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-   -   Chris's new build of an MX5 based car (http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6206)

CTWV50 4th July 2015 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardH (Post 101075)
did you come up with a solution for the sump yet? just fitted my engine and i dont like how low the sump is to make the engine clear
Hmmm, I thought the same and had a 3mm piece of steel bent to be used as a sump guard, it wasn't a great solution and would pickup stones from my drive and actually come into contact with a lot more stuff. So I took it off. I have actually only grounded my sump out in use on those really short carpark speed bumps, the ones you literally have to go over stupid slow, if I come across these I just carefully push the sump over them :eek: , I mainly just avoid them. The sump has never made contact with any road surface during use and some of the roads round here are pretty bad. Obviously you don't want to let a narrow hump in the road go under the middle of your car but then you are acutely aware of the road surface you are on purely due to the nature of the car.

I thought about shortening the sump but I'm not sure it's needed and the gained clearance is minimal due to the gearbox. What I did do though is fit an oil pressure gauge, warning light and buzzer just incase.

My car has a lowered floor too which means I have to be careful anyway as I'll damage the floor of the car even if a shortened sump clears. I think part of the reason it hasn't been a issue for me is because I spent a lot of time figuring out the front suspension setup so I could retain the full steering travel lock to lock of the the escort rack, a side affect of this was fitting 450lb springs at the front so my car doesn't tend to dive at the front under breaking. I've also fitted 300lb springs at the rear which is a little more than the norm.

HTH

Chris

RichardH 4th July 2015 11:26 AM
thanks for that, i havent bought coilovers yet so i guess that will be the next hing to watch. some of the race cars i deal with have a sump protector bar rather than a sump gaurd that is another idea, the bar is the same height as the sump just four inches further forward so that hits before the sump does, almost sacrificial if you like

CTWV50 4th July 2015 11:28 AM
This is the post about the front suspension all explained best I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTWV50 (Post 96311)
I’ve been asked by a couple of people about why I’ve gone for 13” shocks on the front so I thought I might as well give an explanation on my build thread.

I have been working on the issue of the steering contacting wishbones on full droop. I thought I had resolved this by welding in rack limiters as you can see previously in my build thread. This seemed a good solution to prevent the steering on full lock contacting the front of the wishbones but after driving the car in a space large enough to complete a full turning circle it quickly became apparent that the amount of limiting done to resolve the contact issue was too much. I had something like a 19 metre turning circle which I estimated my using google earth lol! I also couldn’t make left turns without going into the opposite lane of traffic, a bit like a bus. So something had to be done.

I know others have used 14” open shocks and rack limiters and have been happy with the results so I maybe just a one off due to my particular Saturn wishbones and the fact I was using Gaz 14” open shocks and not 13” with a 1” top hat. I don’t know, but my turning circle was unacceptable to me.

As I was so far down the line with build and pretty much committed to using MX5 uprights and saturn wishbones (which I actually can’t see how you could improve for clearance without bending) I decided the issue was droop and I needed to limit that droop. Although I didn’t need to change the shocks to limit droop it seemed daft to keep them and not use their full travel. So as a quick test I fitted the 12” rear dampers but they weren’t able to give a correct ride height without a lot of preload and were giving me next to no droop at all and very little actual suspension. So I bought a set of 13” dampers to see were they would put me.

The 13” dampers worked well I could achieve a good ride height without spring preload and also level wishbones, which I’d not been able to achieve with the 14” dampers and 400lb springs (without them being loose on full droop) I also had plenty of droop and active suspension but I was getting contact again at the very end of the steering lock at full droop. So the options were limit the steering lock again but only by a small amount this time or move the shock bracket on the wishbone to again limit droop a small amount and prevent contact.

Limiting the steering was the easy solution but because I’d gone to all this effort I decided I might as well go the whole way and see were I ended up so off came the wishbone brackets and after a lot of careful measuring and estimation of ride height and droop I got them both tacked back on in the right position. It took three attempts to get the 2nd bracket in the correct location to get matching ride height and no wishbone contact.

By moving the brackets outwards slightly I had changed the ride height the cars front frame bottom rail, it was only 85mm off the ground with no spring preload. I could of put preload into the spring but I thought this would be excessive so I ordered some 450lb springs, which seems like a lot but changing the angle of the shock had increased the leverage on the spring.

I fitted the springs last night and with only hand tightening preload the car sits at a static ride height of 105mm. The springs can still be turned by hand when unloaded from the cars weight and the shock length with the cars weight on them is around 12” in length giving 1” of shock droop. Droop at the wheel though is around 1.5-2". The ride is supple yet firm, obviously I haven’t used the car in the real world so I shall keep hold of the 400lb springs for the time being just incase the ride is too firm at the front.

