New components for the Roadster
 

Hello to everybody.
I have developed two new performance components for the Haynes Roadster and any Locost 7 car in general. The first one is a double MC pedalbox and the second one is a gearchange mechanism for BECs.
I open this thread to present these products to you and see if there is any real interest.

PEDALBOX
Double MC with balance bar design. The design is very different to the book's one and is quite more advanced with both accelerator and clutch cables featuring a bellcrank mechanism (rotating on ball bearings) giving you quite a few options to alter the pedal's response and stroke.
The pedalbox is provided fully powdercoated and any parts left unpainted are made of AISI 304 stainless steel.
Both accelerator and clutch pedals have double stops to set their start and stop positions according to your requirements.
Any pedalbox will be made according to anyone's requirements. Anyway, Haynes chassis is unique, so the design will be the same for all of you, but for those owning different chassis, there is the possibility to have the pedalbox suited to their chassis.
The pedalbox will be TIG/MIG welded, comes powdercoated and includes everything needed except for the balance bar and MCs.



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BEC GEARCHANGE MECHANISM
The latest design is a high quality gearchange mechanism for BECs. The gear knob will be aluminum CNC machined. The gear lever will rotate on two needle bearings which will give perfectly smooth operation. All brackets will be laser cut and TIG welded. It will also come powdercoated.



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Look very nice, dare I ask the price?:(

Hi and thanks.
Price for the pedalbox (all included expept for the balance bar and MCs) will be 299 GBP but a special offer may be possible for the forum members if we organise a group buy.
As for the gearchange mechanism, i cannot tell you a final price yet, the project is fresh and i will have to calculate the final cost. I will do it the next few days and i will let you know.

Thanks but 299 is a bit out of my league (as expected) , thanks for the quick response though:cool:

I wish i could offer it for less (single item price) but the cost of the parts are very high. All steel plates are laser cut, and the pedalbox features 4 ball bearings, 4 rod ends, 2 custom made springs, TIG welded and powdercoated. Honestly my profit is very modest.
Anyway, i prefer to offer quality items at an ostensibly high price. I think this is more honest to the customer.

Maybe Caterham owners might be OK with those pricing levels, but I can't see anybody else doing anything other than laughing, TBH. OBP sell a pedal box complete with master cylinders, reservoirs and balance bar for £303.

I think you need to start doing some market research and some cost engineering.

You're right, it's a lot of money comparing to the OBP solution.
But honestly, they are 2 totally different products. I know that OBP makes some very good products but i asm not targeting them. I want to get into the AP Racing - Tilton league. And if you want to be totally honest my pedalbox is more comparable to those. And take a loot at their prices.

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motorsport/Braking/Pedal_Box_Assemblies_&_Balance_Bars/Tilton_Universal_Floor_Mount_3_Pedal_Lightweight_A ssembly/1723/0/40917

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motors...mbly/1723/6298

Not really the best forum for you then, what you need is-


http://www.wevegotlotsofmoneyanddont...it.co.uk/forum

I don't see why you are so aggressive with me.
Anyway, i would like to get comments on the design of the pedalbox. If people like the design of the product i could make a pretty good offer/discount.
But i will not drop the quality level of the product.
There is simply no product with a double bellcrank system working of 4 quality Japanese ball bearings and rod ends, with throttle and clutch spring loaded pedals, with travel stop for both pedals at this price tag.
And there is no manufacturer willing to work with you to make the product to fill your personal requirements.
If this seems expensive to you then you are free to buy a OBP pedalbox. But if you buy an AP Racing or Tilton you will certainly not throw your money away. There is some reason why expensive products are expensive.

