Ignition relay
 

Hi all,

been wiring the engine today so hopefully all correct (cheers for the diagrams Ash).
After a few initial problems I managed to turn the engine - positive and neg connected and a live feed from the battery (in place of the ignition switch).

Problem being when i connect the ignition feed up and turn the ignition nothing happens. Looking at the relay - seems i've been a bit heavy handed when reducing the loom (removing excess) and I think the relay is kaput!

Will bypassing the relay and putting in a starter button (but still retaining the ignition switch for IVA) have any long term effects??

haha, Ive done exactly that, and cut too much off the loom, and now there's only 1 wire left on the ignition relay:D , i havnt thought about what im going to do about, it, but for the time being, im just going to try and get the engine running.

I had my concerns when I did it (obviously i didn't know what it supplied, just thought it was one of those i was trying to remove).

Just been out and shorted the relay terminals, tried the ignition and it turned with no overheating,sparks etc.

So I can't see why i cannot just substitute for a push button (heavy duty of course). We'll see, i'll standby to be corrected.:)

Wonder what else 've cut out??????????

Theres no relay for the starter.

Except on later cars where it was an imobaliser relay.

TT

Book says there is, fuse box as one, tested and all wires (ones left) connect with the ignition switch, battery and start solenoid.

Tested relay - no readings.

Its a J plate, did have immobiliser - removed it.

What relay are you looking at, if it's XII then that's the Imobaliser/ Auto Inhibit relay.

This was not present on pre-90 none automatic cars and uses a jumper bar to short terminals 86 and 87 in the relay position.

You can either hunt in the scrappy for one of the jumper bars, or connect the terminals with a flying lead. Or connect them via a conceled kill switch for added theft prevention.

TT

TT,

not wanting to question ur knowledge but the book does say ignition relay.

I removed the hybrid system and the immobiliser (after market one).

Was thinking of a starter button but the kill switch sounds better then I can hide it.:D

i haven't got a relay on mine it just comes straight off the ignition switch. take some pictures and post them up please.

I,ve used a kill switch ( red key thingy :o ),

it can also be explained that it is part of the required second anti theft device for IVA.

cheers
andy

Right when you say you turn the key and nothing happens what so you mean?

The ignition relay is for the IGNITION fed systems and not for the starter.

TT

two forms of immob are your ignition key and steering lock thats all you need. forget what the haynes book says its pants. just do it like it shows in the diagram sent you and everything will work as it should.

Where do you store the baton though?...always bothered me that has:o

I have sorted it now (hopefully), looking at Geemans post on wiring I think we are on the same subject.

It may well be part of the immobiliser? Tried removing most of it (again hopefully). May find more stuff to make my day.

If I short where the relay was, the engine turns when i turn the key as it should. So i'll fit a kill switch (HandyA) or just short it permanently???

Cheers for the feedback though.:)

yep were at the same stage, but i have shorted out the relay so the starter solenoid is going directly to the ignition lead, and the way i see it, although i am probably wrong, is that the when the 12v live feed on the ignition (black yellow) is grounded the engine is switched off? at least that's what i think. ill give it a go today to see if i can get it started at last, but both my batteries are flat:(

Black and Yellow should not be grounded.

RED feed the ignition switch from the battery fused link.

Black + yellow ( position 2 - engine run) Feeds some fuses and the ingnition relay. This is designated circuit 15-x ( x being sub-circuit numbers )

Don't confuse ignition with starting they are two seperate circuits

Starting is circuit 50-x Which is black and Blue from the ignition switch to the inhibit/anti-theft relay and then black and blue to solder joint S-1039 which acording to the data is near the rear WashWipe motor loom where it becomes black and red untill the starter motor.

TT

how do you kill the engine then? i thought you just remove +v from black yellow, thats what it looked like to me?

also when you switch the key off, what happens to black/yellow then?

When you switch the ignition switch off the +12V supply on the Black and Yellow is switched off but it's not grounded.

TT

ok, goood, thats what ive done. Now, its rturning over fully but not starting, the black/yellow is correct as when i put it on, theres 12v at pin 10 of the hybrid ignition module. ALso, in the auto trans relay did you say to short pins 86 and 87, as ive also shorted it to pin 30 on the relay to connect it to the starter solenoid?

One Caviat..

On some of the injection engines, like the 2.9. A circuit ( 50-7 on the 2.9 ) is fed from the starter circuit during crank. In that case it goes to the TFi module and alters the timing advance to make the eninge start easier.

But on the 1.8 Carbed CVH it's not present.

TT

hmmm.. ok, i also remembered yesterday you mentionted the 4,6, and 8 pin pulgs, i have nowhere to connect the 8 pin one to?

I would leave pin 30 Disconected on the Inhibit relay. It should be redundant with 86 & 87 Joined.

TT

8 pin is not used on the Early 1.8CVH loom from what I can see , if you Dont have realy XI then the 8 pin will not be in use.

TT

[quote=twinturbo;33353]I would leave pin 30 Disconected on the Inhibit relay. It should be redundant with 86 & 87 Joined.

TT[/QUOT:confused: :confused: ,
If i left pin 30 disconnected, what does the blue/black wire form the ignition switch go, as ive connected pin 30 to the blue/black wire? i think thats wrong now that you explain it to me.

Also REALLY THANKS FOR THE HELP!!!!!:o ;)

Ok, Ford in their wisdom have 2 verisons of the diagram

Diag 3A for "Automatic Cars"
Diag 3B for "2.0 DOHC Cars"

No Diag for non Auto cars or non DOHC cars is specified....

I plumped for the latter :D


Sounds like the CVH must conform to 3A instead, in which case

Circuit 50- from the switch (SW-BL ) does indeed go to Relay XII pin 30. And in non auto form would be Jumpered to pin 87 also (SW-BL).

Forget the other two pins :D

TT

hmm, that makes me think how the xii relay was turned on, as i cant seem to get it to. oh well, ill keep trying

your all making this a lot harder than it has to be. every wire coming out of the ignition switch is positive none of them go to ground.

1.) bolt a big fat red wire from the + terminal on the battery to big terminal on the starter

2.) bolt a big fat black wire to the - of the battery, then to anywhere on the engine

3.) extend the thick red wire from the ignition barrel and attach it to the + of the battery.

4.) extend the slightly less fat blue and black wire from the ignition barrel and connect it to the smaller terminal on the starter motor.

when you turn the key the starter motor should now run and turn the engine over.


the big fat black wire on the ignition barrel is a + and goes to the fuse box to power all the rest of the electrics on the car. this turns on and off with the key.

the little yellow wire also + and is for things like radios etc and also goes on and off with the key.

all you then need to do is give the ignition module box a live feed off the black wire on the back of the ignition barrel. connect the ignition module to the dizzy coil pack and ballast resistor hook up the ht leads and it should run.


and finally forget relays you dont need them for this part of the electrics as all the switch gear is man enough to take the required currents.

yep, im sure my electrics are right now, as this is what ive done. ONe fuel line seems to be blocked though??

Everything should already be there as part of the loom if it's not been chopped out.

Personaly... I will build a loom as I don't see the need to reuse the ford box and wires.

TT

Bolt the big fa...............Oh Bo***x :rolleyes:
Way too late..:D

did the smoke escape out the wires david? :D

Defo had an AshG day....
Everything I touch turns to poo
Decided to do a bit of wiring.
Then found me bloody soldering iron has packed up.
So gave up on the day, and came in early for a little drinky poos.

Got to go to town tomorrow to buy a new Iron.
And top up on a few bottles of wine......:rolleyes: