how far do i go
 

i,ve started cleaning up my donor engine, stripping bits off it etc & a general clean up, its a 1.8cvh which i only plan to use to get me thru iva & then put a zetec 2ltr in, so as per title how far do you think i need to go with this engine?
my thoughts were to replace/ renew the following.....
plugs
oil & filter
clutch ( stripped it today & its had it )
exhaust gasket ( fell apart today )
alternator belt ( its cracking )
sump gasket ( rubber perished )

i have the service book for the engine which is a genuine 90k miles & has had new cambelt every 20k miles so the one thats fitted is only 10k miles old,
so anything else you can think to do to it apart from chop the sump?
took sump off today & not a trace of any sludge etc, i,m well happy with this engine.
i don,t even think i,m gonna take the head off as it was running well when i drove it home 200 miles when i bought it.

cheers
andy

The bits you have listed to replace are essential and as you say it ran fine so there should not be any bother with it for the short period you intend it for,spend as little as possible on it and keep the pennies for some thing nasty and powerfull later and fingers crossed VOSA have no intention of re-testing it later.:cool:

why would vosa need to retest it once its passed iva ?:confused:
the engine is in a stand which makes it so easy to work on, tho the one thing that puzzled me was that someone in the past has welded one of the 10mm nuts securing the exhaust manifold heatshield which caused grief trying to get the manifold off :mad:
yeah i,ll spend very little on this engine, can get a 3 piece clutch kit for £20 so i think £50 max on bits n bobs. :D
cheers
andy

spend what you have to spend. no more no less. im going to wip the head and sump off the pinto give it a flush out, fit new cam belt, regrind the valves replace head gasket and stem seals so it runs nice and clean. i did a compression test before i stripped the sierra and it was spot on. total spend around the £40-50 mark.

sounds good Ash, wish i,d thought to do a compression test, tho i did take the car to my friendly mot ( used them for yrs ) station & they did an emissions test on my engine & all was fine so as i,m not too confident with taking head off i,ll leave it alone :o
cheers
andy

if you put it in the car and it runs well i would be reluctant to remove it unless the zetec was known to be 100% good.

depending when my car passes iva the plan is to replace with a brand new 2ltr zetec the following winter after iva pass, basically a new engine with bike carbs will give 140bhp which is alot more than the cvh engine & a known history of the new engine.
cheers
andy

Get yourself a brand new zetec from Great British Sports cars (Robin Hood) its not far to go and pick up and for £700 all in they are a bargain, plus, all the cvh bits fit it. I cant be certain but i think its the same flange size for the inlet manifold so once you've set up your bike carbs for the cvh they should transplant into the zetec.

If you need a hand with the bike carbs then just give me a shout, but, Bogg Brothers are the ones to setup the mixtures for them. For the cost v expertise they are very good value. He put mine on the rolling road and it was putting out 150 at the wheels which i was quite chuffed with. The engines from Robin Hood are the high power, 145PS, versions as well.

I've got my car booked in at Motoscope at Northallerton a week on Saturday to put it on the rolling road and have a proper ignition map done for the engine.

When you modify your sump Andy just make sure you you keep enough volume in with a proper step and baffles, i'm pretty sure thats what broke my previous engine on the track. I've modified the sump and fitted an oil pressure gauge (essential and easy) and all is well now with good pressure.

Can't you tell i'm bored at work....;)

Cheers Spud69
can i pop over at the weekend? few things i think i need your advice on.
i will be doing the zetec after iva.
its the sump mod thats got me sweating , one wrong cut etc etc :eek: :o i don,t want to end up binning my sump.
cheers
andy

We're off camping at the weekend Andy, but if you pm me with you're address and mobile i'll drive over tomorrow or Thursday night weather permitting.....Any excuse to get out.