Thats a very nice looking piece of kit you have designed. Do you have any of these made up or do you only have the CAD rendering? Looking at what you have there in laser cut parts (which could be made cheaper with out the holes every where) against the prices I've been given for my lastest order of 3mm work, I'd say theres £50 of laser cut components, £20 male and female rose joints, £36 ball race bearings, £20 springs , 2 hours of assembly welding @ £30per hour and £30-40 powder coat. Add your profit to each unit and £300 a go is not a bad price. Not sure you will have many takers for those that are trying to built their cars for less than £2000 but then you can't sell every thing to every body! There are builders that will spend £500-600 on a new set of wheels and tyres but not £360 on coilovers and springs.
The other way to look at your design, although it does look good is that it is perhaps more complicated that it needs to be?
The very best of luck with your products but please bare in mind that you are trying to sell to people that are either 'building a sports car on a budget' or the other place I'm guessing we'll find you is on 'locost builders' who are trying to build cars for nearly FREE.

Hi there
your pedal box looks quite superb
in fact a lovely piece of engineering
unfortunately its priced above my budget and probably
a bit over specc... for my build
i wish you luck with your project and hope you find a market for it
it would more likely appeal to the high end kitcar builders
gt40./lola 70./cobras./caterham etc
perhaps get your product along to a show and visit some of the stands
cheers les g

Hardly aggressive, taking the pee, maybe, but not agressive at all

If you want comments on the design, you will have to do better than a couple of CAD renderings, one of each product, how are we supposed to see the design from those. Any pictures of the real thing or is this just an idea you've had?


As my learned friends have pointed out, stuff like your is well out of context on this forum, where people are not choosing to spend big bucks on components such as you are offering.

There are other, more suitable forums where people are choosing to make bigger budgets available but then I expect you will find they are being supplied with all the necessary bits by their kit manufacturers.

You've obviously got some good CAD skills, and should you choose to use those to create designs which are more appropriate I shall look forward to seeing them.

Hi and thanks for your comments.
Yes, i have made a pedalbox for a friend's Locost but that was the first design, the one you see in the renderings is the updated and improved design. I am building one at the moment for a Locost owner in the USA, so i will attach some pictures when i have it ready.
For your cost estimations you are not far away, add to that the lathe work it needs.
I know the cost is high for a Locost low budget car, but again a quality item is expensive for a reason. Yes, it may be a bit complicated but can you make a bellcrank without using ball bearings? Can you make it without using rose joints? Can you make a nice job if you dont use a lathe at all, just by using pipe cutoffs for the bush tubes?
I might develop a simpler version if this design is not selling but i am not the man who will drop the quality level in order to sell cheap things. Thanks again!

Here's is the first version of the pedalbox in my friend's car.



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I appreciate all of your comments, although a bit aggressive. :p
I will take into account your suggestions. Thanks a lot!

Welcome to the forum :)

Like other members have said, your products look very nice , without doubt, a precision bit of engineering,

BUT

On a personal level the cost would be very prohibitive, with the general ethos of why most builders are building this car ( Roadster ), the "Book" gives a detailed drawing of how to make ones own pedal box that is functional & relatively inexpensive to make, or there are others suppliers that supply the completed item, but with all due respect, almost a third of the price of your part, without compromising quality & function of use etc.

In all honesty, the price of your pedal box would be 10% of my total "on the road" build cost, which I couldn,t justify on my build.

I wish you well with your venture but think you are targeting the wrong market with these products, after all , the book we all build from is titled "Build your own sports car on a budget" admittedly it doesn,t state a budget level but £299 for a pedal box is even more than the title of the original book by Ron Champion "Build a sports car for £250", ( I know that its nigh on impossible to achieve ) but hope you see the relevance of the quote.:)

cheers
andy

It is expensive but i would be interested depending on how much a group buy would be?
And as for the ron champion book, who can build a sports car for £250?, what a load of shit.
I choose to build the haynes cause my mate started it first, not because it was the cheapest but because you can do it all yourself instead of having to buy the chassis.

I met some one a few days ago that has been given his chassis material, got his build table materials free from the yard next door, the jammy bugger even got a sierra donor FREE from his local council as it was abandoned.

