Mx-5 Donor - SSC

[spud69]

Fellow forum members may remember that Saturn was putting together a Roadster based on the Mazda Rx-8 Rotary Wankel engine, well that car was just about a rolling chassis but over the xmas break i had a chance to have a good think about what is best for the Haynes Roadster and fellow builders. As a result of this i have decided that the Rotary Wankel based car was a bit of a fantasy, although it will happen at some point, it was not the best way forward for Saturn and the Roadster as a whole. To cut it short the way onward is a Mazda MX-5 based roadster, which we are well on the way to now having a rolling chassis. The donor car has been acquired, stripped and parts waiting to all go in.

The car will be based on an Mx-5 used as the sole donor with all similar parts used as with the Sierra, the only exception being the Rear Uprights which can also be used from the Mx-5. The build will be blogged on the Saturn Site, along with the build for the 2 Saturn Roadsters, in conjunction with TeamTrain Ltd in Newcastle, which will be raced on the Northern Race Series Cup first race being in April at Croft - transfer of all running gear from Ginetta G20 to Roadster starts this weekend with a lot of help and work from Flyerncle / Paul.

The body work will be re-worked for the Mx-5 build with the wider and longer scooped bonnet, similar to the Westfield V8 bonnet mentioned a couple of days ago. This will allow the engine to be raised slightly which will allow the sump to be un-modified. Once a rolling chassis is built the full build, in a similar format to the Chris Gibbs's, will be put up in pdf format on the Saturn site so that other builders may use to build their own chassis, wishbones, chassis plates and also a build guide to accompany it. The pdf's will contain all measurements and plans for amateur build as the Haynes book.

Of course, the full Saturn range will be extended to include all relevant parts for the roadster based on the Mx-5 donor, as will the pre-cut chassis packs be available from HandyAndy. Although builders will have full access to plans in order to build their own from scratch should they wish. Hopefully this will keep the full self build concept alive following the slow demise of the Sierra as a donor. I know that some other builders have started or are having thoughts about the Mx5 donor route but it is mainly intended to be a way of standardising the roadster with a change of donor while making available all the build info to other builders to make the transition as smooth as possible and help with the longevity of a fantastic car.

All the Best....Andrew

[twinturbo]

That sounds good Andy,

Widening the donor base is going to be key for the survival of the self/kit car industry in general but especially sierra based cars .

I have had a sly look at one or two mx's on ebay now and again whilst thinking about future ideas.

TT

[les g]

thats bloody great news Andy.
now for next trick can you do the same again with a BMW donor
many thanx les g

[skov]

Excellent news, I've been trying to decide whether to go the tried and trusted Sierra route, or somehow bodge an MX5 in myself, and this may well tip the balance in the MX5's favour :D

[HandyAndy]

thats bloody great news Andy.
now for next trick can you do the same again with a BMW donor
many thanx les g

He,s not stripping my Beemer down to use as the test bed :D

Indeed it is a fantastic step forward to widen the Donor base for the Roadster,
I,ve seen the work & hours Andy ( Spud) has put into this new project & its looking great, Nice one Andy :cool:

cheers
andy

[Airhead]

That's a fantastic idea, using an MX5 donor; why hasn't anyone thought of that before!

M

[Big Vern]

Fantastic news as it'll save me doing the donkey work now:D


BV.:)

[Davey]

Excellent news Andy. Trouble is I know where there is a K plate MX and its probably going to be cheap, hmmmmm:rolleyes: .

D.

[spud69]

Excellent news Andy. Trouble is I know where there is a K plate MX and its probably going to be cheap, hmmmmm:rolleyes: .

D.

There are thousands of Mx-5's available, a quick search on E-Bay shows this and at a good price. When you strip down the car its quite amazing how many similarities there are between that and the roadster. Probably why the Mx-5 gets so much praise for its superior handling. It's the obvious donor choice.

Andrew

[Enoch]

I think this is pure genius:) I had a look on ebay and saw there were about 2 suitable Sierra donors and hundreds of MX5's. I understand they have great engines and boxes in them so if it can be made to work then this absolutely has to be a winner. Given the quality of Andy's stuff this has to be good news for the roadster. I wish you the very best with this venture which I am sure will be up to your usual high standards and sure as hell makes sense from a commercial point of view.
Bloody good stuff, I say:)
Dave.

