Bike-engined - should I just scrap the donor?

[Renrut]

I'm finally making progress into what I originally planned about 2 years ago. I'm going ahead with a roadster inspired bike engined middy based on MR2 running gear. The donor is stripped of parts. The engine and parts I don't need have already been sold. Rest is in storage in the garage.

However I still have the shell sat on my driveway and my missus is getting annoyed by the rusty sight. Now I know I won't be able to get an age related plate because I won't be building it with the Donor's engine. So should I just scrap the shell off completely to save me worrying about the V5 and tax liability and register it as a completely amateur built thing? Or should I cut the VIN plates out, cut it up, weight it in and use the VIN plates anyway. And what photos, docs do I need if I go down either route?

[fabbyglass]

Chuck the thing away and opt for a q plate as when you come round to mot time they use pre 1975 rules...no emissions..:D

[bobbyh]

i didnt know q plates where tested on per 1975 ruels yay

[Renrut]

Oh ok. Does that mean there are any extra hoops to leap through by going that route?

Quite like the idea of running sans cat :cool:

Hopefully I'll get time over the xmas break to finalise the chassis plans enough to start welding. I'll post them up if people are interested.

[Renrut]

Scrap man took the bare shell away today, so it's gonna be a complete 'amateur build' now rather than a radically modified chassis. So its time to start cleaning up the parts, selling what I don't need and making use of the bits I do. Looking over the piles of stuff it might take longer than I originally anticipated just to get my garage back to a usable level. :o

If anyone wants a pair of doors from an MR2 let me know ;)

[hillbillyracer]

Hello Renrut, no matter now but your MR2 was a Mk1 anyway was'nt it? Cats did'nt come in till 1992 so you would'nt need one anyway.
I'm not sure that the emissions test is the same as pre1975 for a Q, when I enquiered about them so I knew which way to go on my build the lad in my MOT station said the Q plate test was only visual (mabye that's what pre 75 is?), but the pre 1992 test was easy enough to pass so long as things were in decent order. I'm going to try to get the age related plate from my H reg Sierra donor.

[Renrut]

Hey HBR, didnt realise you were on here too! It is indeed no matter now as the MR2 shell has been scrapped and officially deregistered :(

However I still have all the hubs and whatnots so I'm still planning to go ahead with the roadsteresque build when I get time but it all hinges on me getting my finger out and not faffing. Currently scratching my head and trying to suss out suspension geometry using the MR2 hubs. Lots of little bits I need to work out on the suspension side of things. Anyone know some good websites or books on suspension construction? :confused:

On the plus side my bro has promised me his spare SP-1 engine if it doesnt sell on ebay this week, so once I've got that I can take some accurate measurements :D

[AshG]

Q plate does not mean visual emission inspection please don’t go round telling new builders this as it is wrong! There are several different tests regardless of q plate or not!!

Class 1
if the engine fitted to the car is pre 1975 then it’s a simple smoke test.

Class 2
if your engine is pre august 1992 you need don’t need a cat but your Carbon and hydro carbon emissions will be tested!!!

if the engine was built From AUGUST 1975 to AUGUST 1986 then the carbon emissions must be below 4.5 and hydro carbons below 1200ppm with no lambda test

if the engine was built From AUGUST 1986 to AUGUST 1992 then the carbon limit is 3.5 and hydro carbons below 1200ppm with no lambda test

Class 3
if your engine is post 1992 then it must have a cat fitted and will have a full emissions test carbon, hydro carbon and lambda. Carbon must be below 0.5, Hydro Carbon must be below 200ppm and lambda must be between 0.97-1.03

when you present the car for sva, written documentation proving the engines age must be presented. This either needs to be obtained from the manufacturer of the engine or proven some other way. if you cannot prove the age of the engine it will be tested under the Class 3 post 1992 regulations so be warned!!