Im new to this forum,infact im new to forums in general.
Ive been reading this thread and I cant believe the attiude to this bloke and his product.
Its the sort of attitude thats let our engineering industry in the narrow minded mess its in at the moment
My advice to you is ignore the troglodyte`s

I agree with people who say such an offer is out of place here. Two factors are attracting people to this forum: budget constraints and love of doing it yourself. Someone who would be willing to spend 300 quid on a pedal box would either be building a Westie or a Caterham, or would be designing his own.

Watch out for those grocer's apostrophes! :D

I'd pay $299 :D

Welcome to the foum
 

Hi, welcome to the forum :)

I am a little surprised that your products have had a a somewhat hostile reception from some quarters :confused:

Pesonally, I think that most knowledgable folk would understand that quality engineering cost's a good deal more than a similar product that has been made to a price, basic in construction but functional.

For my own build, the product exceeds my needs, that said, if I were building an out n out track car, I wouldn't flinch at the price.

One thing for sure, I would much prefer to see someone coming on to the scene with a good quality product that is priced accordingly than someone appear, offering a great product at an unrealisticly low price !!??

Just a suggestion, perhaps it would help if you put a location in your profile ;)

A nice bit of engeneering & wish you well

Hi again guys.
I fully understand the somewhat aggressive (i would not say hostile for sure) attitude of the blokes here who are trying to build a car with as low money as possible. I know that the philosophy of the Haynes Roadster project is quite distant to the philosophy of my products.
What's the philosophy of my products and what's my philosophy in general as engineer? Top quality products for a realistic and not overinflated price. I would be willing to pay something more for a better engineered product and maybe delay my build a bit due to this. But i will not pay mad amounts of money for a product that is again at the top in terms of quality but has a "big name" behind it. I want to pay for engineering not for marketing.
I was recently looking at a "big name" (i will not say which one) pedalbox that was really nicely engineered, with nice features and it was something like 1000Euros... This is insane, i understand that a big company have a lot of people to pay at the end of the month but please don't ask me to pay them. I will pay for the product not for your bills.

Anyway, i don't demand people from this forum to buy my products. My main aim is more to build a reputation and get people speaking about my products, not to make super dooper sales and discounts.

Thanks all the guys for the good comments.

Top quality idea and engineering just a little to expensive for the cost concious amongst us,just ignore the acidic comments and dont be afraid to let us all know what you are designing and intend to make.

You do not have to apolagise for quality.

Good luck and best wishes.

Many thanks again!
I am also open to hear suggestions on new products you may need.
I will try to do my best in terms of offered price.

Rather overstating the case there just a tiny little bit I think. I've had another look through and can't see any hostility, although it could be that what you and I mean by that word are different. I can't see any aggression either. Piss taking, in my case, I will hold my hand up to.

Anyway, that said the issue here is not one of quality. The OP seems to think that the price is justified by the quality and I daresay he is right, and Talon's post confirms this well enough for me. But this issue isn't quality, but appropriateness. Has the OP got the right product at the right price?

I don't think he has, and it would seem I am in the majority (makes a nice change for me).

I think what has happened is that the OP has designed a product, based on his experience with his friend's car, and only then has he considered the issue of price. That really is an arse-backwards way of doing it. A much better appoach is that taken by the other traders here, and that is to work out what product is needed, and what kind of price would be paid, and then design a product to fit those parameters.

That is the really clever, or at least sensible, thing to do.

I would suggest the OP, and anyone else who fancies becoming a manufacturer, thinks about what products are difficult for an amateur, as a one-off, to make, then think about what price that amateur might be prepared to pay, to do some sums as to what the raw materials and parts might cost and THEN go to the drawing board, or computer, and do the design.

As to the piss taking, and the 'good' comments, anyone who puts their products out into the world and offers them for sale had better get ready for all kinds of responses, and take more notice, up to a point, of the negative ones than the positives.