If you can get away with rack limiting with the wishbones you're using and you're happy with it then that’s the solution. As I’ve said mine was just stupid so I had to do something.

CTWV50 7th July 2015 05:24 PM
Made it out to a local Charity Classic Car Show at the weekend with some friends. All sorts there so I didn't feel out of place, met a Robin Hood owner who has a Haynes chassis in the garage, he's planing a bike engined build so we should see him on here soon. :)


norton 15th July 2015 01:30 AM
Hi, Could I ask please how you managed to get your handbrake cables to clear the chassis at the caliper end?

I have these calipers.



The bracket holding the outer cable is shaped such that the cable has to turn a very tight turn to clear the chassis. and thats with the car sat at a normal ride height so the problem will get worse under compression.

I'm baffled!

CTWV50 15th July 2015 02:05 AM
You need to remove the bracket and bend it a little more in a vice, then shorten the bracket and redrill the mounting hole to bolt it to the calipers. Hope that makes sense. Oh and when you go for your IVA wind the spring collors up on the dampers to make sure they don't touch on the day, skovs, and stots thread have more details.

norton 15th July 2015 03:31 AM
Ah fantastic, thank you!

CTWV50 14th August 2015 10:26 AM
Not done much of late, had the car out a few times but have been distracted by the purchase of my holiday hire bike (cheap, comfy and fast) and the weather. Doing more miles on that than in the car, training for my first Audax event (long distance cycling).

I have been collecting parts for the 1.8 engine fitment. I currently have the new alloy 3 core rad and alloy header tank, need some waterless coolant, some plumbing bits, and a few other bits n bobs but probably going to be a winter project.

norton 14th August 2015 07:47 PM
I think pictures of engine and radiator porn are required...

CTWV50 14th August 2015 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by norton (Post 101453)
I think pictures of engine and radiator porn are required...
LOL, Voyeur like tendencies will be satisfied in due course. :D

norton 18th August 2015 05:41 PM
Hi Chris, did you have any issues with your back wheels touching the upper arm at all?

CTWV50 19th August 2015 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by norton (Post 101495)
Hi Chris, did you have any issues with your back wheels touching the upper arm at all?
Mmm no, unless I just didn't notice have you any pictures? My wheels are 13" but ET38 iirc. edit: make that ET15 doh! They are 20mm further out than stock mx5 wheels offset.

norton 19th August 2015 12:32 PM
Ah et15! That explains it, I need some spacers as mine are et30something.

voucht 19th August 2015 07:29 PM
Norton, I'm pretty sure you know, but just to make sure, for 20mm-ish, choose "double bolts" spacers like this one (sorry, French website, but you will find them in the UK for sure)
http://www.bps-racing.com/elargisseu...-12mm-m3a.html

...or at least some with offset centre bore like these ones.
http://www.bps-racing.com/elargisseu...-20mm-m3a.html

norton 19th August 2015 07:46 PM
Hubcentric ones, yes thats my plan. I'm negotiating with an ebay seller at the moment trying to get the price down as they're :eek: expensive!

Stot 19th August 2015 08:03 PM
Only problem with those is MX5 hubs have studs rather than bolts. For 20mm you are going to want hubcentric with longer studs in the hubs.

Cheers
Stot

voucht 19th August 2015 08:10 PM
"Hubcentric", that's the word! Thanks, I'm learning almost every day out here :)

Yes, they are very expensive, and sometimes, it is cheaper to find other wheels with the right ET...

norton 19th August 2015 08:21 PM
Well, these wheel were £190 for a brand new set of 4 so even if I buy hubs I'll still have saved a bit. I can atleast spacer the wheels to be flush with the rear arches.

Stanced! :rolleyes:

CTWV50 20th August 2015 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by norton (Post 101519)
Well, these wheel were £190 for a brand new set of 4 so even if I buy hubs I'll still have saved a bit. I can atleast spacer the wheels to be flush with the rear arches.

Stanced! :rolleyes:
I only went with ET15 so the rears filled the arches but then I decided it wouldn't hurt to go ET 15 on the front for clearance just incase. Can you not send the wheels back and have them send you a different ET set. I tried spacers with the original mx5 wheels and it just made me feel uneasy when fitted. edit: ET15 on the front with 13" wheels just about allowed use of full escort rack steering lock btw.

Rosco 20th August 2015 11:42 AM
what width "13s are you running?

norton 20th August 2015 11:44 AM
I'l sourced some good quality spacer which if the rear arch drawins are accurate should result a good looking fitment.

13x7 Rosco although a 13x8 would likely be possible on the rear if desired.

