Customer loyalty V's cost

[Bonzo]

Now here's a dilema for you all.

My annual BOC cylinder rental is due at the end of this month, looking at the latest price list, next years rental ( Payable in advance ) is going to cost me £87.80 + vat .

I swang by my local steel stockist to raid the scrap bins n pick up some strip steel.
As they happen to be the nearest agent for Air products gas I enquired as to the costs.

Air Products annual cylinder rental is £86.87 + vat ( Again, payable in advance )

Customer collection charges per visit are. BOC £11.90 +vat / Air Products £16.75 +vat.

So far not a lot to choose between the two companys.

Now here's the shocker .... Gas prices !!??

For the MIG welder

BOC Argoshield light per cylinder, £41.84 + £1.09 E&E surcharge + vat

Air Products Coogar5 ( Argoshield equivalent ) per cylinder, £14.00 + 84p E&E surcharge + vat

For the TIG welder

BOC Argon per cylinder £71.51

Air Products Argon per cylinder £21.82

E&E / vat charges same as above.

Why are Air products gas prices, so much cheaper than BOC .... Am I missing some sort of trick !!, cylinders smaller or not filled so much ??
Perhaps I have been given an introductory price to get me hooked !!?? :confused:

I have been an account holder with BOC for over 35 year's .... took the account over from my late father who was a customer when I was just a twinkle in his eye.

Going to be difficult to decide if I should switch

BOC pros,
I have known the local branch manager for over 30 years, he provides a cracking service & is a fellow welder who know's what he is talking about.
Allways willing to cut a special deal on equipment if at all possible .... You can trust his advice 100% :cool:

BOC con's, expensive gas prices ??

.................................................. .....................................

Air products pros
Cheap gas prices ..... No knowledge of customer service but my local steel stockist is their nearest agent & I know that at times, their customer sevice leaves a lot to be desired !!??

Air Product's cons !!??

.................................................. ............................................

If I were a large volume gas user I guess the choice on the face of things, would be a no brainer.

As things stand, a full size bottle of Argoshield will last me about a year.

The biggest choice I have is pure Argon for the TIG welder !!?? If I am to continue renting a second cylinder, I am going to have to make it pay for it's keep .... Doing some alloy fabrication for other people perhaps.
Air Products pure Argon prices are so tempting !!


Well there you have it .... This is the sort of crap that floats about in my head, all the time :D :o

[Davey]

Hi Ronnie, I used to only have CO2 cylinders for my MIG welder and had accumulated a couple of brewers CO2 bottles that a local firm used to refill for me at a reasonable cost (last year it was about £17) and two full cylinders would typically last me a year. Then they went bust and I've not been able to find another company that will refill them ( none of the pubs round here are that friendly as to exchange an empty for a full at cost or even slightly above cost). So early this year I signed up for a BOC contract for a small CO2 cylinder (about 2'6" tall) for my MIG, then I bought a gas welding and cutting kit so I needed oxy and acteylene cylinders, back to BOC agent, then I bought the TIG welder so needed pure argon for that so back to the BOC agent. I have deliberately ignored the rental costs as it would upset me too much so I just let my Mrs who does the accounts (who better than a chef to cook your books?:D ) deal with it. She sometimes tells me what it costs but I turn a deaf ear, just like I do when she repeats some meaningless gossip she's heard:D :D .

D.

[Talonmotorsport]

I don't use either BOC or Air Products so can't comment on customer service, I use Air Liquide via a local agent. Cylinder rental on the big bottles for any gas is £9 a month, SM (argo sheild/corgon) refill is £47 a time +£5 paper work. Staff at agents is always very helpfull loading and unloading cylinders in to the car (yes I know it's not the done thing,transit flat bed coming soon).
As for refilling C02 pub bottles have you tryed your local fire extinguisher suppliers/service agents? I used to get mine refilled for a case of Fosters every christmas.

[Bonzo]

Nothing wrong with a flat bed Transit :cool:
A very usefull tool & I would imagine that you will be able to make very good use of one :)

Bottle rental is one thing that never caused me any concern prior to my abrupt forced retirement, rental was more or less a tool of my trade & priced accordingly as part of any quotation for work.

Since I have, really wound down the amount of automotive/agricultural work, I find the rental harder to swallow.

