Gaps between GRP panels and chassis rails
 

Hi,
I trimmed my bodywork panels as much as I could and now, everything (temporarily) fits together. However, I have big gaps at a lot of different places


2014-06-26_18-48-05 par Voucht71, sur Flickr

(other pictures pictures).

With the side panel top edge being to high (8mm gap between this edge and the top side of the top rails), my nose cone needs to be raised of more than 10mm! So here again, I need something to fill the gap.


2014-06-26_18-55-43 par Voucht71, sur Flickr

Of course, these gaps are not regular: when I have 8mm at the front, going backwards, it is going down slowly to finally touch the top rail nicely at the scuttle level.

I planned to attach my side panels to the chassis with rivnuts in the top and lower rail (I want my side panels to be removable) and bolts on the top edges (countersunk where there will be the bonnet on top) and bottom edge of the side panel. But with these gaps on the top edges, (bonnet and cockpit level), I feel like I won't be able to correctly tighten the bolts without braking the GRP. Am I right? So I think I need to pack these gaps any way possible.

I bought rubber bands and trims in different thickness’s, but I'm not sure it is the ideal things to fill these gaps. And I'm wondering if rubber is really a good idea as it will be kind of soft anyway, and I'm afraid the GRP panel moves too much and end up cracking, or even worse: braking.

So, what would you do if you were me? Any advices or ideas?

Thank you very much in advance.

If you tighten the fixings over a couple of days the fibreglass will start to take the shape of the rails. Put a large washer (temporarily) under the bolt head to spread the load, & you should be fine. ;)

Thank you for the reply Jason, but I really don't see how the GRP can take the shape of the tube: the 90° corner of the top edge and the side panel will stop me to achieve that I think. Look at the first picture of my post : I think the surface to shape is way too narrow for that (25mm wide), and the gaps are too big.
But thanks for the tip :)

Have you got your floor on yet?

That would make the panels a little better fit

Otherwise I'm not sure what you can do, your chassis must be out as the side panels are usually a tight fit !

Sylvain - on the same theme as Bens comment - but a different approach - could you put the top of the panel flush (ish) and move the problem to the underside of the car? Just thinking it may be easier to make a less attractive solution down there..?

Sylvain, who manufactured the panels for you, can they give you any advice

Arfon

Yes, email Dave @ Equinox he'll give you advise. But they do come out of a mould and have fitted plenty other cars perfectly so I'm not sure whats happening with you chassis heights...

Think your chassis must be out somewhere, I've had to cut the returns off the side panels for a length in my engine bay as it was out a couple of mm. If I was you I'd either ditch the side panels and make them in ali or cut the returns off where needed and glue the side panel on with some carefully placed counterskinks that would be much better than having the nose etc raised up.

Hi,
Thank you for the replies.
First, yes, the floor is fitted, and it is a 3mm aluminium plate.
Yes, it is a very tight fit... but not everywhere. At U4/U5 level, it fits perfectly. Then, the gap is increasing slowly going frontward and backward, reaching 5mm at the front end of TR1/TR2, and at the base of SS1 curved plate at the rear. It is more than that at the junction between SS1and CP3CP4, as you can see on the picture.
So, no, I cant lower the panel more then that because it is a tight fit at U4/U5 level (if it could, it would do it naturally thanks to gravity I think :) ).

Ben, thank you very much for blaming the problem on my chassis, it is very nice of you. It looks like you are preventively defensive, when at any time I have blamed Equinox for the problem. We all know the energy you put in selling/promoting Equinox products, but don't over do it, especially if the result is this kind of preventive defence by criticising and questioning other people's work.
In my first post, I just exposed a problem I have: how to fill the gap between the GRP and the chassis rails. I never said the panels were not fitting because of the manufacturer, and never questioned Equinox products and quality. I didn't even mention the name! So why so defensive?
Now, as you want to talk about that, after I read your first post, I have remeasured my chassis at different places, just to be sure. Believe me, you don't want me to publish the results here, it will not serve your cause.
Yes, these side panels come from the same moulds as a lot of others which have fitted a lot of other cars, but perhaps the transport conditions were different, the storage conditions were different, moist, temperature, etc. There can be a lot different factors that make a GRP part different from another one from the same mould, and you know that. And these side panels might have fit a lot of cars, but everyone has problem with their side panels, where ever they come from, you can't deny that. Give me some examples where a GRP side panel was “plug and play” and no trimming/adjusting was needed. I'm not sure you will find a lot of them. So why blaming my chassis more than other possible cause? I'm sorry to sound rude Ben, but I find it offending considering what you know of me and my build.