CTWV50 20th August 2015 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco (Post 101534)
what width "13s are you running?
7" 185 front 205 rear

CTWV50 12th September 2015 10:17 PM
OUT



I've gotten use to my car and it's performance so time for a change, I finally took the plunge and removed the engine while the sun was still out! And I finally own an engine crane!:)

This 1.6 engine did a full 360 miles in my car, I'm so glad I didn't spend loads of money on it.:D I might even reuse the filter and the oil out of it! lol!

norton 13th September 2015 07:41 PM
What are have you done to the 1800?

CTWV50 14th September 2015 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by norton (Post 101753)
What are have you done to the 1800?
Lighter flywheel (4.5kg), 70mm 3 core radiator and a Mocal oil cooler for now. Oh and a coolant reroute.

CTWV50 29th September 2015 07:33 PM
Engine went in and the bonnet fitted fine. I was shocked I didn't have to do more to clear the bonnet. Had to tit-about quite a bit getting the gearbox and engine together! Then the rope let go of the engine and it dropped all of 5mm on to the steering column extension! :eek: EEK!! No damage done but I need to get a chain or something for next time.







I'm using the 1.6 1995 throttle body hose for connection to the ISV and AFM. Handy.

Ianr 29th September 2015 10:47 PM
That looks good Chris, did you have to do anything with the engine mounts to suit the 1.8 engine? I nearly bought a 1.8 car a few days ago with the intention of doing exactly what you are :) :) :) nearly - I was outbid by a Belgian bidder

CTWV50 30th September 2015 09:11 AM
Bloody Belgians! Coming over here! Buying our donor cars! Lol!

The engine just dropped straight in, excuse the pun! Had to weld in a lambda boss to the downpipe and weld up the EGR port on the manifold but the exhaust itself bolted straight up, which was nice!







Got the AFM mounted with a new Universal K&N Cone Filter. Which matched the body work. Which again was nice!



Horns now mounted out the way to make way for the BIG rad!

CTWV50 1st October 2015 03:18 PM


I've fitted a Mocal thermostatic oil cooler, yes I did use the the old engines oil and filter! Lol



Pipes I bought were equal length so they took an interesting natural route to the cooler itself. Self supporting themselves on the bottom rails.



The cooler itself is fixed behind the the radiator, supported top and bottom with nylock nuts and m6 threaded bar.



I know the oil cooler would be best fitted up against the front of the radiator but this suited my current installation better for now and it is in a high airflow location anyway so should be fine.

CTWV50 2nd October 2015 10:34 PM
I've mounted the new BIG rad in the same position for now but I have worked out I can fit it a' la' Stot in the future. I've decided to skip the coolant reroute for now to see how the car and temps behave.



Got my header tank mounted high and central as possible, all shiny and new.



And finally got all the plumbing sorted, I've run the filler to the front hose to prevent any air locks and the pressure relief hose runs down with the speedo cable to under the gearbox. So if I ever do overheat no water will enter or go near the electrics which was an issue with the vw polo header tank.

metal matt 3rd October 2015 08:02 AM
Up grade looking good there Chris. But I must ask, are you going to brave the colder weather to give it a test run and I have been tempted to upgrade my RAD to a nice shine alloy one.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124541083@N02/

CTWV50 3rd October 2015 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal matt (Post 101885)
Up grade looking good there Chris. But I must ask, are you going to brave the colder weather to give it a test run and I have been tempted to upgrade my RAD to a nice shine alloy one.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124541083@N02/
The last few post have been retrospective, I already have, and it's been quite warm and pleasant for September.

But I tell you what I nearly locked up the garage and let it be for 6 months when the wiring looked like this!!!

CTWV50 5th October 2015 12:38 PM
So I got it all sorted out. Wiring got a little bit much and I nearly made a possibly fatal error by wiring the B/W tacho wire to the B/W engine fuse wire, luckily I realised my error before connecting up the battery. Also mixed up the wires on my oil alarm so it went off as soon as you turned on the ignition. I'd wired it to the L/R ignition wire rather than the L/R fuel pump wire from the fuel pump relay. doh! Also my oil pressure gauge didn't work when I first turned it over. Couldn't figure out why but then I realised I'd earthed the body of the sender when I'd repositioned it. Ha! Soldered a wire to earth from the body of the sender which solved that issue.




It wouldn't start initially but it was struggling to turn over. I hooked up a 2nd battery and to my surprise it fired up about 9pm on a Saturday. Sounded terrible though due to the lack of oil in the hydraulic tappets. Turned it off a few times thinking I didn't have oil pressure but no, it was just sticking tappets. Let it warm up and then revved it a bit and it was fine.