It has been said on the forum that VOSA may re-inspect a car later so as too check it is still as IVA'ed previously ie not modified further,hear say or not it would be a pain.

ahh ok, i,ll keep my head down & ears open when the time comes, but in defence i couldn,t help it that the cvh engine blew up :D ;)
cheers
andy

:D No prob cheers, tho if its ok with you how about picking me up from my place then we drive 6 miles to where i,m building my chassis ( mothers garage), any excuse to get another ride in your roadster :D :D
i,ll pm the address.
cheers
andy

ok all you wise ones, a few questions for you.......
will a set of ZX9R bike carbs work with my cvh engine ? either before iva or after? then when i "need" to swap my engine for a 2ltr zetec will these carbs be ok for the new engine etc?
your advice sought & welcomed.:cool:
cheers
andy

Why not IVA the set up you have,ie bog standard engine and carb that way you will not have to make or setup anything out of the ordinairy,like making manifolds and buying jets and the like.
Carbs have been discussed on here somewhere and I think zx9 or zx 600 were preferable but dont quote me on it !

Cheers.

Hi Andy

I am far from an expert in this field but here are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Being as your donor was a darn fine runner, I would be inclined to leave the CVH as standard till you have had your IVA.;)

To fit the carbs onto the CVH you'll be needing to make an inlet manifold to suit. I would imagine that the jets may need replacing or fine tuning for the engine to run smooth & meet emission targets.
Do you really want the hours & hours of work fine tuning the CVH engine just for temporary use.

When you change to the Zetec engine, you'll need to start from scratch all over again :eek:
The carbs set up for the 1.8 CVH are not likely to run so well on a 2 litre Zetec. A fair bit of power difference between the 2.

I think the carbs you mention will be OK for either engine but probably best suited to the Zetec unit. :)

ZX9R carbs will work fine with both engines. You'll need them rejetting on the Zetec though as it flows more air/fuel through the head ( I think most people just re-drill the jets up to 1.7mm). Obviously a bespoke manifold will be required for each engine. This isn't hard to make, but if your not happy making one, companies such as bogg bros will sell them.

Depending on your engine management choice, your going to need some sensors. Now I believe, that some early ZX9R carbs came without a TPS and would require a custom bracket and a TPS sourcing. So its just easier to get a later model set, that includes a TPS (assuming you need one)

I don't know if your 1.8cvh is pre cat or not. If it is, then putting carbs on won't make any diff to the IVA.

thanks Deezee, my cvh is pre cat & the zx9r carbs do come with the TPS , i think the advice from Flyerncle & Bonzo is as usual spot on, ;)
as my plan is to go zetec asap then theres no point in spending time & money setting up the cvh / bike carbs at this point, UNLESS if the bike carbs make the cvh more responsive & so more enjoyable to drive with a relatively low powered engine , as i know my cvh engine is in good fettle & have full service history on it etc etc then it may still be worth considering,:)
decisions decisions:eek:
cheers
andy

Look carefully at the IVA manual but it seems quite likely that changing the engine post IVA could require at least a partial retest. You would be required to inform DVLA of change of engine number and provide neccesary documentation for this so 'pulling your collar up and keeping a low profile" may not work.
The IVA sets out the emissions requirements which are now related to the engine you have fitted. Changing the engine to a more modern engine will require you to meet the emissions requirements for the engine you fit that could include cat and engine management for a late Zetec....
Get an early Zetec (pre 1995 I think - again check the IVA test manual) then build and IVA with that.

Thanks for the info Big Vern, ok , this is me sitting on the fence with a hypothetical (spelling???) situation........lets say a car passes the iva & then truthfully has an engine failure & requires a new engine are you saying the car then will need to be retested ? if this is the case then that surely blows the bottom out of the replacement engine market, does this only apply to "kit cars" or to every car on the road? it seems a crazy situation to me.
i will indeed read the manual very carefully, as it maybe not worth trying to get an age related plate by keeping/providing information of the donor car, for the effort & cost i might as well put a new zetec with cat etc into my car now .
the red tape seems to get more & more tangled up.
cheers
andy

If you feel the need for speed or just something a little better than the ford carb use a 28/36 Weber or even 40's.Straight swap and no making manifolds etc.
Big Vern has raised my fears as per previous post regarding changes to car post IVA and indeed they may re examine the car along with all the hassle,dont forget the cost and of course it wont be cheap.
Look at it ths way,CVH, big fat estate car 100 mph ? CVH very light Roadster
very quickly to 100 MPH with handling to match as you very well know.

