Daft Questions from a Newbie.
 

Hi Folks, Just found this forum so thought I would join in the merriment.
I built a Robin Hood Project 2B a few years back and have owned Ron Champion's book since the first edition came out. I have now got to a stage in my life where I feel the need to risk life and limb by building another car. I can weld and fix stuff, I am an electronic engineer by trade, the last build went well so I feel stupidly confident.
Now then, what I need to decide is what donor car to go for. I would prefer a Zetec motor but understand that if I go that route the injection and ignition needs money thrown at it. My 2b had a pinto but that needed loads spent to make it exciting, it was a heavy beast, I want something different this time.
I am thinking of going for a later DOHC sierra but know nothing about them, or maybe a CVH (?) variant.
I want to keep costs down so Mrs Enoch doesn't try to kill me. Again.
Anybody got any thoughts on what I should be looking for?
Thanks in advance,
Enoch.

Hi Enoch, firstly a warm welcome to the forum :)

my own build has a 1.8 cvh engine, as it came straight from the donor car & so easy for the paperwork side of things come IVA time, maybe not the most exciting engine but have been told is quite sprightly in a Roadster :D
may i suggest if you go for a full donor car then use the engine from that, you can always upgrade later & the mrs won,t feel the cost so much ;) ,
a Roadster that i see very often :D has a 2ltr zetec on bike carbs & megajolt & is one rapid car , approx 170bhp.

best regards & good luck with your build, you,ll find the forum is a friendly place with very helpful folk always on hand to offer help etc.

andy

Chuck it out and get the Haynes Roadster manual instead:D

The Haynes uses a Sierra as the main donor, rather than a (getting rarer) MK2 escort.

It has Independent Rear Suspension.

And do be expecting to build it for £250 either;) even if you go the Ron Champion route.

Thanks, Andy for the welcome and such a quick response. Common sense tells me to go the single donor route as far as I can but I have heard that the Zetec engine is much better. I have no experience of it but I do remember the Pinto being a bit weighty and designed in the late 17th century.:o
It made the 2b shift though, it had twin 45's and a fast race cam, very nippy.
Can anyone tell me which engines had which gearbox fitted? I have read here that the standard design needs tobe changed a lot if an MT75 is used but I am unsure as to which Sierras used the type 9.
Best,
Enoch

Thanks Sean, I prefer the IRS route, which is why I think the roadster is the one for me. I am very disappointed that 250 quid won't do it :p
I remember the spiralling costs on the 2b!! As long as Mrs thinks it's cheap I will get away with it:)
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

I think, basically, the early Sierras had the Type 9.

It all depends on power output as well. The Zetec is a lot more modern technology, and has higher power as standard, with the option of an easy tune for 170+ (Bike throttle bodies and decent ECU)

I have done my chassis including the mods for the MT75, and they are not difficult, in fact, they are just slight changes from the book spec. No idea if they work, because I haven't fitted my box yet, and I don't have an engine yet either.

Forgot to add, you can get a brand spanking new Zetec 2.0, with ECU, loom, injectors etc for £700 from Robin Hood.

Like the photos, Sean, looks like you know what you are doing. What is the lathe work required for? Looks like there is a fair bit more than I expected. Good job I've got a lathe and milling machine :) How long ago did you start your build?

As Sean has said in above post, go out & buy the "Roadster" book, officially titled " Build your own sports car, on a budget"
As Sean says too, the Roadster is a fully independant suspension chassis design,
I believe the cvh & pinto engined sierra,s have the type 9 gearbox whereas the dohc tended to have the MT75 box, yes if using the MT75 box then the chassis build is slightly different in the transmission tunnel area, not a prob as quite a few builders are using that box so help is at hand.

On a personal note ;) i,m using the cvh engine then once been on the road for a summer after IVA test will install a 2ltr zetec with bike carbs etc, a brand new engine can be bought for approx £700 & makes the car very quick indeed.
If you put your location in your profile there might be someone local to you who can show you their build/car.

cheers
andy
ps... as for cost of build.... mine will be on the road within a £3k budget:cool:

I only roughly know what I am doing.
I did a lot of work on bikes for years (old man had a hire fleet and breakers) but I was only about 10 or 11:D

Everything else is self taught, welding, lathe work etc.