There is only one other thing to worry about and that’s if you want a brand new current date registration. If you build a brand new car with all new parts including new engine too get a new plate. The engine will be tested on the today’s current euro emissions regulations not the post 1992 regs!! The only way to get round it is to fit a reconditioned engine as you are allowed one major reconditioned part! Meaning you will revert back to the class 1,2,3 regs depending on engine age due to amateur build status relaxations on emissions.

[AshG]

another little foot note. now that all mot's are computerised the nice friendly mot computer pulls up what emissions regs the car has to meet so what ever it is at sva will be what it is at mot. :-(

[Renrut]

Ah well it'll be Class 3 then, as its a 2000 model year engine I believe (won't be before then thats for certain). I'll probably need switchable engine mappings so I can have an emissions friendly map too.

[hillbillyracer]

Yeah, been here since the start but not been on for a good while due not doing anything with this project but i've got back onto the job over christmas, finished stripping the donor that's been sat outside my workshop for 2 years!
Back to your problem I fitted mk1 Golf front suspension to the front of my grasser Mini, to do this I cut the entire front from a Golf in the scrappy & stripped the bits I wanted from it. I then made a jig that picked up on all the suspension points on the shell & used it to get the mounts in the right place.
This would of course just give you the MR2 geometry but I'd think Toyota did'nt do a bad job. Of course to do this you'd need a scrap MR2 shell to make the jig on & yours is... BUGGER!

Books wise I've got Competition Car Suspension by Allan Staniforth, I did'nt get away with that too well but it's rated by others (must be me eh?).
I found Racing & Sportscar Chassis Design by Michael Costin & David Phipps better, it's an old book but the laws of physics aint changed! You'll have to find a S/H copy as it long out of print, it turns up on Ebay often enough.

[hillbillyracer]

Q plate does not mean visual emission inspection please don’t go round telling new builders this as it is wrong! There are several different tests regardless of q plate or not!!

OOH! I'll take my slap on the wrist like a man!:o
Just what my MOT man told me, just shows when it's not run of the mill they can be as confused as anyone!

[Renrut]

Yeah I did think about making a jig over the xmas break before scrapping it, but came to the conclusion that I'd simply end up with an open top MR2, as everything else falls logically where they are on the MR2 :rolleyes:

Does anyone have accurate dimensions for the standard (sierra) hubs? Then I'll know if I can get away with just using the MR2 ones with roadster wishbones.

For the record it wasn't Toyota that sorted the suspension on the MR2 mk1, t'was Lotus, hence the Mk1 being the best handling one :cool:

[AshG]

just trying to help :D

[les g]

ash
i thought i read pre august 1995 kit car engines were non cat ??????????
cheers les g

[AshG]

nope its 1992

this is scanned straight from the book ;)

http://www.haynesroadster.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/limits.jpg

[Renrut]

just trying to help :D

'sok I'd rather have a million things pointed out that I'm well aware of than one thing not and only discover it the hard way :o

It won't qualify as an age related plate as I won't have anywhere near the points to retain the donor's age. Don't have the engine, gearbox or chassis so according to the points system I'd get a Q anyway. But thats ok, its not the end of the world.

[les g]

ash
is that from the mot book or sva book
les g

[hillbillyracer]

Now there's something I dont like in that emissions data table, engines of an unknown age are subject to a post 92 test! What if you got a c#%* of an MOT/SVA tester & as you could'nt prove the age of your motor it ended up in the post 92 catergory? You could have a Kent or a Pinto which pretty much have to be pre 92 but have to get it up to the later emissions standard.

[Renrut]

I have posted this up on another forum but for the benefit of those who haven't seen it yet - here's the very engine that will go in it!

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w317/renrut_ppc/BEC/Image032-1.jpg

I picked it up from my brother's place last weekend. Last time it was on the dyno it was 140bhp at the wheel :D

Only weighs about 80 kg too.

Its a 2000 model Honda SP-1 V-twin. Any idea what emissions rules I'll have to stick to?