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-   -   Upright machining? (http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=3429)

twinturbo 10th January 2010 09:37 AM

Upright machining?
 
Does the front upright need machining for the bottom ball joint?

Who can do this?

Has anyone tried usink the MK2 astra one as I belive it has the correct taper.

TT

flyerncle 10th January 2010 09:56 AM

Ream it by hand, Axminster do the reamer for pennies.

Talonmotorsport 10th January 2010 09:58 AM

Yes the bottom ball joint holes needs reaming out to take the maxi ball joint. Axminster tools do the reamer for less than £10. Not sure about using FWD Astra uprights as it might be more trouble than it's worth moding them to remove the CV cup from the drive flange? MX5 uprights are very simular to Cortina uprights and the Maxi ball joint is a direct fit. How ever you still need to ream the top holes to take the transit drag link, so you still need to ream them but save the cost of the mushrooms and their lighter.

flyerncle 10th January 2010 10:01 AM

He's talking about the astra ball joint I think and not the complete hub.geometry would be totally different with GM parts.

twinturbo 10th January 2010 10:10 AM

Anyone got a link to this reamer?

I did mean the astra bottom ball joint, it has the same taper as the sierra.

TT

dogwood 10th January 2010 10:15 AM

Cheap as chips, and do the job superb..
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...sfile=1&jump=0

Take care though, easy to over do it.

twinturbo 10th January 2010 10:28 AM

And the taper is correct on those?

Which one is correct the 19mm or 12mm??

TA

TT

Talonmotorsport 10th January 2010 10:33 AM

Silly me. You'll need the 19mm reamer as the taper is 14-16mm if I remember correctly.

dogwood 10th January 2010 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talonmotorsport (Post 28754)
Silly me. You'll need the 19mm reamer as the taper is 14-16mm if I remember correctly.

Silly you? silly me..:rolleyes:
Yes 19mm and yes makes a good fit

David

twinturbo 10th January 2010 10:42 AM

and the taper angle is correct with those?

Cheers

TT

dogwood 10th January 2010 10:50 AM

Yup.:D
Seemed to be perfek.
Hard to beleive for £3.85,
especialy as some people want 20 quid for the mod

twinturbo 10th January 2010 10:55 AM

so when reamed, the OD of the lower hole should be at 16mm.

Cool.

Cheers

TT

dogwood 10th January 2010 11:03 AM

See, now you getting complicated.:D

When I did mine I kept doing a bit then tested it, till I got about half the thread through.
So when I tightened it up it pulled in snug without the thread bottoming out.

Not sure, but think if you did it till the bottom was 16mm it may be too much.
You will need someone that has done one recently to be sure.

HandyAndy 10th January 2010 12:09 PM

i did mine as Dogwood suggests,

a little at a time, keep checking that you haven,t gone too far,

takes about 10 mins per upright, do it like tapping a thread, half turn in quarter turn back.... keeps the cutting edge of the reamer clean of swarf & helps get a clean cut on the steel. ;)

cheers
andy

twinturbo 10th January 2010 12:16 PM

Sounds easy enough, I just remember when I started a Locost back in 2004 that this was one of the difficult bits to get done ( or there was no information ). Which is why I bought Astra bottom ball joints.

I gave up that build due to a number of issues and sold the chassi.. I got an email last year from the guy that bougt the bits saying he needed a quick letter to state the chassis was new as he was about to register the car :D

TT

twinturbo 10th January 2010 04:12 PM

Which was the question i was asking. is the taper the correct angle. Seems there is some doubt..

TT

twinturbo 10th January 2010 07:34 PM

Anyone got one to measure then?

TT

RAYLEE29 10th January 2010 08:34 PM

I used the 19mm Axminster one set up in the pillar drill and kept cutting and checking till i was happy with the fit basiclly full nut and washer of thread sticking out the top and the largest bit of the taper just visible below the upright.
The taper is a good enough fit that after only tightening a little the need to be tapped to get back off.
Ray:)

twinturbo 10th January 2010 08:53 PM

That still does not answer the question though. Is the taper of the axminster reamer the correct angle to match the ball joint taper?

The taper on the joint should be paralel to the taper in the hole otherwise there will be a loose fit at one end or the other.

TT

Davey 10th January 2010 09:09 PM

A couple of points are coming to light here, firstly the question of the correct taper, I'm using Granada uprights and I'll check them for the taper before I go reaming anything out. Secondly is a comment someone made about using a reamer, you do not use it like a tap. You should never turn a reamer backeards as it blunts the cutting edge. With a tapered reamer you simply lift it out of the hole every so often while turning it forwards.

D.

RAYLEE29 10th January 2010 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinturbo (Post 28806)
That still does not answer the question though. Is the taper of the axminster reamer the correct angle to match the ball joint taper?

The taper on the joint should be paralel to the taper in the hole otherwise there will be a loose fit at one end or the other.

TT

Sorry you didnt understand my post inmo the taper is perfect
im sure there are hundreds if not thousands of kit cars on the road that have uprights modded using this reamer
but if your not confident to do the job yourself get it done by someone who is
Ray:)

RAYLEE29 10th January 2010 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey (Post 28810)
A couple of points are coming to light here, firstly the question of the correct taper, I'm using Granada uprights and I'll check them for the taper before I go reaming anything out. Secondly is a comment someone made about using a reamer, you do not use it like a tap. You should never turn a reamer backeards as it blunts the cutting edge. With a tapered reamer you simply lift it out of the hole every so often while turning it forwards.