[CaptainCrash1971]

Nice one Andy, pulled another blinder.
I'm now expecting you to design a car that costs 50 quid to build, runs on tap water, and looks like something designed in Italy. Turns from a single seater, to a 2 seater, to a 4 seater at the touch of a button. Oh yeah, and it flies, literally. At Mach 2.
I'll log on in a fortnight to download the plans! :)

[ozzy1]

I second that as 50 quid would be well spent:D
Only problem here is mx5 go for silly money no matter how old and regs state that for building a clubman the engine has to be '99 or newer:eek:

[fabbyglass]

Nice one Andy, pulled another blinder.
I'm now expecting you to design a car that costs 50 quid to build, runs on tap water, and looks like something designed in Italy. Turns from a single seater, to a 2 seater, to a 4 seater at the touch of a button. Oh yeah, and it flies, literally. At Mach 2.
I'll log on in a fortnight to download the plans! :)

Blimey for all that surely it has to be worth £55 you tight beggar...;)

Any pics yet Andy?

[spud69]

There are some pics Fabby but i'm still not happy with the rear suspension, so until revision 5, at least, there wont be any pics - wont be long though then i can cad the chassis.

Don't want much do you Alan......:eek: If the chemists get their fingers out and split water into its elements, cheaply, we'll all be running on tap water. I reckon they already can but the Arabs and Texans have put a hold on it until they've sold all the oil.....;)

Cheers...Andrew

[Davey]

There are thousands of Mx-5's available, a quick search on E-Bay shows this and at a good price. When you strip down the car its quite amazing how many similarities there are between that and the roadster. Probably why the Mx-5 gets so much praise for its superior handling. It's the obvious donor choice.

Andrew

Yeah but knowing where there is one (less than 200 yds away as we speak) and that you are sorting a design to use the MX5 its sorely tempting to go and buy it. Trouble is I really can't afford it and I already have way too many projects on the go anyway. i suppose I could always get it and if its MOTable I could run it for a while as a company car:D then when everything else is completed (somewhere around 2028 at my present work rate) I could just write the MX off (financially speaking) and build a Saturn MX Roadster;) .

D.

[fabbyglass]

I can fully understand the need for a new donor and why the mx5 is suitable but my daft head is finding it hard to fathom why you would break a sports car only to make another one? If Mx5's are cheap why not just strip it out fit a cage and run it as it is as no IVA to pay for....:confused:

Unless it's a smacked car but then surely chances of things being poggered are high?

[spud69]

I can fully understand the need for a new donor and why the mx5 is suitable but my daft head is finding it hard to fathom why you would break a sports car only to make another one? If Mx5's are cheap why not just strip it out fit a cage and run it as it is as no IVA to pay for....:confused:

Mainly because we want our own self build roadster on the road which is even better performing, half the weight, 540kg v 1080kg, twice the bhp / ton, and the Mk1 Mx5 is notorious for rotten front and rear wings which are a factory item and expensive to replace.

And we are all daft.....Andrew

[fabbyglass]

Well that's fair enough......good to know I'm not alone in being daft :D

[Bonzo]

A huge well done to you Andy.

The MX5 donor option is a huge step forward in the development of the Haynes Roadster :cool:

Even more delighted that you are willing to share all of the development work with us mere mortals :D

Having watched Saturn go from strength to strength, I have nothing but admiration for all that has been achieved in such a short time.

Customer service and promoting the Roadster as a self build concept, as allways, first & foremost.
Passion for the brand ahead of just making a quick buck .... What more can you say :)

Look forward to following your progress :cool:

[alga]

That's great news! I love Japanese cars :) MX-5 was inspired by the classic British roadsters, and is a faithful modern tribute to them, their direct descendant.

However, pragmatically, I'd be more enthusiastic about a BMW donor. MX-5's are quite rare around here. On one used car ads board there are 37 Sierras and 5 MX-5's, the cheapest one having the asking price of 3500 quid, and over a thousand E36 Bimmers.

[spud69]

Sorry Albert but you cant please everybody. on the up side there are plenty of mx5 parts available and maybe you could put together of the 2, its mainly the suspension areas that are the awkward part of the crossover.

Regards....Andrew

[fabbyglass]

Sorry Albert but you cant please everybody. on the up side there are plenty of mx5 parts available and maybe you could put together of the 2, its mainly the suspension areas that are the awkward part of the crossover.

Regards....Andrew

Andy,
Do bmw builders a deal....say you will do the mods if they have a nice shade of pink for the bodywork:cool:

[geeksandlies]

Interesting, very interesting :D

[fabbyglass]

Any pictures yet Andy?:)

[spud69]

there'll be some tomorrow Mark ;)

[fabbyglass]

Okey dokey :)

[spud69]

There you go Mark,

Started a build blog with pics on FlickR. Any constructive comments appreciated.....:)

Cheers....Andrew

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/sets/72157625932340212/

[fabbyglass]

Just had a wee nosey and looking good so far, of course I asked a few daft questions and left some ideas/thoughts for you:)

[flyerncle]

Looking good !;)

[chunky2772]

I like the way the rear suspention is mounted to the upper wishbone but i carnt see how you can change the camber adjustment!
Do you plan have no rear adjustment. (just a thought)

[spud69]

Hello Mick,

I did put it in the comments but i'm going to put the adjustment on the lower wishbones now i've decided on the uppers. Tranny tunnel needs widening at the rear slightly then the front to be done.

Cheers....Andrew

[chunky2772]

Sorry andy missed that one diden't read all the posts just looked at pics mate!
I had to make new rear lower wishbones for my car the mx5 wishbones were no good. The power of the bike engine totaly destroyed the rubber bush ended up having to make heavy duty wishbones with a nylon bush.
Good luck with the design its looking well.

[Tatey]

It's looking good Andy. However I do have 1 comment about the proposed rear camber adjuster. You say there will be 2 threaded inserts on each side of the wishbone, so if i understand it correctly you will have 4 camber adjusters for the rear of the car, 2 each side?

If so then I'm not entirely sure as to how good of an idea this would be, as it would mean that it could be quite easy to add some toe-in or toe-out to the rear wheels, meaning that you could end up in the situation of scrubbing the rear tyres, or even with the rear wheels being set at an angle so that the car will have a tendency to turn around the rear wheels even when trying to drive in a straight line.

[alga]

I'd say it's the other way around: you have an easy way to zero the toe on the rear.

[ffloyd]

As you are most likely aware there are quite a few Mx-5 builds in the states on the LocostUSA site. Check out Scotts 1999 Miata on the completed builds section . He machined neat brackets that use the stock eccentrics for the rear camber and toe adjustment. His car ultilizes stock a-arms but i am using the same setup with Haynes a-arms on my Miata based build that is still in the design stage.

[spud69]

Cheers Mick,

Yes i'm not too keen on the rubber bushes either.

The rear lower arm adjusters will be 2 on each arm Tatey, you will have to screw them in and at in unison. But as Alga says you will be able to make small amounts of toe adjustment with them. I also plan to have the same setup on the front lower wishbones to allow castor adjustment to front uprights.

Thanks ffoyd, found the LocostUSA site but cannot find a link to Scotts page if you have one.

Many Thanks.....Andrew

[AshG]

Andy,
Do bmw builders a deal....say you will do the mods if they have a nice shade of pink for the bodywork:cool:

still stuck on the pink bodywork idea are we mark. :D

[fabbyglass]

still stuck on the pink bodywork idea are we mark. :D

Pink and black...........:D

[spud69]

Added a new set of pics for the G20 strip down and fitting into roadster:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/sets/72157625812138411/

Regards....Andrew

[ffloyd]

Here is a link to Scott's 1999 Miata build .The adusters allow for 10mm of toe or camber change. I might still use use the Haynes setup on the upper a-arm for major camber changes.
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/download/file.php?id=15513&mode=view

[fabbyglass]

Added a new set of pics for the G20 strip down and fitting into roadster:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/sets/72157625812138411/

Regards....Andrew

I must be losing the plot here.....Andy why are you taking a Ginetta apart to make a seven..........:confused:

[spud69]

I must be losing the plot here.....Andy why are you taking a Ginetta apart to make a seven..........:confused:

Morning Mark,

It is being done by a bloke called Jim who runs the TeamTrain racing team in Newcastle. He has been running 2 G20's in the G20 cup but since they have combined the G20 and G40 cups together he has got a bit fed up with the series. So he has decided to put all the running gear from the G20's into roadster chassis and body and enter them into the Northern Race Series cup instead. We have supplied full kit for him to do this at more or less cost price. For this its going to be 2 SSC stickered cars and we will be involved with the team. Paul, Flyerncle, is also heavily involved with transferring the 2 and getting the roadster on the road. The first car will be track tested and setup at Teesside autodrome over March with the 2nd one being built once they are happy with that. They are aiming for the first round of the Northern cup at Croft in April.

He also involves kids form the local colleges in the cars and racing for which they get a lot out of it and enthusiasm for the cars.

