etc do not need a radius if the 100mm sphere can't come in contact with the edge of the hole? It obiviously then does if the sphere can reach it.

J

[mr henderson]

I'm I correct in thinking the holes in the side panels for wishbones, exhaust etc do not need a radius if the 100mm sphere can't come in contact with the edge of the hole? It obiviously then does if the sphere can reach it.

J

That's correct.

[flyerncle]

Some edge trim would probably keep them happy.

[mr henderson]

Some edge trim would probably keep them happy.

That's true, and it would look neater too, but if they can't touch them with the sphere, then they can't fail you on them.

It's worthwhile anyone facing an IVA test making a sphere, I made one with a half a 'diablo' plastic toy which happened to be almost exactly 100mm.

[snapper]

Basically edge trim everything you can get edgetrim on.
No one fails for to much edgetrim

[mr henderson]

Basically edge trim everything you can get edgetrim on.
No one fails for to much edgetrim


And no one fails when a non contactable edge has no trim. There's no harm on edging non-contactable edges, and might make it look better too, but it's not actually an IVA necessity.

[snapper]

I have been to 3 SVA's & 1 IVA, we always carry several boxes of items, including trim and silicon, that way if Mr IVA points out an edge he is not happy with we can fix it there and then.

[mr henderson]

I have been to 3 SVA's & 1 IVA, we always carry several boxes of items, including trim and silicon, that way if Mr IVA points out an edge he is not happy with we can fix it there and then.

I'm glad to hear it, sounds very sesnsible


By the way, if they can't contact it (with the 100mm sphere) , they can't test it :)

[snapper]

I've noticed you always have to have the last post.
Prove me wrong

[mr henderson]

I've noticed you always have to have the last post.
Prove me wrong

Well what do you want me to say? Do you want me to say, "oh, sorry, maybe they do test non-contactable edges after all" ? Do you want me to lie, in other words?

Bit silly though, it's simple enough really, either they are allowed to test non-contactable edges or they are not, it's certainly not a matter of opinion.


If it's a really big deal for you, why not post up the relevant part of the IVA manual?

What you are looking for is a bit that says the opposite of this-
"2. All ‘hard’ parts contactable with a 100mm sphere, which form an external surface or protrude 5mm or more from the external surface must have a radius of curvature of at least 2.5mm (see note 2)."

HTH

[snapper]

New you couldn't leave it

[mr henderson]

New you couldn't leave it


Now you are adding silliness to your incorrect answers.


The guy asks a question, I answer it (correctly), then people start contradicting me. Now I'm happy enough to be contradicted when I'm wrong, (and that does happen sometimes) but the reason it may not happen very often is that when I am not sure of the answer I either look it up (easy enough to do) or I STFU.

[snapper]

Chocolate Biscuit

[mr henderson]

Chocolate Biscuit


I have to admit, you are making more sense now than you were earlier :)

[Jimmyd]

Thanks chaps. As I want to keep my holes as "neat" as possible I don't want to leave gaps for edge trim if I don't need to so thanks for the reply's.

J

[mr henderson]

Thanks chaps. As I want to keep my holes as "neat" as possible I don't want to leave gaps for edge trim if I don't need to so thanks for the reply's.

J


You are welcome. As long as the NI test is the same, and the sphere can't touch the edge in question, you're OK

[snapper]

JimmyD, wish you luck with the IVA, it is the scariest thing I have been through but also a great feeling when you pass.

[AshG]

im gonna disagree here. openings in external body panels must either be folded in on them selves or trimmed as all panel gaps and edges must be blunted.

Also you can fail for having too much trim as i found out! If a piece of trim is obstructing the tester from seeing something they need to check then it can cause a fail. in my case i failed on heat shrink round my track rod ends, he needed to check the lock nuts but couldn't because of the heat shrink, result i either failed on the lock nut or failed on the trim as i had to cut it off for him to inspect the locknut.

[mr henderson]

im gonna disagree here. openings in external body panels must either be folded in on them selves or trimmed as all panel gaps and edges must be blunted.



But where does it say that?

