My 4x4 Kit car is commencing
 

Hi just thought i would add some photos of my start to building this roadster

Of course at first the donor car has to have everything removed; heres how i got on.
The suspension and running gear to the rear ending is removed

interesting way of suspending the car. wouldn't want to be under it if the towing eye lets go.

i normally do it through a cross member :D or put the car on its side

I put large peices of wood under it before i went under there lol, The towing eye on the back of this car is very big and if it can tow a car it must be strong, think how hard they get yanked on when you pull away, mind you the front one i wouldn't trust with the engine in. will when the engine is gone lol, That how its leaving, 2 engine cranes then a hiabe on a lorry.

Just as a caveat the eye will be strong in tension, but unlikely to be anywhere near as strong in bending

I am strugling to see your images??

TT

Me too

Cheers Ginge

dont knowwhy they aint working they work fine here

Click on me


But the pics should be working now

How are you expecting to use the runnign gear, the Mondeo setup will not fit a 7 Style car.

TT

using the designs but making the chassis 300mm wider. (Wide Boy super 7 lol)

300mm wider :eek: Have you started on the chassis yet?

I realy dont think the 7 is going to work for you.

If you make the car 300mm wider then unless you increase the track ( which would mean longer driveshafts ) then your wishbones are going to be incredibly short or a very very odd design.

The height at th front is also going to be an issue, you need to keep the drive shafts as level as possible to avoid undue strain on the CV joints.


If you want 4x4, then use the Ztec engine but use sierra running gear.

TT

I'm guessing he is using the Zetec out of his 4x4 Mondeo? Also it will have all the suitable driveshafts, if he's using the Mondeo as the donor. Personally I think its going to look exceptionelly ugly. The wide Luego looks like a joke and thats quite wide. 12 inches wider is going to just be against the ethos of a sports car.

Luego Vs a Locost

Also. the mondeo shafts run in line with the back edge of the engine. So with the driveshafts in line with the hubs would mean the engine is sitting in the front frame at the nosecone, this would probably put too much weight over the front of the car.


Look at this picture and imagine the engine being turned 90 degrees and centraly located where the front rails are. That's prety much where it will have to be.


TT

I thought the Mondeo 4x4 used the MTX75 Gearbox with a transfer box? So the engine has to be dropped in sideways, which is probably why he needs a chassis 1 foot wider.

TBH I don't see the point getting it all in, only to have less power than other engines, and weigh 200 kgs more. With all that extra chassis, driveshafts and transfer box.

Sorry, just edited that to clarify.

Engine forward and rotated 90 degrees.

YEs it's the MTX75 with a transfer box of the diff.

TT

i think its ambitious :D if i wanted a 4x4 7 i would use the gearbox and front diff and hubs off a 4x4 sierra. you would then have to move the front dampers forward so that the drive shafts would clear. something like the mk indy R front suspension design would work.

personally i think is a bit of a waste of time using the zetec as it doesn't make enough power to warrant 4wd.

i dont really think 4x4 fits the ethos of a roadster is there a particular reason you want 4x4 or is it just for the challenge of doing it? i can tell you before you start that a standard roadster will run rings round it all day but i doubt that will put you off.

what im not going to say is dont do it. if you think you can pull it off then i personally would like to see.

I suspect it's the old "I have a donor to use but it's a....." reason

Personaly.

I would flog the Mondeo 4x4 stuff. Buy a 2.0 XR4x4 Gearbox and diffs. and do it that way. the Zetec will bolt to the MT75 box.

TT

I aint going to go down the sierra route, its been done to death!!! When i do thinks i do things different. I aint going to just follow the norm. It sounds to me like your all stuck in your ways and i think this will probably be my last post on here

I am not stuck in my ways,

I converted a 1.8 RWD sierra to 24V V6. and 4x4 with ABS.

I have converted a 1.1 Carb Golf to 1.3 EFI

And converted a FWD golf to Full IRS with longnatudinal engine..


there are only 1 or 2 4x4 Sierra based Roadsters neither of which I think are IVA'd, so it's not been done to death.


If you realy think it's a goer, then post up some pics of what you think it's body is going to look like. Are you plannign a 7-esq or full boddied car?

TT

The engine will be right up front like you, the difference in weight if 80Kg(transfer box and drive shafts, the photo of that car that was posted other than the grill looking ugly is how it will basicly look the suspension i have only drawn up rough on paper at the mo as am stripping the donor first. When i have the frame and have tested the suspension lengths then i will post it all on here so anyone wanna see how i did it they can see for them selves

Are you going to keep the mondeo lower wishbones, it would probably help.

Are you going to be able to get the engine under the nose?

It may be an idea to mock up the front end in timber so you can see how it will fit together..

TT

at the end of the day you can do what you like. as i have said i would like to see the progress and results.

i think you need to remember that this forum is primarily for people building a haynes roadster from the book. personally i don't think what your doing will resemble a haynes roadster. Although i firmly believe everyone is welcome to share what ever they are building and we all would love to see it. you just have to remember most people on here will be biased towards the book chassis design/setup/look.

what people are suggesting are ways to keep it looking like a book car. its becoming obvious that you are not so worried about keeping to book spec looks.

that was the plan as my dad is a carpenter I was going to get him in and help with the nose.

