Steering column
 

On the sierra column there is a triangular shaft which is a sliding fit within the round main shaft. How far should the triangular shaft be slid inside the round shaft?

Cheers
Ken

I left mine where it was and cut off the excess an inch after the locating pin since I was re using the original upper uj

I put mine halfway down. I assume your taking about the section with the 'foot' on it, to stop it sliding out of the joint? The IVA man spent quite a lot of time scrutinising the steering column / wheel / rack etc. I can't find a recent photo of wht I mean. I'll try to take one tonight when I'm in the garage.

All that stuff is built into the steering system to stop the steering wheel being buried into you chest in an impact. i would keep as much of the slider in reserve for that purpose and keep that gizmo ford puts between the rack and bottom of the shaft. It all helps when you need it most. Just thoughts

bob

The section we're talking about is the adjuster, its meant to be adjusted. The collapsable section of the steering column isn't on the lower steering shaft, its part of the upper section (thats normally covered by the steering shroud). The part we're talking about is below. The adjustable section with the small foot on it.

Incidently I cut this section past the adjuster and extended it there. Between the rubber dampened coupling and the sliding adjuster.

Sorry I think I have been misleading here the part I mean is at the right of the attached picture. It telescopes inside the upper column but I dont know by how much?

Ken

As long as you have enough room for that triangular bit to go back into the column the set amount for the iva <i think its about 3 or for inches> you can cut the rest of if you need to. Here is a bit on the other section, hope this helps. The iva rules dont like the shafts to go too much in a straight line. http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/index....eering-column/

Bob

I had 2 types of thease one thin and solid made from rod with friction welded ends and one fat cast/forged on my doner (93) as in picture above.
So Thay are not all the same

Hi,
I'm going on with this thread as I have the same problem as KenK. I understand his question, but sorry, I don't really understand the answers :o .
So first, Ken, do you know now how much the triangular shaft should be inside/outside the round main shaft?
Here are some pictures of my (our) problem : fist line is the triangular shaft completely out, and second line is the triangular shaft completely in. What is the correct position please ?

Attachment 1463

Thank you very much.

I also have another question: how do I refill the steering rack with grease. I've got 2 new bellows, the grease (which is quite liquid, and looks more like very thick oil). I guess the easier is to refill from one of the two ends, but do I start with compresses bellow? extended bellow? middle position? How much grease do I put in it?
If you have any tips or procedure about that, I would be very glad.
Thank you very much.

hi Syl...when I did mine I just cut the excess that I did not need but still maintained the locating pin position on the upper joint...I think I would go for 50/50 but also bear in mind the clearance issue where the extension passes "U2"
if you use at the max limit (triangle bit) then it will put the extension very slightly closer....I used 19mm tube ....I think anything thicker may conflict with U2

Thank you Kev', yes, I think I will do it 50/50.

But I'm thinking about skipping the extension:
When I bought my steering rack, the guy also sent me the lower part of the Escort steering column. Here is how it looks.
Attachment 1472

So I thought about using it, and just join the 2 steering columns with a short splined shaft. But keeping the Escort column as it is will make it too long.
Attachment 1473

So I removed the joint from the Escort column, and I'm thinking about joining the 2 joints with a 250mm splined shaft.
Attachment 1474
Attachment 1475

I was a bit scared about welding an extension on the Sierra steering column, and I know that SFRO (Swedish equivalent to your IVA) is very regarding about that and the process. But using a splined shaft to join the 2 pieces will save me the risky welding part. It also solve the clearance problem between the extension and U1 (yes Kev', my column is on the left side ;) )

What do you guys think about that? Is there any problem having 2 joints on the same column? Do Sierra and the Escort joints/shafts have the same diameter and number of splines (9/16'' x 36 splines)?

I found the perfect shaft here:
http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/S...aft_SPLINED250
It is not cheap, so if anyone has another source for that, I'm interested.

Thanks in advance for your opinions and comments

This one is a bit longer and also has the groove machined into it each end also a little bit cheaper :D

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product...nc176fcvjfg8n2

Thank you Ozzy. The link you pasted is not working as, I guess, you were logged-in RD website when you copied it, so when I click on it, it asks for a login/password.
But I guess you saw the 400mm long one. I also saw this shaft, it is cheap, and I would have preferred ordering this one to RD, but it is definitely too long. I really need something between 250mm and 285mm.
If you have other tips...
Thank you very much.