Yes, I could probably wangle a Co2 bottle from somewhere but for now, I will continue to treat my MIG welder as one of my " Lifes little luxurys " :)

Different matter with the pure Argon cylinder though, that is going to have to earn it's keep :D

[AshG]

ronnie stay away from airproducts. i signed up with them. got the first gas bottles at that really good price then they raped me on all the following ones. i think my first half size bottle of argon from them was about £18 the second one was near £60!!! the rental kept creeping up too as i had it on a monthly tariff.

[Bonzo]

ronnie stay away from airproducts. i signed up with them. got the first gas bottles at that really good price then they raped me on all the following ones. i think my first half size bottle of argon from them was about £18 the second one was near £60!!! the rental kept creeping up too as i had it on a monthly tariff.

That was what I was concerned about Ash :eek: Thanks for the heads up mate.
I did question the guy about the very low price of Argon & all he said was : It goes to show you are using the wrong suplier " !!??

No prices listed on their web site either :confused:

[AshG]

from what i could see they are a typical american company. reel you in with flashy marketing and low introductory prices then once they have you signed up screw you over.

[davidimurray]

I use Target Tools in Gloucester. Andy has a few distributors around the UK, certainly covers areas as far apart as Manchester and Devon.He does a deal where you hire a bottle that costs around £50 for 3 years, there is a refundable deposit of around £30 and then around £25 per refill. His number is 01452 739005 or email targetgas@blueyonder.co.uk. Can supply Argon/Co2 or straight argon as I get for Tig welding.

It works out great for me as I used to pop up quite often when building the chassis. Have barely used the welder since so the bottles haven't cost me anything the past few months :p

[Bonzo]

Cheer's for the info David :)

That is the one downside of living in the far West of the country, unable to take advantage of the likes of Adams gas & the other hobby supliers :(

I'll buz an email off to them ;)

[tkpm]

Ronnie let me how you get on as my year is about to end BOC.

Terry

[davidimurray]

Ronnie

Did you speak to Andy at target tools? Just had a chat on the phone with him - off to see him on sat to get a couple of gas bottles.

[twinturbo]

Spotted these guys in Practical Classics, may be worth contacting.

http://www.adamsgas.co.uk/Categories.aspx?id=132

[Bonzo]

Hi David

Not as yet, still on my to do list :o :o

Been wrapped up in the Roadster for the last few days.

Ideally, I would need full size cylinders .... When in full swing, I do tend to get through the small cylinders quite quickly ( Y size )
If I have Y size Cylinders from BOC they are almost the same price to fill as the size W :(

For instance
Pure Argon W size £71.51
Pure Argon Y size £53.30

I have decided to give Air products a wide berth & stick with BOC for my Argoshield but will explore other options for my Pure Argon needs ;)

[davidimurray]

There is a good comparison of gas prices here -

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tAo9x2FO_qy-e-_i0uhGspA&output=html

So if your using lots of gas the price/l is better.

Out of interest Ronnie how much do you use? I am just about to pick up bottle 7 and 8 for the car build. First bottle was a practice bottle to get used to the Tig set so I've used 6440 litres so far Tig welding my car together and these last couple of bottles are for finishing the wishbones off. Those 6 bottles so far does also including patching up a couple of cars and a few exhaust systems for people.

Each refill costs around £22 (depending on what deal you do on the day :) ) but with no rental.

[Bonzo]

That is a very good spread sheet David :cool:

Been trying to find out how many litre's of gas is in a W size cylinder for ages.

My gas useage varies wildly, some years one W will last me all year & others I get through 2-3

I quite often get in some largish pre-preped, weld only jobs.& my little brother will often use the MIG welder ( He provides a replacement full cylinder )

Since I started alloy TIG welding again earlier this year, I would estimate that I have used about one full cylinder (W) of Argon.
Quite hard to estimate the true useage because I had a 1/2 full cylinder hooked up to my DC Tig .... Wasted quite a bit of that playing with the AC TIG, especialy being over keen with the Argon flow rates ( See the gas go !! ) :D
I am now about 1/2 way into my latest Argon cylinder .... Again, wasting a bit of gas experimenting with some back purging ;)

Since I have found my flowrate chart, the gas is lasting a lot longer.

Been dreaming up some alloy products to produce just so as i can keep the alloy Tig welding set up, self financing.
Still searching for a decent range of alloy stock to keep prices keen.

Swirl pots & header tanks springs to mind, to that end I have been looking for some 100mm X 14SWG alloy tube .... Nearest I have foud at the moment is 16 SWG.
Not being a design engineer, I am unsure if 16 SWG is up to the job !!??

Been really enjoying working with the TIG as it is a nice sit down job that does not tire me out :)