[Enoch]

That's in the latest version downloadable from the VOSA web site. The rule used to say that they had to have a specific radius on them, now they talk about "safety edges" and "blunted edges". It came in about 2-3 months ago, it makes a change for clarification to work in favour of the builder:)
If you search the new document for "blunted edges" you will see lots of areas where they have removed specified radii in favour of the blunted edge rule.
Enoch

[mr henderson]

That's in the latest version downloadable from the VOSA web site. The rule used to say that they had to have a specific radius on them, now they talk about "safety edges" and "blunted edges". It came in about 2-3 months ago, it makes a change for clarification to work in favour of the builder:)
If you search the new document for "blunted edges" you will see lots of areas where they have removed specified radii in favour of the blunted edge rule.
Enoch


People seem to be forgetting again, it's the CONTACTABLE EDGES that are important. If they can't be contacted, then they can't be tested.

So, for instance, a hole in a stainless steel panel to allow a wishbone to pass through- sphere is applied (if the examiner is in doubt, though obviously they can judge most of these situations by eye), and if the hole is sufficiently small that the wishbone stops the sphere getting near the edges of the hole, then those edges are not contactable and are not tested.

As stated earlier, this is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

[snapper]

A friend has been in contact with VOSA over various issues relating to IVA.
Whilst the manual is there for all to read, it is a guidance for the examiner and he has discretion on the day, he can fail a car if he is not happy.
VOSA will not overrule him.
This is why going the extra mile, being extra vigilant, taking advise from many people and applying it to your build is prudent.
Having a box of bits and being prepared to correct things on the day of IVA has got us through 4 passes.

[mr henderson]

A friend has been in contact with VOSA over various issues relating to IVA.
Whilst the manual is there for all to read, it is a guidance for the examiner and he has discretion on the day, he can fail a car if he is not happy.
VOSA will not overrule him.
This is why going the extra mile, being extra vigilant, taking advise from many people and applying it to your build is prudent.
Having a box of bits and being prepared to correct things on the day of IVA has got us through 4 passes.

All of that is true, especially having the box of edging etc. Never-the-less, if the edge can't be contacted then it can't be tested. Always a good idea to carry extra materials in case you get an awkward examiner, but they are on dodgy ground failing a car on an edge that is specifically exempted in the manual.

I've done IVAs too, and have never known a car to fail on an exempted edge. I acknowledge it's a good idea to have extra materials on hand, I fill up the back of my estate car with tools and materals when I attend a test.

[flyerncle]

With any test VOSA carries out you have the right to appeal if you are not happy with the result.

An examiners decision can and has been overuled after re-examination by senior examiners of Vosa and Bristol is the main place to appeal too.

This has been discussed previously and the same old same old goes on,its the testers interpretation of the written word and their decision at time of test exactly the same with MOT testing.

Two distinct definitions in the dictionary apply to rust and corrosion,rust is the start of corrosion and if I had £1 for every failure for "excessively corroded brake pipes" I would not have to work.

My point,the tester is human as is the presenter and if you go overboard with edging and other safety/trim related items in my opinion is worth brownie points and keep the tester happy.

[mr henderson]

How about this for a summing up-

The answer to the original question is that as long as the sphere can’t touch them, then edges can’t, or at least shouldn’t, be tested. However, it might be that one gets an examiner that doesn’t understand his own rule book (not happened to me, but it might happen) and he fails a car on a non-contactable edge.

Now the presenter could appeal that failure, and the failure would be overturned, but on the other hand it would be quicker and simpler to take a box of various trimming materials with you to the test and trim any non-contactable edges that the examiner was not happy with.

How’s that?

[flyerncle]

The last few lines of the above say's it all,do unto others before they do it to you. Do it before the test.......

[mr henderson]

Do it before the test.......


No thanks. If I went round covering every edge that the examiner might want to test, despite being non-contactable (and therefore not testable), it would take a lot longer to get a car ready for a test.

I'm going to stick with taking some material on a just in case basis, and being ready to apply it there and then. Fortunately the testers at my local VOSA test centre do know their jobs. Others will have to make their own minds up.

[snapper]

Well that's the thread to a conclusion the
Well done gentlemen

[flyerncle]

Chocolate biscuits........