4x4 build gear decision.

[waynes world]

First this is not going to be a Haynes roadster build but i will be wanting to use the chassis to build on, it will be widend to give room for the T box. I am not after a light weight roadster, so this will not be for the Haynes purist in anyway, its a fun head scratching build i want to do, and fun at the end of it, ok if i get there lol.

I am getting the work shop ready for the long waited build, well the chassis area as its to small to build the car in there but the chassis will go in.

I have chatted in the past about this build and talked about using sierra 4x4 running gear along with a cossie V6 engine, what i am after now though as there are so many ways to go with this what other power plant would you recommend.
I would prefer a V engine as i just love the sound, i know the Colonge is heavy but cheap and good power for what you get, much the same a a rover V8, and in my budget as i am not loaded as this is a long term or wen eva its done project. i would be likley to get a non runner engine and box to build around then rebuild it when needed.

Jad IRS back end maybe?

so come on guys, i know theres lots of ideas and help out there, i want a list to go at then i can plan out from there.

cheers

wolly

[TalonMotorFabrication]

Ah some one with some thing interesting.... first off ditch the idea of using the Sierra 4x4 gearbox as it's massive for what you want it for, you will also need to find some where for the front diff to go. I looked in to this about 3 years ago you'd better off using an Impreza engine/box as the transfer box and front diff are in the gearbox it's self. The other advantage of using the Impreza is that the boxer engine is very low and you can tuck it right under the nose cone.

[waynes world]

OOoo, never thought of a impreza, any certain year to go for, i need to price up the parts aswell, also performance.

just seen there a flat four, never knew that.

[waynes world]

Had a look at the gear box, the out puts look far back, or is it just me?

[flyerncle]

Audi/vw are fairly short from front pulley to drive shaft on fwd system so usable and g/ box as normal for rear diff.

[Oscar]

Here, check out this guy.

http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk/

His is based on sierra running gear, he's done some funny rerouting of the front prop i believe to try and avoid losing too much foot room.

I can safely say from experience that the 4x4MT75 is BIG! And the front prop wants to go where your left leg is.

[K4KEV]

The imprezza engine is 32.5 inches wide at the front, I'm not even going to bother going to my car to check the haynes nose cone as I know it ain't that wide, I think your problem is always going to be getting the engine far enough forward to have the front wheel diff in line with any 7 style cars front wheels but hey think outside the box and you never know.

[waynes world]

Thanks flyerncl, i will have a look at those also.

I have seen his build before when on here asking about the ford running gear, yes they are big, i have fitted that before in a suzuki SJ, very tight aswell. Just good cheap units.

[Oscar]

If you do choose 4x4 MT75 for some strange reason, I've got a spare one that can go for cheap!

Got all the shafts and hubs etc too!

[waynes world]

The imprezza engine is 32.5 inches wide at the front, I'm not even going to bother going to my car to check the haynes nose cone as I know it ain't that wide, I think your problem is always going to be getting the engine far enough forward to have the front wheel diff in line with any 7 style cars front wheels but hey think outside the box and you never know.

Just been looking at he cars, i think it would go ok, and as said i will just be using the Haynes chassis as a base then modify it to suit, widen, lengthen etc, and the body will be made to suit the rolling frame/chassis, nose cone and body is the least problem, they can be made wider etc etc with a bit of fibreglass, but my idea si to go for a carbon fibre body, i just love the look of it, i just made a dash for my Melso with it:)

[twinturbo]

just seen there a flat four, never knew
that.

Have you never listend to one? Classic Boxer Engine sound.. Beetle on Sterroids.




As for your build


Decide what you want it to look like first.


Subaru - Very Wide Engine.
Audi - Very Tall install with front heavy weight distribution.
Sierrra - Old but reliable and correct north south install.


If you want to get an idea of the issues of a East/West install then look at corrals failed build.

http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=3607


Remember that the front diff ratio must match the rear ( if your putting say a Jag Rear end in ) otherwise the 4x4 System will complain.


BMW did a bunch of X series cars ( not the X5 X3 etc ) back in the 90's but they are very rare.

There are almost no other north south 4x4's

TT

[waynes world]

That has always been the reason TT for the sierra donor, seems the easiest way around things with the north south, if that can be said for this kind of build. The main problem i have understood in the sierra is the steering rack, will need about 4 UJ`s, and the T box taking up the drivers footwell, but that to me will not be a big problem as i will be widening the chassis to what is needed.

