It is a bad day when somebody has to post something like the above,no-one has questioned the quality of any persons products and the word crap has never been used.
The unfortunate thing about forums and the human race in general is that you have choice and opinions and people voice these as they are free to do so.

I wish you all the best in your endeavours.

Sorry for late reply, I did log on earlier but got a call from my elderly mother saying both smoke alarms were going off in her house :eek: hot footed over there ...false alarm.... the low battery bleepers were sounding...phew :rolleyes: bless her.

This thread seems to have developed during today...

Grumpy Locost....

I,ll try to give an answer to your question.

The kits that I offer at the price that they are , are I trust a fair price for the work involved to supply a kit, alot of it is down to the price of the steel that I buy at, sadly I,m not a large purchaser of steel & this sort of dictates the total cost of my kits, but I do try to offer advantages to justify the kit price, for instance, the kits come with the front frame fully welded which I hope is seen as an aid to the builder having no need to make up a jig etc, I have also offered the kits with a build table template if the purchaser wishes to have, this is a template that goes onto the build table which helps the accurate positioning of the bottom rails, which is the foundation of the chassis.

With regard kits available at another purchase price, its not for me to know why or even question how a price is decided upon, I wish any supplier the very best in their venture in these difficult economic times,

on a personal note ,

as Ash has touched upon, its great that the Roadster "Marque" has various suppliers investing time , equipment, effort & expense to help any builders of the car, & yes its the customers choice of where they purchase parts that they wish to "buy in" for their own builds.


cheers
andy

Talon

Nobody is questioning your work. The OP asked a simple question, what do the kits include.
I told him the best people to ask were the people offering the kits.

If it were me, and someone in the same county was offering a kit/chassis, it would be a no-brainer. I'm not sure why the question got asked, especially when said person was "a chassis builder from Essex".

People have backed up both yours, Handys, and 3GEs work. It would seem the reason for a lot of people on here saying good things about Handy's work is just that more people have had kits from him.

If I had had the chance to buy even a precut kit when I started, knowing what I do know (compound angles grrrr), I would just buy one. Especially when, to be fair, the price of both kits is low compared to the price of steel for the average person. Obviously some of this is down to bulk purchasing power, it is also down to people having the right tools, jigs and experience to do a fast, neat and accurate job.

As with most things in life, there are options;
People can buy a car, or build one
They can buy the chassis, or weld it
You can go, or you can stay, but if you do go it will be a loss. You obviously have a lot of experience in fabrication and welding, and have provided plenty of help to people on here, it would be a shame to lose that sort of experience.

I'll second what others have said as well. when I started my build, there was only 3GE. Then people like Dave @ Rogue engineering popped up on EBay, and now there is also yourself and Saturn (inc. Handy). In theory, it is now pretty much possible to build a roadster from kit parts, with no welding required (or very little), this wasn't really an option when I started my build. It's a meteoric rise for the Haynes roadster, to go from hardly anything available (apart from MK bits) to having several suppliers/manfacturers.

Anyhow, it's early at work on a Friday morning, so I really should do some proper work.

oh dear
 

Surely this forum is just about people asking for help or advice and to give their personal opinions from their own experiences. Looking back at my post it might look like I was saying Talon were crap, but its not what meant, I just saw there was a big difference in price and what was offered betwen the 2 and thought it seemed odd, and having only heard good things about Handy's kit I felt more confident getting one of his. If I had heard more good things about Talons gear on here I may have had a different opinion?

Now Come on Phil, you have made over 300 posts on here and have a lot of happy customers, and a lot of helpful advice for clueless people like me, so don't dissapear as I am sure no one meant to piss you off.

It's worth pointing something out here- I've been a manufacturer of various things in the past, and I can say a lot depends on how people are set up.

When a manufacturer sets a price for something he will be bearing in mind the cost of the raw materials, the running costs of the business, and much time it takes to carry out the work, and how much money he wants/needs for that time.

So if 2 products from different manufacturers are the same (as far as the customer in concerned) but the prices are different, it may well be that there is a difference in one of the factors above. For instance it may be that one of them has a quicker machine, or lower rent, or is able to get the material cheaper, or has had a lot of practice (this can make a huge difference).

My point is that you can't judge the quality of something by the price, there's more to it than that.

A university lecture once aske us the question, name a "high quality watch"

A few students rolled of "Rolex, Tag, Omega"....

Meanwhile the lecturere was tapping his whrist, on which was a simple "Casio"...

TT

Somtimes expensive is not better,my watch went back to the makers on numerous ocassions and even after the warranty ran out they replaced it for a new one and even this one has the same problem and neither were cheap watches.

whats a watch ?

is it like a bracelet for men?

:)

I,d like to say that the above is a fair assessment ( apart from the quote of the 2 products being the same, in relation to the flat packs kits) of any manufactured product in any "walk of life".

I,d also like to add the following, but please be assured it is said with all good intentions & in no way intended to cause upset or frustration in any form what so ever to any person at all.

The kits that I supply are intended to help any future builder in their quest to build a Roadster, when I first offered the kits I did research by asking the forum membership questions such " what should the kit include, to what level of completion" etc, I took onboard the very good response from all the members that replied, & so that then became the kits that I started to supply.
I only started offering the kits when it became apparent that a previous supplier of flat pack kits ( Armoto ) had for no known reason stopped supplying them, so when I suggested about possibly offering to supply them, the idea was warmly welcomed, & so it is purely down to the length of time ( & hopefully satisfied purchasers ) that my kits had become popular, & hope they continue to do so.

I have never questioned any supplier about what products they supply or the prices they charge, that in all honesty is non of my business ( said politely ),

But as has been mentioned on this thread ( make sure what is included in the kit is what you require etc), the 2 suppliers of flat pack chassis kits offer 2 very different kits, they are not the same in what they include, they are not the same price, so as has also been said, its a customer choice of where they wish to purchase from once they have researched which kit suits their needs etc for whatever criteria the customer expects from a kit & its supplier.

This is also said with all due respect,
It is a shame that Phil ( Talon motor sport ) has taken the decision that he has, as others have said, we are all able to give help from experience gained in various ways to others that may not have that experience etc etc , for example.... I personally know nothing about electrics , I wouldn,t comment or give a reply to someone asking about an electrical situation, but I read the posts & enjoy learning from others that are confident in that subject....

I wish Phil & Talon as a business all the very best,
yes we offer similar products but that doesn,t mean there is a conflict of interests, in fact I have in the past ( around when I started making kits) made contact with Phil & tried to pass on a possible customer, as at the time the "customer" wished to purchase a flat pack kit from me but for personal reasons about the customer ( less abled bodied ) I felt it may be better for him to purchase a fully welded chassis & suggested he contact Phil at Talon, & even gave him the contact number.

My point being, yes we offer similar products but would like to think that this fact doesn,t create a "divide" on a personal level.

This is all said with total respect to all.

cheers
andy

You're right in all that you say Andy, but don't get too stressed about recent events. I even said that following the recent kit car article that the feature was good for all haynes roadster suppliers and we should all be in the business for the benefit of the Haynes Roadster brand as it is now and going forward - for whatever we may gain from it and yes some of us are a business and need to make a living but we are in this business because we love the concept and the car itself. At the end of the day it is upto the builders themselves to make their own minds up and we shouldn't need to justify ourselves over who goes where and how much they pay for whatever service they may offer.

We are supplying a service to the industry so lets just enjoy doing that. I do not get involved in politics but recent posts seem to be undermining the nature of the haynes build philosophy. Sorry if some of this doesn't make sense but i've had a drink and i know what i mean.

All the Breast....AndyH