D.

whilst i agree with what you say it is a known practice to run reamers backwards in some situations doing so can give a tighter hole size especially if the reamer is new and could cut oversize due to being too keen obviously you need to know what your doing so unless your an experienced engineer dont try it at home
Ray:)

twinturbo 10th January 2010 09:29 PM

I guess if they are not falling out then there must be a good amount of interferranc along the length ot the taper.

I am quite confident doing it so long as the tool is right for the job.

TT

RAYLEE29 10th January 2010 09:32 PM

mine worked fine:)

HandyAndy 10th January 2010 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAYLEE29 (Post 28814)
mine worked fine:)

mine too :)

andy

flyerncle 10th January 2010 09:34 PM

Me three no probs :)

twinturbo 10th January 2010 10:22 PM

Cheers.

so it would be a fraction of a mm over the distance we are talking about.

TT

Davey 10th January 2010 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAYLEE29 (Post 28812)
whilst i agree with what you say it is a known practice to run reamers backwards in some situations doing so can give a tighter hole size especially if the reamer is new and could cut oversize due to being too keen obviously you need to know what your doing so unless your an experienced engineer dont try it at home
Ray:)

A reamer can't cut oversize unless its in the hands of an ape. That's the whole point of a reamer, to accurately make a hole to specified size. And I stand by my comment that a reamer should never be turned backwards, ever!

D.

RAYLEE29 11th January 2010 12:28 AM

Davey this is a forum and your entitled to your opinion
but im right and your wrong lol
never mind moving on
.3mm is about 12thou so over 8cm is about 1.5 over 1cm so not really alot in it to worry about
so either should be fine
Ray:)

Davey 11th January 2010 07:52 AM

Ray I'll agree to disagree with you:D . I do agree about the taper, its close enough to not be an issue.

D.

Talonmotorsport 11th January 2010 09:20 AM

Thank god thats all over.......so about this reamer where's it from and what does it do again??? only joking :D :p :rolleyes:

twinturbo 11th January 2010 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talonmotorsport (Post 28843)
Thank god thats all over.......so about this reamer where's it from and what does it do again??? only joking

/
It cuts a hole the wrong shape, but the differance over the distance is so small it does not matter. :D

It's available from all good carpet suppliers by all accounts. :p

TT

Peter-C 26th February 2010 09:57 PM

To save me trolling through all the build photos, has anyone got a photo with the ball joint attached ?

Cheers

Peter

AshG 26th February 2010 11:23 PM

I was in axminster tools today the shop is only 2 mins down the road from me.

i worked this out ages ago im sure i posted it up. the axminster reamer is very very slightly off but i worked it out to be about 0.15mm out at the bottom of the taper over the thickness of the sierra hub that your reaming. rather than it being a pure 100% fit it was about 87% will see if i can find the cad drawing i did. was on my old laptop but i think i still have it.

either way there is more than enough material in contact. there is no chance it is ever going to wobble around in a thousand years.

don't forget if your reaming it out by hand you will never get a 100% perfect taper even with the perfect reamer.

AshG 26th February 2010 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandyAndy (Post 28769)
i did mine as Dogwood suggests,

a little at a time, keep checking that you haven,t gone too far,

takes about 10 mins per upright, do it like tapping a thread, half turn in quarter turn back.... keeps the cutting edge of the reamer clean of swarf & helps get a clean cut on the steel. ;)

cheers
andy



thats funny andy if you look at this quote of yours back in august you said it took you 15mins a side :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandyAndy (Post 20229)
took me about 15 minutes for eachside by hand, just keep checking that you don,t go too far,
whilst turning the reamer just keep downwards pressure on it so that it is actually cutting.

andy:)

thats a sign of working too many long hours, you loose all perspective of time :D

Big Vern 26th February 2010 11:36 PM

1992 - 1995 Cavalier has exact same taper/pin dimensions to the one in the Sierra TCA. I used it on a previous project years ago :D though it would require a slight redesign of the lower wishbone.

As for hand reaming the taper I'm guessing the hand reamer has the same 14°taper as the ball joint but how can the hand reamer be accurately controlled to prevent it 'wobbling' as you ream? I didn't think this type of tool was for reaming such a deep hole with required level of accuracy.
I thought it was for de-burring holes and providing 'lead' in to holes :confused:

BV.

AshG 26th February 2010 11:55 PM

i cant seem to find one where it was fully finished but here you go. you need to ream it deep enough so that the rubber is almost touching the hub. i did the first one by hand. even though i through drilled it before i started, it still took about 30 mins. the second one i couldn't be arsed with so clamped the buggar on the cross slide vice and done it on the lathe, still took a while but didnt kill my hand and the result was much better.









if anyone wants i can sell you a made to order, modified axminster reamer that will fit in a 13mm chuck. £12 including postage.

Big Vern 26th February 2010 11:59 PM

Hi Ash,
Did you put the ream in the chuck and clamp the upright to the Xslide?
I need to do something similar with the top for the MX-5 uprights to take the Tranny van ball joint.

BV.

AshG 27th February 2010 12:18 AM

yes i have clamp attachments for my cross slide, so reamer in the chuck line it up an off we go. it put a fair bit of stress on the lathe but keeping the rpm down and plenty of oil helped. after doing it i decided that a better method would have been to turn the end of the reamer down to 13mm so it would fit in the chuck on the pillar drill.

Peter-C 27th February 2010 01:35 PM

Cheers Ash for the photos, exactly what I wanted.

Peter


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