I like the Impreza idea as this gives good power and is lighter set up. I still need to look into this one a bit more as to how it needs to be done.

WW

[waynes world]

Here is another way to go about it, if there are parts out there to hand that is.

Any engine/gear box and use a unmarried T box with near side output to ford diffs, yes new props etc would need to be made up and a few other bits but you get the idea.

I just cant find a sepperate T box that is small light enough, although there is the Suzuki SJ T box, very small and light and separate and good in the SJ for 200hp so in a smaller lighter car with 200bhp it would cope fine. Yes the out put are on the off side but then it could be set in a better palce, within reason, it worked when i fitted a RV8 and Pug TD in the SJ a few years back.

outa the box thinking now

WW

[ayjay]

I am rebuilding a Moss Malvern ATM. Just now refurbing a Toledo 1500 TC engine for it. This is basically a Triumph Spitfire engine RWD setup. In the light of the now scarcity of Sierras these may be of interest to some who want a roadster "on a budget" Old pushrod technology I know but some of the Dolomite engines are pretty hot and later transverse engines are easily converted to RWD.
There are still quite a few about .;)

[Enoch]

Fitting the jag IRS is easy, even within the confines of the original build spec. I am building a "nothing like a roadster roadster" based on a Jag V12. The front is way wider than normal, the car is a lot longer but the rear is about the same width as the roadster. Details on line at www.deepfolly.co.uk
best of luck
Dave

[waynes world]

I forgot to say the plan now is

Impreza engine with G box to a Suzuki SJ Tbox to the Impreza diffs. the T box will give either 2wd or 4wd so if it works best of both worlds :)

[snapper]

I think the Suzuki transfer box will go POP when you let the torque from the impreza loose

[waynes world]

I think the Suzuki transfer box will go POP when you let the torque from the impreza loose

So what will it take before it goes pop.

[Dualist]

Not so sure on the gears but they reckon a box is good for 300.

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=60213&sid=564b2feabf45e793a99a21dca0ad37b8

[waynes world]

Not so sure on the gears but they reckon a box is good for 300.

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=60213&sid=564b2feabf45e793a99a21dca0ad37b8

Well thats even better, from my off roading days on difflock it was 200hp, i ran a SJ weighing 1150kg with a 1.9TD pug engine and it was faultless, yes not as much hp but running 31`s and dragging all that weight around they must be good, a lot even run 33`s and the T box copes well.

[waynes world]

I have found this place with a good, i think, ratio calc

http://www.solemnwarning.net/transmission/?

I am trying to work out what ratio i need and if the Suzuki SJ T box will be good ratio wise as i reckon its going to be fine for the power.

[waynes world]

I am serious to get this going this year as i have sorted a good dry work area out now, well asap as my wife has said i can turn the conservatory into a work shop:)

My idea is to use what ever engine and G box ( not decided yet, so then i have been looking into using a Suzuki SJ T box ( seperate ) these are good for 200+bhp and same torque in a 1 ton 4x4 fun car, just the casing lets them down but i can beef that up easy enough, they have no built in diff, i was told i need to get a T box on a road car that has a differetnial, why i dont know??
I see it that if the front and rear (LSD ) either sierra or Impreza diffs will do that job.

I will still have to work out how the set up will be as the outputs from the T box are on the off side so i am seeing if i can offset the engine/G box slightly to give space for the drive shafts.

So what you think on the T box and Diff use?

[baz-r]

i was told i need to get a T box on a road car that has a differetnial, why i dont know??
I see it that if the front and rear (LSD ) either sierra or Impreza diffs will do that job.

I will still have to work out how the set up will be as the outputs from the T box are on the off side so i am seeing if i can offset the engine/G box slightly to give space for the drive shafts.

So what you think on the T box and Diff use?

you need a central diff or you will get wind up from both fronts traveling a grater distence than the rears and it will soon go bang!

off road style 4x4 usualy have a thing called a free hub (over run clutch) that you lock out on the rough stuff

[Dualist]

as my wife has said i can turn the conservatory into a work shop:)

Hope you got that in writing bud ;)

[waynes world]

So thats put the end to the SJ T box, oh well, i am thinking what else i can build now anyway, or restore.

Oh and Dualist, i have been im touch with my solicitor and getting papers written up ;)