The choice is yours......

Hi Flyerncle, thanks again for the info & yes i do "see" what you are saying with regard the power/weight equation from donor to Roadster, in all honesty having been in some very quick "7" style cars i,m envious of the power they have & maybe i,m longing for the same, the more i get into my build the better i want the end product to be, not in a financial sense but purely from an enjoyment sense, maybe this is my past(bike racing) catching up on me with wanting that adrenalin rush. :o :D
thanks for all for the input/advice, it is appreciated:cool:
cheers
andy

Once you turn the key and that engine start I think you will get all the rush you need and will be smiling for a week.
Going solo in a light aircraft for the first time at an international airport is the best rush I have ever had,high as a kite for a week!

Go for it.

what ???? :eek: you stayed in the air for a week???? "high as a kite for a week" :D sorry pulling your leg.
yes i can only imagine the rush that experience gave you, fantastic achievement to get to that level :cool:

maybe when i finish my car & the first thrill wears off i,ll be saying to myself "want more power", & yes i,m greedy when it comes to vehicle power.;)
cheers
andy

What kind of power could you get out of the CVH? I know they aren't the most tuneable of Ford engines, but they were pretty large volume and there must be quite a range of bits? If the engine is sound, I would be inclined to go for some fairly mild mods up to the point that big money is required. Perhaps then change to a Zetec?

I know loads of jap scene people that modify/change engines on cars as soon as the car has had its import SVA. I've never heard of anyone being asked to attend an inspection.

I've just searched through VOSA website, DVLA website and the IVA PDF. Can't find any info regarding inspections for engine change. All you need is proof in the form of a reciept for the engine, a letter from a garage or 3rd party inspector (AA, RAC etc)

From the DVLA (no mention of engine)

Slimtater.... i believe the most that a cvh engine would manage is about 100 bhp, tho i stand to be corrected..... the cvh 1600 engine has more tuning bits available as this was the engine of the XR3 era,
to date i,ve been in 3 "7" style cars, yours , spud,s & a mate from locostbuilders forum that has a hyabusa turbo engine & that was :eek: quick, so thats why i,m thinking my poor little cvh won,t be enough for me, i,m being honest with myself that i will want more from my car. hmmmmm:confused: :D
cheers
andy

thanks Deezee, that makes more sense in that yes the local dvla office will need to inspect the car after an engine change to confirm what i,m telling them is the truth, ie engine changed to this engine number from xyz company with receipt etc, i imagine its to stop people registering a 1.6 engine then putting in a whopping V8 but only paying car tax as a 1.6., the way i see it is the dvla are more concerned over which class the vehicle is taxed on rather than emissions etc as thats left to mot stations etc.
i might be wrong but thats how i see it.
andy

I think you have hit the nail square on the head Andy ;)

Being as there is so much conflicting information available on the DVLA & VOSA websites. I would urge anyone that is unsure of any of the issues raised in this and other threads to write to thier local DVLA office for written confirmation of thier views.

I have spoken to my local IVA examiner in person. He has given me guidelines based on his interpretation of the rules.

This is the person who will carry out my IVA inspection. I would be a madman, not to follow the advice given. :eek:

I now have a letter prepared for my local DVLA office, hopefully I will get a written response that addresses my concerns over engine & donor parts required for an age related plate.
It is my understanding that you do not need to use the donors engine to obtain an age related plate as enough parts will be used from the donor to qualify for an age related plate.

Ultimately, my local DVLA will handle the registration of my buld. Again I will follow thier advice to the letter.

As said before different offices may give different guidelines, so many of the rules are open to personal interpretation of them. :rolleyes:

If in doubt Andy. Ask the local offices that will be dealing with you build.