What is the lathework, let me see

• Suspension bush tubes (couldn't find the right wall thickness, so bored out some thicker stuff)
• Wishbone adjusters (ended up buying them, I couldn't turn the M18 tap, let alone the M20)
• Mushroom inserts for Sierra uprights (photos not uploaded yet)
• Boring out tubes for pedal pivots
• Nylon bushes for above
• Some (not me) have turned their suspension bushes from HDPE or Delrin

The little lathe in the pictures met an untimely end, I now have a Myford ML7 (much better, all gears and belts, no silly electronics)

With a lathe and a mill you will be able to fabricate a lot of stuff youself, although I don't really think I have had call for a mill until today (brake caliper brackets - not necessary in the book spec)
I have the attachments to use the myford for milling, so will give that a bash soon

If you have a flypress/brake press you are laughing, because otherwise the suspension brackets need to made by brute force (hammer) or bought in

I have absolutely no idea what mine has cost so far (I'm too scared to look) and I have no idea what it will eventually cost.

I have never set a budget, or a finish date, because I would only destroy both:D

I'll probably reckon it up when I finish, but I have been buying parts as I need them, rather than having a single donor, so will work out a bit more.

Thanks again folks, the book is on order, should get it soon. The new Zetec sounds like a serious bargain at that sort of money. Anybody know how much a kidney sells for these days:D Mrs has 2 and I'm fairly sure she only needs 1:D

if you use the new zetec engine for your build , you will need a "cat" for the emissions test at IVA time, thats why i,m using the donor engine to start with ;) :)

andy

Again, a very good point.

TBH, if I had a donor I would just use the lump from that, then change at a later date.

I think an engine needs to be pre '95 to get relaxed rules on emissions at IVA time.

Interesting point about the cat. Hmmm, me thinks I need to ponder things for a while. I am leaning towards getting a rotten donor and using as much as I can from it then maybe swap in something a bit more adventurous later. Maybe buid it to take an MT75 but use whatever I get for starters.
***Enoch runs off to find beer****
Thanks agian chaps.

2 very good points there.

If the chassis is built to 'MT75' dims, then the Type 9 apparently fits with bags of room.

And beer is ALWAYS a good idea, unless;

• you are driving
• you are browsing EBay:D

you forgot one ..........

on a promise , wouldn,t want the beer to affect ones "ahem":eek: :D

andy

Unless I have been seriously 'on it' I have the opposite problem.

It all gets going sweet as, but I don't 'end'.:eek:
Girlfriend bloody loves it;)

must be my age then :o :D

sorry Enoch, what "must " you think?????:D :o

andy

No comment (I'm 28)

Yeah, welcome to the madhouse:D

:eek: that means i,m old enough to be your father :eek:

young whipasnappa :p

andy

Round here you could almost be my grandfather;)

london sean

sorry mate just seen your post with the myford lathe. Im an electrician and had a call out the other week to rewire one it had a horrible old forward reverse switch had to completely replace the controls its all ok now but wondered if you had any problems with yours

cheers mark

Its not that easy! First off you'll need a custom manifold for around £150 from boggs. Then the throttle bodies (£120 for R1 throttle bodies on ebay) and an aftermarket ECU, say a Megasquirt for Edis4 for around £350 from extraefi. Even getting tuned on a rolling road you'll be happy with 160bhp. People throw around big bhp figures with bolt on mods, but its just not going to happen.

Nah, mine's sweet as, it's still on the original (1947!!!) Hoover motor.

Forward and reverse is set by a tumbler gear on mine

I never mentioned prices;) Almost anything is easy with the right money thrown at it.

Sounds pretty cheap to me, although the use of carbs would need to be looked at in terms of emissions. Megajolt is about £150-200 I believe (not too sure as I am going FI route, probably with an Emerald ECU @ around £650 for reasons to be revealed soon enough)

Also, GSXR is the preferred manifold, as they can be re-spaced to fit an ST170 manifold, complete with ST170 fuel rail, injectors etc.
I have heard that ZX12 throttle bodies match almost perfectly, although at 48mm they are a tad big.