Hi,
Regarding my steering column extension, I would like to come back on what I plan to do: as I have the lower UJ from the Escort rack, ans the upper UJ from the Sierra column, I would like to put a splined shaft between the 2 UJ's (see previous posts on this thread). This will avoid the delicate welding of the steering column extension

My question is : as there will be two UJ's, so 2 articulations on the column, do I have to link the shaft between the two UJ's to the chassis on a fixed point (with a bearing), or will it work without doing this?
Thank you.

Hi Sylvain

I am not sure if I have understood your post fully. :o

Most builds will use 2 universal joints to form the steering shaft. ( Unless using the original Ford rubber damper at the steering rack )

Here is a photo of AshG's steering shaft components before he welded the extension bar in place.



Such a set up should not need any additional support for the shaft.

One UJ is being held fixed rigid by the bulkhead bush & the other UJ is being held rigid by the steering rack.

This type of set up should allow for an angle but is not likely to be floppy.

If you were to make your shaft as you have pictured a couple of posts back, you would almost certainly need to provide an additional supporting point for the shaft.

Hope this makes some sense. :)

Ps

Sorry to AshG for stealing his picture. :)

Thank you for your reply Bonzo,
I think you perfectly understood my question in spite of my approximative English :o
The lower "rubber damper joint" of the Sierra steering column is rigid (the part I hold with my hand on the picture). It is not a UJ.

http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/attac...achmentid=1474

So actually, if I decide to link the Escort UJ (on the st. rack) to this "rubber damper joint", there will be, as on AshG's car, only 2 UJ's : one UJ held fixed rigid on the st. rack (Escort one), and one UJ held fixed rigid on the st. column, just after the bulkhead bush (Sierra one). So according to the example you gave me, my conclusion is (as the "rubber damper joint" is rigid) I don't need an extra support on the chassis. Am I right :confused: ?
Thanks.

Hi Sylvain

Nothing wrong with you english at all, it's very good. :)

The rubber damper is a kind of Universal joint & was used buy Ford as an alternative to the traditional type of Universal joint.

looking at your picture ( 3rd one )

If you were to connect that rubber damper directly to the rack & leave the UJ at the bulkhead then connect the Two by means of a solid shaft, that should be all that's needed to give you a workable steering shaft.

On the other hand, if you were to add an extra flexible component mid shaft, it would then need some additional support.

Rally design do a universal joint to replace the original Sierra Rubber one. ( As shown in AshG's picture )

I would take a picture of my set up but unfortunately it is under covers at the moment. :o :o

Hope that helps. :)

Ronnie is correct Sylvain the stiff rubber part is a uj so you would end up with 3 uj's which would not be good without additional support .....best way is to loose the rubber uj and have a shaft between the two mechanical uj's as in AshG's photo fill the gap it were with a shaft.

Ok Bonzo and Kev', I totally understand you point now. So if I want to go the route of double UJ + splined shaft, I have to source an about 700mm long splined shaft, and the longest I found so far are 400mm (RD or CBS):mad:

So I might have to extend the Sierra column myself anyway...

Thanks or the replies and help.

If anybody has an idea where I can find a long splined shaft, it would be great.

Thank you.

What's the big deal, Sylvain? Are you not confident enough of your welding, or do you expect expert inspection problems? Safety in case of head on collision?

If it's the first case, I think any reasonable weld will hold fine. You can do a test, weld a tube to a rod and try to break the weld by torque (with a large lever). I'm pretty sure the breaking torque will be way beyond what an average man could exert on a steering wheel.

A neat idea for reducing the riskyness of the extension weld is to cut the extension tube at an angle. This way the seam will be elliptical, longer and stronger than a square cut circular weld.

If it's about collision safety, the ~70 cm solid extended part of the column will be about ~120 cm away from your torso, with the two Sierra collapsible mechanisms on the upper part of the column. I haven't seen many sevenesque chassis damage photos, but the ones I've seen had the engine cage largely intact, even if the wheels have been torn off.
(Here are some: http://www.locost-racing.com/lydden15-09-01.htm)

Also, argument by authority: extending the steering column by welding in an extension was suggested in a publication by a reputable tech publishing house (Haynes), no doubt reviewed by competent engineers.