With a little luck all will be plain sailing. Fun all the way from then on :D

Ronnie, thanks for the info, yes i agree that a contact with the local dvla is the way to go, thats what i,ll be doing as i have an office in my home town, i,ve been reading thru old posts/threads & this situation has come up before & basically the feeling is that the dvla inspection office is just to check numbers of supplied information given by the builder that for taxation class allocation that the numbers match, ie engine number ( engine size checkable) & chassis number before the vehicle can be taxed, & i presume the same applies to changing an engine, ie taxation class, tho i will be checking this out with dvla,

but then again with the new IVA regs there might be something in it about emission testing of new engine compared to the test of the engine as presented at the actual test, confusing yes but i,ll dig deeper & find out & post my findings on this thread.
all the best
andy

Sorry to hijack the thread a little but I need to thank someone publicly.
Bonzo/Ronnie.Once again the forum has produced a gentleman who says he will do something and carried it out as he said he would,today I recieved from Ronnie a pair of rear uprights and I cannot put into words how pleased I am to recieve them and if this was you worst effort I cant wait to see the good ones.
A million thanks to a true gent.


Andy re CVH they put turbo's on in the XR3i turbo.

erm :o yes but i was under the impression that the 1600 CVH head is totally different to the 1800 (1769cc) CVH head, as you know i,m no mechanic :confused: so are you suggesting putting the XR3i turbo head onto my engine? is it a possibility?
cheers
andy

Must be honest and forgot about engine size.
It's not possible to swap the head without mega problems with regard to differences in the turbo and normally aspirated engine,compression ratio's under piston cooling and strength of block and crank etc.

Back to square one I'm afraid.

The flight was a high point in learning and life in general and scary too,no one too hold your hand and help you land literally taking you life in your own hands.
Worth it though !

Flyerncle, yes i can only imagine the feeling of being totally in charge of a plane, in a way i imagine it must have been exhilerating & frightening at the same time, makes riding a motorbike/car look easypeasy :eek: :D
first time i went in a helicopter going sideways was waaaaaaayyyyyyy too weird for me, :D :eek:

andy

You should try parachuting. Nothing beats the feeling of chucking yourself out of a plane at 3,500ft on your own and then dangling above villages without a care in the world with only a bit of fabric holding you from the plummet to earth.

now that IS on my to do before i die list :cool: along with jumping off a cliff with a hang glider :eek: :cool:

i,d do a sponsored parachute jump if there was somewhere fairly local to me that does it. :cool:
andy

It is top class. The only problem with sponsored parachute jumps are that they are with an instructor and your just along for the ride, you dont get to control anything, although the good thing about them are that you go straight to 10,000 foot and free fall. Where as what im doing is starting from the very begining and jumping on my own at 3,500 foot, to start with my chute auto deploys as soon as i jump and then i take it from there, as i get better i go higher and higher and start to pull my own chute as soon as i leave the plane and then progress through free fall times until eventually i just from 10,000 foot and doing 60 second free falls. If anyones interested in learning to parachute/skydive then feel free to pm me if you have any questions, but i do recommend to do a tandem jump to see if you like it before you put a lot of money into it (it is an expensive sport).

Back to engines though, anyone know what the 0-60 speed of a 1.8l CVH is? And what does this increase to when bike carbs are added? Also what is the 0-60 of a zetec + a zetec with mods?

i take it you want these figures based on a 7 style car & not the donor ? cos i,d be interested to know them too :D ;)
andy

[quote=Tatey;15630]It is top class. The only problem with sponsored parachute jumps are that they are with an instructor and your just along for the ride, you dont get to control anything,QUOTE]


Not always true. When I did my charity parachute jump, it was a day's training on the Saturday, then a solo jump on Sunday - well worth it!

Cheers

Adrian

hmmmm i,ll look into it, i have a charity in mind thats "close to home",
i,d be well up for jumping out of a plane :cool: :D

andy