But again, the point of this thread has never been to find the cause of the problem or to blame it on someone, but just to find a way to sort it out! And even if the problem came from my chassis, I'm at the final stage of my build and I would have to do with this chassis anyway. Where ever the problem comes from, my chassis or the side panels, I need to find a way to fit them, and that is my only concern. So if you want to help, constructively, you are of course welcome to do so.

I'm still open to other suggestions about how to sort this problem out.

Thank you.

Sylvain, what is the fit like on the underside of the rails? Could it be possible (I've just come in from work, so this might sound daft) that your issue lies with U4/5, or is it a tight fit to both the top and bottom rail?

Thanks for the input Snapper. Yes, it is a tight fit to both the top and bottom rail at U4/U5 level. It is this point which defines the vertical position of the GRP panel. Out of this point, the lower edge of the panel touches the bottom side of the chassis.
I made a sketch that illustrates my problem. Chassis is in black, GRP panel outline in red.


SidePanelGaps par Voucht71, sur Flickr

The only wrong thing on the sketch is the lower front part. On the sketch, it looks like the GRP lower edge does not touch the bottom rail after the floor stops. In reality, it does. It is quite loose, but it touches the bottom rail, certainly due to the "flexibility" of the GRP on such a length. I will try to slide a 3mm aluminium strip between BR1/BR2 and the lower edge of the GRP panel to see if it can pulls down the panel.

Again, identifying where my problem lies is not my first concern, because where ever it does, I'm not going to change the chassis, and I really want to use these GRP panels as I had them done with a personalized colour, I don't have the budget, material and facility to make aluminium panels and paint them. So I need to find a way to attach them to the chassis.

Thank you very much.

Hi Sylvain,

please don't think that I was belittling your build, i was only suggesting a form of communication with your vendor, I didn't even know it was equinox.

i must agree with you that Ben does seem to promote equinox passionately and i have often wondered if there was any form of business connection

As you know i follow your build regular as i like a lot of alterations that you have made to the better, i.e. peddle box and steering rack support

kindest regards

Arfon

Absolutely no problem Arfon, what I said in my post from yesterday was absolutely not destined to you.
Thanks for the advice and the kind words :)

Hi Sylvain.

I wasn't belittling your project I'm sure it'll look awesome when you have finished and will be the highest of standard.

The only reason I suggested the chassis could be out is the side panels come from a mould and they have fitted so well on mine. I would of made the same suggestion whether it was equinox or gilham or anyone else's bodywork.

You mention 10mm gap that you have to raise the nosecone? Suggesting the panel is 10mm out at the front! This is a little more than error in the thickness of the fibreglass. Hence the suggestion that there could be an issue with the chassis. I don't know who made the chassis as I haven't read you build reports. So no need to get defensive.

I haven't mentioned equinox in quite some time and this is the first in a while. Except for Robos the other day who had posted about how good the bodywork is.

As I suggested you have a chat with Dave about this as he would be my first port of call before posting pictures and asking for help.

Good luck with you car, sure it will all turn out fine in the end.

There are a lot of contradictions in this answer Ben. I will not answer point by point, I already spent to much time on that (and you can't imagine how uneasy it is for me to answer to this kind of things and making myself clear in English which is not my mother tongue).