I am not so sure this set up would comply with iva section 14 page 2. protective steering. There should be a minium of 10 degrees of shaft offset and max of 30 degrees from straight viewed from the top or sides as part of the impact protection. It may be the picture but that looks like its pretty much a direct straight line to the rack. Just thoughts .

Bob

Sylvain ....it is not that you have to find a splined shaft you are taking two bits of splined shaft and welding those into each end of a piece of steel tubing the two splined bits being slid into the tube a short way say....50mm and then welded up....it is by far the most simple solution to achieving a reliable steering mechanism.

Hi Bob

Guess that was quite a poor photo, just a trick of the eye I am affraid.

Here's a couple of better shots of mine.





A rough measure with my angle gauge gives about 10 degrees of deflection.

The shaft looks closer to U2 than it actualy is ( only 4 or 5mm clearance though )
Going to sort that shaft out whe I re visit that particular job.

Poor old girl is starting to suffer living outside under tarps :(
Will strip her down & put it all away when I get the chance to make some storage space.

I would imagine that the steering shaft more than meets the IVA requirements.

Far as I know, to date all Roadsters have gone through SVA/IVA using the same set up. :)

Good enough for me Ronnie:) Watch the tarp thing, I went to dig out my discovery van project a few weeks ago to find three seperate birds nests full of chicks in there:eek: That pissed on my fireworks as I could not bring myself to disturb them:( I think they have gone for seconds cos they are still in and out.

Bob

The top rails are angled exactly 10°. So if the steering shaft is parallel to the top rail in the top-down projection, we're golden. Which seems to be the case, more or less.

Albert, in Sweden, SFRO (our IVA) wants you to prove that your welder is able to "brake" the steering column thickness (about 15mm) at max power with the arc, I guess to make sure you can get enough penetration into the column steel. They say if you can't achieve that, don't weld the steering column extension with this welder. Then they want you to drill 4 crossed holes at each end of the extension, and weld inside the holes as well as around the edge (this is not a big deal). So you can see that the steering column extension issue is very sensitive for SFRO, and I don't want to take any risk.
Now, we all have different skills, and most of you know that I'm new at welding, but I think I really improved along the way (I started my build a bit more than a year ago) and my welds on the chassis are descent now... but for 2 and 3mm wall thickness. What about welding a thick-wall tube on a plain 15mm shaft with my 145A, I don't know? That is the reason why I wanted to avoid, if I could, this welding part.
But is looks like I have no choice, and will make some tries and tests next week. The other problem is that I have very hard time to source this thick-wall 15mm inside diameter tube: I have to buy 6m anywhere I go, and it is a quite expensive (and a waste of more than 5m!). As I have ordered my wishbone to Talonmotorsports, I have no leftover of 19mm upper wishbone round tube.
So I will keep on thinking about that. I keep you posted.
Thanks to all of you for the replies and advises:)
Regards.

Sylvain, I bought 25x4 seamless for for my lower wishbones, but then reconsidered and found lighter thickness tube. So I have a couple of metres of 25x4 left over, I can share if you find no better options.

Albert, yes I would be very interested in 1m of your tube, thank you :).
But there is one thing bothering me: 25x4 means that the inside diameter is 17mm, and the steering column shaft is 9/16'' (14.28mm). So isn't it a bit too large to make the extension? I was thinking about a 15mm inside diameter.

Sylvain......25mm od is going to put you very very close to the suspension upright unless you have a longish splined end to pass before it....just thought I would mention it.

Yep, the tube is a tad too big, I used some wedges to center the shaft when tacking it in. 25 mm is pretty close to the upright, in the range of 3 mm, but there's no contact. It's about €8 for the tube and postage if under 2 kg, which limits the length to about 90-95 cm or so.

There's something a bit absurd about mailing a piece of steel pipe, don't you think? :)

Actually yes, especially if it is not the exact correct diameter;) . Thank you very much Albert, but I will find a local solution for that:)
Bye.