Hope that explains it........Andrew ;)

[fabbyglass]

Cor blimey batman and yeah makes sense now...Monday morning head on sorry:o

Going racing will help sell cars so hope it works out for you matey:)

[HandyAndy]

WoW, thats a great looking Race Truck / awning set up that Team Train have :cool:

a couple of their Race cars in Saturn colours, that will look really smart .

Well done to you & Paul, & Team Train, sounds like a great team to be involved with,

Looking forward to the first race :cool:

cheers
andy

[spud69]

Cheers Andy / Mark,

Let's hope it makes all the graft worthwhile.....:o

Regards...Andrew

[flyerncle]

Shoot me for this but,the Ginetta is not half the car the Teamtrain/Saturn Roadster Race car will be and with no special mods or anything fancy execpt an Omex ecu to replace the Pectel thats fitted to the Ginetta for the race series as it cannot be tuned.

Hope this now makes a little more sense.;)

"The Tent " That setup used to belong to a well known m/cycle team Handy Andy

[flyerncle]

And,the engine/injection system is brand new as is the Quaife close ratio box and Quaife lsd.

Building something of this spec would be costly and having a car to hand that was not going to be raced in the Ginetta cup made more sense to remove the vitals and fit them to the proposed Teamtrain/Saturn Roadster race car.

For instance, Diff £1300,Engine £1312.00,Gearbox £1312.00 all regulated and sealed,this is only my point of view but unless large amount's of money are put into the Ginetta series by ourselves we would be also rans,hence a change of race series.

[Bonzo]

That looks & sounds like a very intersting project to be involved in :cool:

Going to help to put the Roadster on the map, thats for sure.

Well done guys, i'll follow your progress with great interest :):)

[spud69]

That's what it's always about Ronnie, obviously fun factor and commercial too, but putting the roadster on the map. It's going to be an awesome pair of cars thanks mainly to Jim and Paul for getting the project started.

There may also be some free track time at Teesside during March for roadsters and local people, fingers crossed, see how i goes.

Roll on Summer, going to be a good one.....:D

Andrew

[spud69]

Got the tranny tunnel and front geometry / wishbones finished for the Mx5 chassis now. Also completed the bonnet molding for the new bonent to go on the car, also available with standard roadster kit.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/sets/72157625932340212/with/5398246449/

i've attached a picture of the suspension geometry calculation, good software cheers Fabby for the link, gives a good SAL value for a balance between track and road use. First road test drive soonish will be the ultimate test. I've added adjusters to the front lower wishbones so that castor and track width can be adjusted for the car as well as camber and toe in elsewhere. The adjusters can be turned individually to adjust the castor. I have stuck with the poly bushes for the front, rather than rose joints, for ride comfort and there is plenty of adjustment / play on the bracket bolts to get 4 to 5 degrees of castor adjustment. Also by using these in conjunction of the upper adjusters you can adjust the track width to suit.

Just need to trial fit the engine, fab the engine mounts and fully weld the chassis and it can all be cadded and parts put up on the website including pre cut chassis packs by HandyAndy. Plus the build plans available on the website.

Shouldn't be long now......Andrew

[Bonzo]

You have certainly been a busy bunny Andy, looks like you have made some great progress. :cool:

Must say, that new bonnet is looking very funky indeed .... Methink's that would look great in Red :D

Tis great to see Saturn taking the time & effort to preserve the future of the Roaster :) :)

[skov]

Looking good Andy! Love that bonnet :cool:
Eagerly awaiting the plans, I'm going to need them soon!

[Blacktop]

Hey, newbie here so be kind :)

Decided to take the plunge and get myself a kit and I am really interested in Saturn's haynes roadster using the MX-5 doner and have a couple of questions.

Will there be any cost difference in the kit price compared to the Sierra doner kit?

Will the rear track be any narrower using the MX-5 doner?

When roughly is the kit expected to be ready for purchase (1 month, 6 months, 1 year)?

[HandyAndy]

Hi Blacktop...a warm welcome to the forum :)

Andy ( Owner of Saturn Sports Cars ) is busy in a meeting at the mo ( its regarding the Foster Parenting that he does )....

So I,m sure he,ll be online later this evening & will reply to your request for info on the MX5 kit package .

Not trying to interfere, just so you know he,s offline at the mo.

cheers
andy

[leroybrown911]

Just a question incase I ever finish this one and build another, gulp!

Somebody said MK1 MX5 is the donor, am I right that this came with a 1.6 or 1.8 engine?