No am going to replace the lower arms will a modified design on the haynes ones, they will be approx the same size as the standard mondeo ones but the mounts are better on the haynes and look more in keeping with the Kit Car design. The main problem I can't work out on paper is that the front suspension will in the stand position foul the drive shafts

may have to lean the arm slightly to the front or back depending on space. One thing I did test is lock to lock on the drive shafts they don't move forward or back. so only have to judge the up and down angle

if you look at the mk indy R front suspension that will help. make sure its the r spec one that you look at and not the normal one

have a look here there are some really good picts of the suspension lay out on the indy r

http://mkindyrbuild.blogspot.com/

I want to to have the basis of looking like a haynes kit Car but I want to personalize it and make it mine. Not so much of a paint buy number's if you know what I mean. The basic shape is going to still be there and its just wider, like its going to be sat on 17" alloys, I am sure I ain't seen many like that

end of the day. The car is mean't be fun and a challenge and this is going to be both. Loving it already. Dirty from head to toe lol

HI
There was a post on here in 2008 with a wide chassis to take all of the BMW 5 series and all its running gear. If I remember right it was Chris Gibbs brother in-law. It was in keeping with the roadster but was a big boy. There may be some information on the geometries for a wide body car.

well the body pannel's being put on is a long way off yet. So designing the nose cone and other body parts are going to be months and months away. At least my cars giving people things to talk about. LoL

Wideness is not going to be the problems, and I actualy like the wide look. I had thought about a MCSorley When i was building a Locost.

Height is going to be the issue. The bonnet will have to be a lot higher than the standard bonnet as the driveshafts need to run close to verticaly between the hub and gearbox to avoid over stressing the joints. This is going to be even worse on 17's as that will raise the hub center. The scuttle is going to be lower than the nose ( and that may fail the IVA ).

( Look at thee Audi TT for an example of a front engined FWD sports car )

I was also wondering about the front shox and their location.

If you still have the query regarding the mushrooms then I can measuer the front strut of one of my MK1 2.5Si's sapre suspension.


Once my roadster is done, I will be using the 2.5 24V out of my MK1 mondeo in a seconf 7esq car, but with the unit tighlty packed behind the driver.

TT

Well its ambitious, but I'll reserve judgement until I've seen rolling chassis. I'll offer all the help I can for a Haynes Roadster builder. But I'm not sure if this will resemble a Haynes in the slightest (Different chassis, running gear and bodywork)

I had a quick peek on Locost Builders and I can't find anyone who has used a transverse engine arrangement, in the front.

Ere TT ....... You have nicked my idea :D :D

Well .... I can dream it'll hapen for me one day !! :o :o

I guess the aspect of shock location would probably be best solved by way of inboard suspension ...... I wouldn't fancy having a crack at that job from scratch !!??

You could use a diagonal from one of the wishbones to act on a damper behind the engine with a rocker on the top rail.

TT

Well I will keep posting on here letting you all know how its going

Correl, I admire your adventurous spirit, but people are just trying to be helpfull.

I got ""Flamed" within the first week of being on a build site, because I said not everyone could afford to go the home built fuel injection route and I was going to use the Ford stardard stuff on my Zetec!

I would guess you are lot like me in that you probably know it SHOULD not be done, but you cannot resist having a go anyway. Heck, that's half the fun for me!

On that basis, best of luck and if it works, we all look forward to seeing the finished article. Don't forget to document it thoroughly so we can crib when all the Sierra's have vanished!

If however you are looking at getting your car on the road a.s.a.p. for driving, then please take the advice that is freely offered.

As for the towing eye lifting idea? I can push a Mondeo, but I cannot lift one. Enough said?

(Now a TWD Modeo rear engined adaptation, THERE'S an Idea!)

Hahahah... There just seems to be a big aversion to fuel injection.

I will be using the stock EEC-IV on my 12V V6. And will use the Mondeo 24V Management with Pats when I use that engine, that will be a nice chalenge to keep that working :D

I am planning to ditch the management on my TwinTurbo sierra though and go to megasquirt as the TurboTechnics stuff is a bit limited.

TT

hi, I have been modifying cars for years before deciding to build this car. First thing is I know that at the mo everyone is preaching to me but the last post about going mega squirt I have to say something. First though at first I will be using the mondeo wiring loom and have already begun taging and covering all the connector for my easy when they Are removed from the car. Ok if I was going to go custom on my fueling I would go emerald, much more reliable then the mega squirt

mega squirt have a habit of being nothing but grief. I have heard of many stories on my old forums of people using mega squirt and at first it all runs lovely, then disaster when the ecu either just die's or burns something out. The price for emerald ain't that big of deal when you factor in any repair's you will have to make because you used mega squirt

This may be of use

http://enderw88.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/zetec1.jpg

And the gearbox ( yes I know it's a 2WD but you can see how how the driveshaft output relates in terms of the engine)

http://www.burtonpower.com/technical...x75gearbox.jpg

TT