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-   -   IVA results (http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=3700)

AshG 23rd February 2010 04:50 PM

Ronnie I would be ready for a retest to be honest as the tester at Gillingham said nobody with a kit car ever passes first time, even if you make adjustments on the day that is still not considered as first time pass apparently.

hi vern the intake system is bike carbs they do have filters but they are minimal at best.

i will be playing about with different exit angles and different methods of noise suppression. I tried a bike can on the exhaust just to see if it made a difference and with the bike re-stricter that is built into the can it made the volume so low that the engine was much louder than the exhaust. once i have the db meter i will carry out some tests before and after to see how much i can actually get it down by without over restricting the flow.

Bonzo 23rd February 2010 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshG (Post 32297)
Ronnie I would be ready for a retest to be honest as the tester at Gillingham said nobody with a kit car ever passes first time, even if you make adjustments on the day that is still not considered as first time pass apparently.

Fully expecting a re-test Ash .... I can dream though ;) :)

Realisticaly, i'll not be ready for IVA before spring next year :o

Not wanting to sound too callous, hopefully a clearer picture of what the examiners are expecting will emerge ..... To come home with a MAC certificate on the day will be a bonus .... Even if I have to jump hoops to get it :)

AshG 24th February 2010 11:16 PM

been looking in to this db thing and its got to be done to db A

went to my mates tonight and got this db meter its a top of the line super duper calibrated thingy. im guessing it will be more accurate than the one vosa use as they use this puppie on planes as they have to keep them under a certain db so they dont piss off the people living around the field.

luckily the patch is totally waterlogged at the moment so i can keep hold of it for a wile

p.s it looks expensive so i better be careful with it.

Big Vern 24th February 2010 11:54 PM

"I would be ready for a retest to be honest as the tester at Gillingham said nobody with a kit car ever passes first time"

This is something the kit car world will have to get used to. The way the IVA is implemented is slightly different to the SVA as the SVA was only intended as a temporary measure.

The IVA will be 'tinkered' with, and updated by the VOSA on a regular basis keeping it up to date (closing loopholes etc), as is the case with the whole vehicle type approval.

For this reason it will be unlikely that anyone building a one off or kit car will pass first time and that needs to be taken into account at the begining of the build.

We see from Ash's experience that there is information the testers have in their manuals and training which seems not to be available to the general public. :mad: (i.e. I cannot find anything in the IVA manual about the required E marking of the side indicators - yet Ash recieved a fail and an explaination of why they failed).

And we also see differences between the way the same tests in the SVA and IVA are carried out - as in Ash's mirrors!

In my opinion it is essential for each of us who goes through the IVA test to report on our experiences so as to give those who follow the greatest chance of getting through but all who 'take the test' will need to prepare for that first failure:(

BV.

AshG 25th February 2010 09:10 AM

I think its just a case of sharing our experience with others in the aim that we can reduce their fail sheets.

At the end of the day its all new to everyone so we are just going to have to find new ways of passing the regulations.

personally im very happy that i come away with such a minor fail list. i didnt expect the car to pass first time and expected a retest.

I used adrian's experiences of his test to prepare for mine. i can tell you now it really helped as i didnt have any of the same problems as adrian because i addressed them prior to the test.

the iva isnt intended for these types of cars and as such, is a difficult thing to pass. that's not to say its impossible.

Bonzo 28th February 2010 03:59 PM

Hows it going Ash ?
 
How is the work progressing on your Roadster Ash ? ..... Hopefully, you'll be nearing the end of your to do list !! :cool:

I like the solution that you have implemented to overcome the steering shaft issue .... That'll do the job nicely :)

Have you given any thoughts to the timescale of your re-test ? ...... You must be really exited about having the Roadster, road legal in the very near future :) :)

AshG 28th February 2010 09:57 PM

nearly done everything now ronnie. tried to remove the glass out of my r1 mirrors to replace it with a convex one today. borke the standard glass getting it out, then after hours of messing about with a diamond cutting disc and water bath managed to shape the new convex mirror to fit in the r1 mirror housing only to crack the bloody thing. im so pissed off i want to smash the car up.

have just bit the bullet and bought a set of westfield mirrors at stupid expense, if I cant pass with those then im guessing I will need to attach a bathroom mirror as I don't think you can get a bigger car mirror.

hope to get it in for retest either by the end of this week or early next week, just want the bloody thing done now.

deezee 28th February 2010 10:04 PM

Swap you for measuring a side panel wrong and cutting a hole for the lower wishbone in the wrong place. Had to make an entirely new side panel. It was totally awesome..... and by awesome, I mean I could have cried.