How easy would it be to put the later engine and box in? Or just mate the later engine to the MK1 box? Later MX5s had 2.0l engines.

Forgive me if I am mistaken, not so sure on MX5s

[skov]

Just a question incase I ever finish this one and build another, gulp!

Somebody said MK1 MX5 is the donor, am I right that this came with a 1.6 or 1.8 engine?

How easy would it be to put the later engine and box in? Or just mate the later engine to the MK1 box? Later MX5s had 2.0l engines.

Forgive me if I am mistaken, not so sure on MX5s

Yep, Mk1's were 1.6l and ~120bhp, and 1.8 and ~130bhp. They also did a detuned 1.6 that only put out about 90bhp.

I'm pretty sure you could drop an early Mk2 engine in without any bother, not sure about later ones though.
The 2l didn't appear till the 3rd gen, and I know bugger all about them!

[spud69]

Hello Blacktop and Leroy,

Apologies but just got back online, the chassis and the suspension design is nearly complete for the MX5 as a donor. There are a few other things to finalise but it is almost finished from which we will be putting all the items from chassis packs upto complete kits up for sale via the Saturn Stores, there will also be detailed cad drawings and build guides, similar to the Haynes guide, published via the website for builders that would like to use the revised design but still want to build their own car from scratch. Keeping the Haynes self build philosophy alive.

Prices are expected to be very similar to the Sierra as a donor with no significant extra work to do to modify the design for Mx5 donor. The wishbones are a bit more complicated, however, the use of the donor rear uprights negates the need to fabricate new ones. The aim is to have a completed car ready to show at Stoneleigh, shouldn't be a problem but there is a lot of other work to aswell. Speaking of other, the car for the Northern Race Series cup is coming on nice, thanks to Paul and a few others, and will be on for track testing end of this month with a second to follow.

The Mk1 Mx5 is an ideal donor and we are using the 130bhp 1.8l engine and there are loads of tuning mods available for this engine. The standard 1.8 will have plenty of boot to give some big grins.

Hope this helps......Andrew

[Blacktop]

Cheers Andrew, looking forward to it being on sale :D

[Davidbolam]

I dropped into saturn last week and was very impressed by the friendly welcome and the product. Nice to meet Handy Andy as well.

[Antnicuk]

hi, excellent work there. Blacktop asked what i also wanted to know and that was, is the mx5 rear track any narrower than the sierra one? I am considering converting my live axle Stylus to IRS and i am looking for a suitable donor. If the MX5 is slightly narrower than the sierra meaning i dont have to use shortened shafts, it would be very handy, especially if the mx5 uprights can be used as you say.

Its a shame you are not going down the rotary engine route yet. I have built an RX7 powered stylus and my cousin and i built an RX8 powered tiger avon. The rotary engine is perfect for lightweight kit cars, especially the rx8, on a stock 2nd hand engine, we made 251 bhp at the fly with nothing but a decent exhaust and airfilter. The 6 speed box is great and you have a very linear power band and 9500 rpm to play with, so all in all a great combination.

good luck with the project, anything that keeps the kit car industry going has got to be good.

[Davidbolam]

what is the most recent mx5 donor you can use without having problems with emmissions ie cat etc?

[Big Vern]

You will require a Pre 1995 engine to avoid cat emissions.
All mx-5's run with a cat as standard so I would be less concerned so long as you take the stock fuel injection system and wiring - as they do with the westfield mx5.

HTH BV.

[skov]

You will require a Pre 1995 engine to avoid cat emissions.
All mx-5's run with a cat as standard so I would be less concerned so long as you take the stock fuel injection system and wiring - as they do with the westfield mx5.

HTH BV.

I hope you're right, as mine's a '94 :cool:

[Davidbolam]

Hello spud I hope the mx5 donor build is going well. Is there any chance of some more photos on the link. I have just made my first purchase. The uprights! I found a company in rowlands Gill who supply mx5 parts to mnr. All they do is break and race mx5s!

[spud69]

Hello David,

My camera is at home at the moment but i shall bring it in tomorrow and put a load more pics up on the site. There is just the steering column to fit now from the mx5 and all will be ready to cad up.

Cheers.....Andrew

[CTWV50]

Can't wait, been thinking of building a locost for years but was always put off by the sierra donor car. MX5 is so much more available these days and as has been said the engine and box are more refined. Looking to the future, any idea anyone what sort of power and torque the MX5 box can put up with?:)

Ooo! Better start learning to weld!

[Wee T]

I can't remember the torque figure but i've had an MX5 running just over 300 bhp on standard gearbox and differential.