Don't forget that when fitting one of these lumps to a kit car, the standard, restrictive exhaust system will hit the bin, as will the airbox.

By all accounts, (although I have not done it personally) a std. 2.0 Zetec (130bhp) will achieve 160-170bhp with throttle bodies when fitted to a kit car.
Obviously this would include a decent exhaust system, free flowing intake and user programmable ECU, a little bit of DIY porting, just to match the intake and exhaust manifolds. Nothing really beyond the realms of practicality for a kit car builder

A standard car has to meet certain emissions/fuel economy targets. A car that is only driven in a 'spirited' fashion, might not put fuel economy at the top of the list.

This is the route I am going, although I am starting with a slightly more powerful lump to start with, for a degree of future proofing (I have further mods planned).

and lastly before you try and fit the ford 8 valve twin cam (dohc)also known as the twinky speak to axle on here ..........
he has managed it but it has been a nightmare for him..
the Pinto or CVH must be the easiest route to go with the zetec the more expensive option
cheers les g

There was a big thread on LB about this

Gearbox, to lay the power down
Clutch, to get power to said box
Brakes, to stop said monster
Undercrackers, to contain excitement from all above
Life insurance - need I say more:D

Adrian raises a very good point indeed, :cool:

after seeing that photo of a prop thru the tranny tunnel, a very good point indeed.


cheers
andy

For the sake of safety and £100 i would definitely recommend a good prop. For mine Dunning and Fairbank in Leeds made me an excellent prop for £95 rated to 200bhp. Well worth it.....

AndyH

OK, I have read the input here and made a few decisions. To keep the price down I am going to go the single donor route but build the car so it will take an MT75. I am going to stay off the beer, can't risk erectile dysfunction at my age:eek: Who would have thought I could have got such a wide range of advice from any one forum:) Thanks Sean!!
I like the sound of the Zetec (especially if I could find an "s" variant) but I really need to do this on a budget if I am to get official aurthorisation form "the management" and keep my private parts intact.
Best to all,
Enoch

Welcome to the forum
 

Welcome to the forum Enoch :)

I see you have had plenty of sound advice already :cool:

The best option, budget wise, is to just use what comes from the donor.

Sierra 1.8 CVH or the rarer Pinto will do just fine. Saloon,Hatch or Estate, all suitable.

This will make sure that your nuts are preserved :eek:

Once she is hooked on the thrill...............Tap her up for a bigger one !!?? :D

OK, so I am now actively looking for a Sierra, not found one yet but time is on my side. I have authorisation from swmbo (she who must be obeyed) only proviso being I have to sell one of my steam locos to pay for it all. Haven't touched the bloody thing for years anyway:) The book is on order from Amazon, I have a mountain of welding rods, I have sourced about 40 metres of 25mm sq steel tube for just under an 'undred quid. Christ I must be going for it:eek:
Got to get me garage roof fixed before I do anything, it is not what you might call water tight.
Thanks to everyone for all the advise, having spent many hours on this forum it looks like there are some top blokes on here. It's so nice to see people exchanging ideas and giving time to their fellow builders.
Regards to all,
Enoch.

best wishes for your build,
don,t forget you,ll also need some 19mm box erw tube (most get 20mm box tube as its easier to get ), plus your CP plates :eek: :D its all in the book;)

where abouts are you located ? might be a forum member close by.

all the best
andy

Hello mate,

You are flying along I am quite jealous,:(

The plan is to meet at the 3GE stand at 1pm. I am not wearing yellow but will be sporting an autumnal sun tan!! (Read the post Warning water is dangerous!!! By AshG):D

See you all tomorrow

p.s. I bet you are up north, miles from me.

OK right reply to the wrong question sorry

Hi Andy, yes I know I need 19mm, I thought I would get that a bit later. What are the CP plates? Not familiar with that - have seen them mentioned in several posts but don't know what they are. As for location I am in Bracknell Berkshire.

Chassis Plates (CP);)

Dooooohhhhh, it's so bleedin' obviuos now you say it.
I think I need a lie down....
Thanks matey!