Just one thing : the nose cone is lying on the side panel top edges, which are, at that place, 4mm thick. So the gap is actually only 6mm, not 10mm. Which can be a fibreglass problem, but again, I never said so. If my chassis was out of 10mm at the front, I'd rather plant carrots than building a car. The measurements between the lower face of BR1/BR2 and the top face of TR1/TR2 is exactly 355mm, so there is no problem with my chassis here.


2014-06-29_09-49-12 par Voucht71, sur Flickr


2014-06-29_09-49-27 par Voucht71, sur Flickr

I checked again the measurements at the rear, and it is the same, everything is Ok on the chassis side. I have pictures of these measurements too if you want.

Now that I'm proven innocent, I want to make another statement: I measured the vertical dimension of the inside of the side panel, from top edge to bottom edge. The measurements of Equinox's side panels are spot on too, nothing to say about that. So, why these gaps if my chassis is spot on, and so are the side panels? I think it is because of the shape the panel is taking when it is forced under the 3mm floor. The panel get a slight inwards curve, and I guess that's what gives these gaps.


2014-06-29_15-45-10 par Voucht71, sur Flickr

So no one is to be blamed, and everyone is making a wonderful job: me, Equinox, you, the Pope and and the Queen of Denmark. And as Voltaire said: "All's for the best in the best of all possible worlds" :)

... nevertheless, I still have gaps to fill!

Mike, I really seriously considered what you said : rising the nose cone, etc. doesn't look to be a good solution. I really tried to plan for every other possible solution, but didn't get anywhere. I really want the side panels to be removable, I know myself, I'll have to remove them in the future, even when the car is on the road. So gluing is out of the table. I could cut the rerun edges, and trim the top edge of the side panels flush with the top of the chassis, but it will oblige me to bolt them from the side, and I think it will look kind of ugly to have bolt on the side, even dome head ones, it will look like a WWII plane fuselage ;-)
So, unless someone sees another solution, I think that raising the nose cone of about 10mm is the only way to sort out my problem.

The lower edge of the nose, under the radiator, will be solid mounted on FF1


2014-06-29_18-02-42 par Voucht71, sur Flickr

The front ends of the side edges are lying on the top edges of the side panels. To fill the gap between TR1/TR2 and the nose cone side edges, I plan to use a 25x10mm rubber strip. With rivnuts in TR1/TR2, the bolts will cross this rubber strip.


2014-06-29_18-03-52 par Voucht71, sur Flickr


2014-06-29_15-31-51 par Voucht71, sur Flickr


2014-06-29_15-32-18 par Voucht71, sur Flickr

Will this be acceptable?

New post because more the 4 pictures

To fill the gap between the top edges of the side panels, and TR1/TR2, I plan to insert 25mm strips of GRP (leftovers from timing the side panels), so, unlike the rubber strip, this will be solid. As the gap increases from 0mm at the bulkhead level, to 6mm in the font, I can put one bolt just in front of the bulkhead, one in the middle with about 4-5mm on packing material, and one at the front, under back end of the nose cone, with 6mm of packing.


2014-06-29_16-05-34 par Voucht71, sur Flickr

This makes 1 bolt every 300mm. So I can run a 25mm GRP strip on the 40 first front cm, then on top of it, another strip on the 25-30 first front cm

Again, will this be acceptable?

Simulating all that with rubber strips, pieces of GRP and clamps, it give something, in my opinion, looking not too bad, and everything finally fits together. But the main question: will this be strong enough?


2014-06-29_15-32-45 par Voucht71, sur Flickr


2014-06-29_16-14-54 par Voucht71, sur Flickr

The lower return edges of the side panels are flush with the floor, and the front end begin very long and wide, it becomes flush with BR1/BR2 very close to the front end of the floor. I will have no problem to solidly attach these lower edges of the side panels to the chassis.


2014-06-29_17-59-44 par Voucht71, sur Flickr

I'd like to have your opinion about this before going further (drilling, etc.). So, again, every comment, idea, opinion about my plan is very welcome.

Thanks a lot.