Strictly speaking, you are absolutely right.
And i am referring to QFD, the initials of "Quality Function Deployment". That was a new product development technique, and started at Mitsubishi's facturi at Kobe (Japan) in 1972.
What is QFD? In a few words, it's a plan, which takes into consideration the customer need and drives the product development in a way to fulfill these requirements in order to produce a cheap and adequate product, a succesful product. Nothing is made or planned which does not relates to customer needs covering.
If we take a look at today's "market rules" we will see that that product development does not follow the QFD route very precisely. We see that we have passed from the era of "needs covering" to the era of "needs creation". Mobile phones are a good example. Thousands of operations, games, software, high quality cameras embedded and a lot more. If we turn 10 years back, noone would need a camera in his mobile phone. But the marketing people, just wanting to offer something new and radical, added a lot of features to the mobile phones. And people has replied positively. And they paid the mobiles phones which were expensive. I think most people (including myself) are using their mobile phones up to 30% of their total features.

I dont mean that i am creating new needs to Roadster builders. What i want to point out is that a designer should not only think what the customer need to have, they also have to think ahead of this and offer something more, something new. This is the game of evolution. If automobile manifacturers were thinking like that, we would still be driving cars without air-conditioning or without ABS. And remember, you only need ABS as soon as you try it.

Thanks :) .

I won't respond to the rest of your post if you don't mind, as I can't see that it has any relevance to the original topic. If you were discussing a new product then I would agree, but yours is just a nicer quality and more complex version of a product that is already available from a number of sources. It really isn't going to do anything other than what the existing products are doing. There is more adjustment built in, so it would be easier to set up, but that is really only a one time problem.

Now if you were to come up with something that was actually new then I for one would be very interested

This is not a one-time problem.
You need different throttle response to the track and different to the road. Also at a low-speed, low-grip track you normally need a less responsive throttle, the same goes for the use on the road.
Maybe i am right, you as a potential customer, have not even thought of the positive aspects my new product provides, unless you try it.
Maybe i have created new needs for you and you will be willing to pay the extra cost for something you think you don't need.. :)

Whatever. Think I'm out on this one.

I don,t often "speak out of turn"

but...

Having read this thread & another thread which the OP has posted on........the "penny" has just dropped.

I,ll say no more, other than to say "I,ll watch this space with interest";)

cheers
andy

Which other post do you mean?

Location,location,location ?:rolleyes:

Am I missing something andy?:confused:

In Greek mythology, E#####A was half woman half snake, known as the "Mother of
All Monsters" because most of the monsters in Greek myth were mothered by her
...
Handyandy
am i right or wrong ????????????
same sort of product but different style this time
lol :D
cheers les g
it was bugging me a bit but wouldn,t come out the grey matter

This is harder to understand than some of the really technical conversations !!!!

Don't affect or bother me anymore so I will say it.....sounds like the same geeza who was trying to make carbon fibre stuff but it turned out to be expensive crap......:D

I have been doing some design work while getting over my operation and I have come up with summat that every car freak has missed in the last 100 years.


It's called.......?




The wheel.........!!!!!!

:D :D Oh dear pain killers and alcohol don't mix do they Bean!!!!!!!!!!!

ill have two please fabby :D

On a lighter note this thread has provided an interesting read!
We shoudln't assume we all know the budgets and ethos behind everyones builds, some people may want to create something from scratch just for the satisfaction of doing it (hence a roadster over a westie), and to make it more special put some bling components on like willwoods and a nice pedal box. So there will be a market.

Saying that it will be a small market as most builders are probably tight fisted cheap skates like me, so I'll be going for the cheap option.

However if fabbys right its irrelevant anyway.

Basically there is/was a guy from Greece on Locostbuilders called Echidna who was offering carbon fibre wings etc for 7s. I seem to remember he was interested in pedal boxes or pedals too.

Anyway there were rumours that maybe the parts people ordered weren't quite what they were hoping for, or maybe they didn't get them, I really don't remember the details and I may be wronging the guy, readers will need to do their own research.

So naturally people are wondering if there is any link between him and the OP in this thread.