How did you get around the rear roll bar support? Mine is as per the book and it sounds like this might be a failure point. Although I can't see anything in the manual to support the testers claim!

Bonzo 28th February 2010 10:14 PM

So sorry to hear that bit of bad luck Ash :(

I can 100% understand you frustration mate .... Sometimes things just seem to conspire against you, at least it feels that way.

Chin up Ash .... When you are holding that MAC certificate , you'll be grinnig from ear to ear :cool:

Let's hope when we meet at Stonelegh, you'll be able to look back at all of the low points of the build & smile in the knowledge that I will still have all of that to come ;)

AshG 28th February 2010 10:49 PM

have welded the roll bar backstays to the chassis. was a complete bitch to get in there with the welder without taking the top panel off. (to get my top panel off you have to remove the roll bar then the top panel) basically means that my top panel or roll bar can never be removed but im willing to trade it for an IVA pass.

Enoch 2nd March 2010 08:52 AM

Hey, Ash, did the examiner tell you on what point within the manual that your bolted on roll bar actually failed? I can't see under what basis he could have failed it. As far as I know that design is accepted by race series, the bracket is gusseted so as long as a lock nut is used I can't see on what basis he failed it. It might help others if we knew where in the manual it states that one bolt is not acceptable.
Thanks in advance,
Enoch.

dogwood 2nd March 2010 09:01 AM

Hi Enoch

Try this....:mad: :mad:

He reckons in an accident the seatbelts, firstly would bend the cross bar then pull out the back stays.........

Leave it to you to comment...:rolleyes:

Bonzo 2nd March 2010 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogwood (Post 32873)

He reckons in an accident the seatbelts, firstly would bend the cross bar then pull out the back stays.........

What's happening with the main hoop when all of this is going on with the cross brace & back stays :confused: :confused:

Given the yeild/shear strength of 2 X M10 8.8 Bolts :eek: In the event of an impact large enough to exert that sort of forces ...... Probably have a lot more to worry about than the roll bar !!?? :rolleyes:

deezee 2nd March 2010 09:32 AM

Thats crazy! Its like complaining that the front of the car won't protect you from going nose first off a cliff. If you in a collision with enough force to bend that steel, your proper dead.

AshG 2nd March 2010 09:50 AM

well its welded now so there isnt any debate, its never coming off the chassis will snap before the roll bar :D not too worried as it will probably stiffen up the back end a bit.

Bonzo 2nd March 2010 09:59 AM

Nice one Ash :cool:

At the end of the day ..... We can only act on the advice that is freely given by the tester on the day :)

Have you got the new mirrors yet ? .... How's your noise level now you have packed the can !?

Nearly there Ash .... Soon be on the road & looking great :) :)

AshG 2nd March 2010 10:19 AM

got the noise down from 106 to 89db there was naff all wadding in the can when i opened it up.

nope not got them yet, expecting them today. haven't been out to the workshop yet as the outside door bell batteries are dead. I was contemplating running down to the local garage to get some more batteries but knowing my luck they will turn up when im out getting them.

postie usually comes around 11:30ish most days so im gonna stay in the kitchen this morning and have a full works fry up. :D

Bonzo 2nd March 2010 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshG (Post 32883)

postie usually comes around 11:30ish most days so im gonna stay in the kitchen this morning and have a full works fry up. :D


You have been & made me feel hungry now ..... Sure I can smell bacon frying .... All I had was a slice of toast n a glass of OJ :D :D

That's certainly a marked reduction in the noise level ..... Just goes to show the worth of some decent packing :cool:

AshG 2nd March 2010 10:43 AM

well i must admit putting the bonnet on shaved off 5db. completely forgot to put it back on for the actual test so didn't do myself any favours.

so technically i could have passed an sva with the bonnet on at 101db but still wouldn't have been good enough to pass iva.

Enoch 2nd March 2010 11:53 AM

Thanks guys. You have to wonder what sort of remains would be left of your body if you had an accident big enough to do that sort of damage. I guess they are thinking about if you turned the car over but there you go. Sadly there is no point arguing, you just have to do what "the man" says.
Best of luck with the retest, Ash.