You seem very defensive yourself when you really don't need to be and seemed to have taken a suggestion to hurt, even tho I wasn't the only one to mention it. I'm glad both the chassis and the bodywork are fine dimension size, I was just picking up on dimensions you mentioned.


I'm also glad you seem to be finding good solutions to your issue. Think that's all that needs to be said.

Good luck with the rest of your build and hope we see plenty more pictures!

build looking good sylvian glad you found solutions to the issues

you saying about not being able to make yourself clear as english as not your first language made me smile a bit cause you then went on to use all the comma's and full stops in all the right places putting all the english lot to shame lol

enjoying keeping up with your build

Dave

I think your solution will work fine. The bodywork actually looks really good, world's ahead of the stuff I bought off another supplier !

Looks excellent Slyvain,dont forget a little space on bonnet edges front and rear for edge trim if required in regulations,if my gaps are half as close I will be over the moon.;)

Sylvan, please don't make apologies for your English, there is nothing wrong with it. If I'm not mistaken you are of French origin and believe me, there are very few if any on here that could converse in your mother tongue.

Arfon

Jais parlez petit francais !:p

pardonnez mon orthographe

Thank you for the kind words guys :) I guess I should thank my mum who was an English teacher, and my other half, who in spite of not begin English either, speaks an excellent English with a perfect Queen's accent (quite rare for a swede)! My English might look good because I'm writing here, but the sound of it is different I'm afraid: I still have a big Inspecteur Clouzot accent!

So OK, I think will have a go of fitting the body work the way I planned this week-end. I'll keep you posted.

And Paul, you are ready to move to lesson 2 :D

I have a colleague at the university where i work, he heads up the performance car dept. his name is Olivier Durieux and man he is as mad as a box of frogs, he too has very good English, either that or I am getting good at understanding him.

Arfon

Merci mon ami,bon chance.:)

Sylvian, I've just trial fitted the first of my side panels today with a setup similar to yours (3mm alu floor) and found a gap much like the one in your picture above. Any tips on how you addressed that particular gap? At the top, where the panel meets the foot of the roll hoop my panel sits about 10mm above the metalwork...!

Hi,

Yes, this space looks weird at first, but finally, it is not such a big deal.

I haven't actually fill this gaps between CP11/SS1 and the panels, as with the seats in place, they are not visible, and nothing pushed on the edge there. But I filled the gaps between TR3/TR4 and the panel (with aluminium spacers), because that is where you push with your hands when you extract yourself from the car.

http://vouchtroadster.blogspot.fr/20...panels-09.html

To come back on the space between CP11/SS1 and the panel, I had same problem as you at the top, where the panel meets the foot of the roll hoop. Not very nice, especially because it is not levelled with the rear tube where they meet.

2014-10-04_15-38-54 by Sylvain ROIG, sur Flickr

My solution has been to level it and trim the edge in a nice curvy shape to meet the curve of the side panel:

2014-10-04_15-49-42 by Sylvain ROIG, sur Flickr

2014-10-04_15-49-35 by Sylvain ROIG, sur Flickr

to be followed on the next post (can't add more pictures on this one)

I completed the work by put nice slick trim on the edges. The curvy part of the side panel does not go up to the foot of the roll bar, but I'm not unhappy with the result.

The trim goes from the rear tube to the dashboard, and it is not that bad.

2014-10-04_16-58-33 by Sylvain ROIG, sur Flickr

2014-10-04_16-58-41 by Sylvain ROIG, sur Flickr

Hope that helps :)

Cheers- I really appreciate the pics - my first thought was to loose the return on that curve entirely so the line of the original metalwork is followed on the outside and somehow trimming the vertical edge so it has a nicer finish on it. Your solution - to effectively 'cut the top off' the curve - does make sense and looks fine I think!

I am fairly sure I have no other room for adjustment as the panel sits pretty tight on the rails down the whole side of the car - I may even need to sand out the returns on the inside slightly to try and introduce a bit more space to work...!