I still had loads of wires to shorten but before I got stuck in I decided to look for error codes using the LED trick. This got quite interesting as I was getting three error codes, 11, 14, 22. Two of these didn't exist in the two digit error list which was confusing. I found someone else on the internet with the same three errors. 14 is an ecu internal barometric sensor error.

http://www.mazdamenders.net/index.ph...ult-codes.html



The dot/dash combination was -.-....--.. then a long pause. I knew that later cars had ODBII but this car had no OBDII port so assumed it was not OBDII.

Any how after a while I thought I'd look up some OBDII codes and discovered that a faulty coolant temp sensor should be P0115.

http://engine-codes.com/p0115_mazda.html

So then I pulled the rear green engine coolant sensor. I got the same previous error but also got another set of three digits

21,11,15 or --.-.-.....

so there was plenty of ones and fives in there but also these tens and a twenty. Eventually I figures out a dash - wasn't ten but was intact a separator so...

-- was two separators with no digit in the middle so that would be zero so I was actually getting -0-1-1-5 which was the correct code for the coolant temp sensor. I then looked up P1402 or -1-4-0-2 and found it was an erg issue.

http://engine-codes.com/p1402_mazda.html

I'd had the EGR device plugged into the loom to prevent any errors but it appeared removing the sensor from the alloy body had allowed the plunger to fully extend causing the error.

So 3 hours later I'd resolved the fault codes and could then carry on shortening the wires happy that all the wiring was OK.

What a palaver! :)

SteveH1 6th October 2015 07:20 PM
Nice build.
Where did you get the header tank from
Thanks
Stephen

Rosco 7th October 2015 08:27 AM
looks really neat! i love how clean it all looks!

Ianr 7th October 2015 09:38 AM
Its very interesting to see how your engine fitting compares with mine Chris. I don't know where you got the room for the battery where it is. As always brilliantly put together. Are you still using the same ECU or is it another for the 1.8 (I ask co I may be doing the same sometime)? :)

CTWV50 7th October 2015 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH1 (Post 101927)
Nice build.
Where did you get the header tank from
Thanks
Stephen
From a company called compbrake. Fairly expensive but clean and neat and of high quality. Any over pressure is dealt with by the cap which has an 8mm spout you can direct away from the electrics and engine bay. The polo one would just spit it out the back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco (Post 101930)
looks really neat! i love how clean it all looks!
Cheers, it's amazing what you can do when you have time on your hands. I did most of it whilst waiting for the DVLA. It's probably the cleanest engine I've ever had inside and out. I used simonz silver alloy wheel paint from halfards to paint most of the parts and a hightemp silver paint for the exhaust which seems to be holding up well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ianr (Post 101934)
Its very interesting to see how your engine fitting compares with mine Chris. I don't know where you got the room for the battery where it is. As always brilliantly put together. Are you still using the same ECU or is it another for the 1.8 (I ask co I may be doing the same sometime)? :)
No I had to wire in the 1.8 donors ECU, just a case of routing and shortening wires and trying to figure out which wires go to the back and to the fuse box. Every year of MX5 seems to be different and god know why they use same colour and stripe wires for different things like the engine fuse B/W and tach wire or the L/R ignition live but also fuel pump relay to pump wire. Took a week of every spare hour to get it all wired up neat.

The battery is a quality bike battery I think it's a varley redtop 20 or 25 I forget. Very compact and just there to start the engine really. It wasn't that expensive at the time but still a lot for a battery. Thanks for the compliments guys. Nice to know someones still reading my thread.:)

Sorry what am I saying!!! It's an Odyssey Extreme Racing 25 Battery - PC680 , I think i was just looking at the varleys at the time!! Doh!

norton 7th October 2015 02:31 PM
Has the lighter flywheel made it rev up more snappily?

CTWV50 7th October 2015 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by norton (Post 101936)
Has the lighter flywheel made it rev up more snappily?
It's hard to say as I didn't drive this car with this engine without it but I can say that it feels more in balance with the weight of the car. When you come of the throttle there is definitely more engine braking due to the lower rotating mass. No downsides to it really. Initial off then line acceleration is more brutal and dramatic I'd say with this engine and in corners you can't just plant your foot down without some opposite lock action. Which makes the car more exciting to drive.

My friend was around at the weekend and we went for a quick blast. I asked his opinion on the speed of the thing and asked what it compared to. He's a car nut and has experience of lots of different cars and also works for Mazda. He described it as being a similar experience to, well here is the text.....,

"Trying to think of something to compare the off the mark acceleration to your car.
Came up with the time i was on the back of a Kawasaki gsr 1100.
; ) "

So although I judge the increase in speed and excitement as fairly mild compared to the previous engine. Others would say otherwise.

norton 7th October 2015 05:47 PM
A solid result then, well done!

But, what next...


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