AshG 2nd March 2010 12:26 PM

to be honest i didnt think it was an unfair request. he did say i could add another bolt or weld it. i chose to weld it because its stronger and easier to do.

they are only concerned about safety at the end of the day. if his suggestions make my car safer then it cant be a bad thing. its not ideal that I cant take the roll bar off if i want to. but then again would i ever need to?

Big Vern 2nd March 2010 01:45 PM

Hi Ash,
Does this mean the roll bar is essential and the two rear stays are a requirement? or are the stays required because you have a roll bar?
I couldn't see anything in the IVA manual that said you had to have a roll bar!:confused:
It had occurred to me that all that would be required would be a suitable brace across to mount the harnesses from would get the car through the IVA the you could have what ever roll bar you liked after that....:D

BV

Bonzo 2nd March 2010 03:29 PM

I guess this is not a roll bar issue as such ??!!

The act of placing the top harness mounts on part of the roll bar structure, brings this into the area of: Seat belt mountings, structure & security !!

In this case, one can only assume that in the examiners view. the upper seat belt anchor point & it's associated structure was deemed unacceptable & lacked integrity or strength in a critical area :confused:

One thing to bear in mind is ..... Not all of the IVA requirements are set in stone.

As with the humble MOT test .... A lot of rules & regs are open to the examiners personal point of view as to how they should be implimented .... This is probably suplimented by memos from individual station managers, VOSSA head office & the department of Transport :eek:

I expect any MOT tester will tell you that it's not an easy job .... Dread to think how the IVA examiners cope !!??

AshG 2nd March 2010 05:30 PM

nail on the head ronnie. he was looking at it not as a roll bar but as a seatbelt mounting point. if you dont have a roll bar they will assess the seatbelt anchorages where ever you put them.

i personally would prefer them to be on the roll bar than the rear frame as the roll bar is much stronger.

flyerncle 2nd March 2010 06:30 PM

We have been down this road previously, IVA and MOT have methods of inspection and reasons for rejection and are available to anyone to read, add the human element and it all goes breasts skyward.
Brake pipes are failed for being rusty,not the criteria ! Excessive corrosion is the fail and the human interpretation of the criteria is the problem.
Nothing in the above has anything to with IVA but is merely trying to illustrate the problems with the human element of testing and I personally think Ash is to be praised for his attitude towards the tester and IVA as some would think its a personal vendetta when the guy is just doing a job and there are many horror storys to be told about certain VOSA stations who do have a problem with kit cars.

Big Vern 2nd March 2010 06:41 PM

Oh I totally agree Flyerncle,
I was simply trying to establish whether it is a requirement of open top cars to have a roll bar, (my MX-5, as standard, doesn't and nor does the latest version!) and if a roll bar is a requirement does it have to have rear diagonal braces?
ie a bit like the windscreen - if you don't have one for the IVA then there's a whole bunch of stuff you don't need and therefore can't fail on:D :D

BV.

flyerncle 2nd March 2010 06:44 PM

An opening windscreen needs no wipers.(For MOT purposes) Silly or what.:rolleyes:

I have not read all the IVA manual but would think if its not there it cant be tested and safety items should be a fail if not there and rightly so.

spud69 2nd March 2010 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshG (Post 32893)
to be honest i didnt think it was an unfair request. he did say i could add another bolt or weld it. i chose to weld it because its stronger and easier to do.

they are only concerned about safety at the end of the day. if his suggestions make my car safer then it cant be a bad thing. its not ideal that I cant take the roll bar off if i want to. but then again would i ever need to?

I think you've just hit the nail on the head there Ash, my 3 minor failures where more related to safety of the car and i was actually pleased that he had pointed them out and i could rectify them.

Prior to the SVA my attitude was that the test was a chore that had to be gone through and get the car passed the satin's slaves but i was glad to go through the process and gave me confidence that the car was structurally sound and safe the examiner being a good down to earth bloke. At the time the SVA was a bloody good value and thorough safety inspection of the build, the only main issue now to me is the excessive cost.

After-all we'll all be racing around with our friends and family in the car and want it to be safe.

AndyH

flyerncle 2nd March 2010 08:18 PM

I see where you are coming from Vern and cant remember seeing an open top car sports or otherwise wearing an out and out roll bar other than one that has been added cosmetically,they get thinly disguised behind the headrests of the seat's as roll hoops and work in conjuntion with the airbags system.

The only exception that comes to mind is the Boxster and that has a complete bar that is bolted to the floor but again covers the headrests.


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