Can't wait, been thinking of building a locost for years but was always put off by the sierra donor car. MX5 is so much more available these days and as has been said the engine and box are more refined. Looking to the future, any idea anyone what sort of power and torque the MX5 box can put up with?:)

Ooo! Better start learning to weld!

[spud69]

I've added some more pics of the front suspension and steering rack:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/sets/72157625932340212/

The only thing left to complete now is the support frame for the steering column using the stock mx5 one, then the chassis and suspension can be cadded and cutting lists put out. Time is restrictive at the moment but just to get things moving on a bit, HandyAndy is coming over tomorrow to start putting together some cutting lists for the diff area of the chassis. Hopefully will be getting it all cadded soon.

Andrew

[skov]

I've added some more pics of the front suspension and steering rack:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/sets/72157625932340212/

The only thing left to complete now is the support frame for the steering column using the stock mx5 one, then the chassis and suspension can be cadded and cutting lists put out. Time is restrictive at the moment but just to get things moving on a bit, HandyAndy is coming over tomorrow to start putting together some cutting lists for the diff area of the chassis. Hopefully will be getting it all cadded soon.

Andrew

Can't wait Spud, I'm itching to get started on my rear end!

I've decided not to use my MX5 now (it's too good to break), but if all goes well I should be purchasing another MX5 for my donor tomorrow :cool:
It's a 1991 1.6, so hopefully I'll be able to confirm that that fits too (it is a 1.8 you're using isn't it?)

[HandyAndy]

I'm itching to get started on my rear end!



:D ...that made me laugh :D sorry ...long day n all that :p

as Spud has said, I,m going over to the unit tomorrow & will have all the rear diff cage/ tub frame etc dimensions confirmed by the end of the day :)

cheers
andy

[spud69]

Can't wait Spud, I'm itching to get started on my rear end!

I've decided not to use my MX5 now (it's too good to break), but if all goes well I should be purchasing another MX5 for my donor tomorrow :cool:
It's a 1991 1.6, so hopefully I'll be able to confirm that that fits too (it is a 1.8 you're using isn't it?)

Its the same car and gearbox skov just the smaller engine so all should be the same including engine mountings.

Andrew

[CTWV50]

Got my eye on a local mx5 donor too, raised some cash this morning for it's purchase. Good to know the gearbox is strong. I have really never looked twice at mx5's before so have a lot of research to do. Hoping to inspire and involve my 7 year old in the build over the coming years, really want him to have a good engineering mind, although at the moment he just wants to be a racing driver! Don't we all!!:D Great pictures on your Saturn Site, I shall show the young'un tonight.

Can you tell me what other parts are required (if any) from other vehicles. Is an escort mk1 steering rack still required?

[HandyAndy]

I'm itching to get started on my rear end!



I spent the afternoon at Saturns unit, the "rear end" has now been finalised for its dimensions, I,ll email you this evening Skov with part I.D. codes & dimensions of each piece.

I,d just like to say that Spud has done a fantastic job putting this chassis together, the work put into getting it spot on takes quite a bit ( alot ) of time, but the time & effort Spud has put into this will help lots of builders using the MX5 as a donor & will ensure the Roadster will have a long future indeed.

Well done Spud :cool:

cheers
andy

[flyerncle]

Another £50 in the post !!!!!!!:p

[spud69]

Well its all done, steering column fixings and brackets finished this evening. Have put up some latest pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/sets/72157625932340212/

Next stage is to cad it all up, create a build guide and plans, put together a chassis cutting list, chassis plate list, fully weld the chassis and get the engine and rolling chassis complete next week. Parts, where applicable, and all the plans / guides should be ready within 1 or 2 weeks now that all the hard work is done. Soon be time to sleep.......;)

Then when all this is done start again for a version of a single seater now we have the bodywork molds to......:o

Thanks for the support to all so far..........Andrew

[TQ_uk]

Hi Andy,

quick question - any reason for not using the MX5 rack? Reason I ask is I've a complete front subframe inc PAS and thought if you were maintaining the MX5 geometry (?) it would've been logical to use the rack, apparently easily modded to get rid of PAS system...

[Airhead]

The MX5 rack is about 140mm too long. In order for the rack to function correctly with respect the steering geometry the pivot points need to all align. Put a rubber band between the center of the bolt holes on the top and bottom suspension mounts the pivots on the rack also need to fall on this line.

Matt

[spud69]

Cheers Matt, you beat me to it.

Just to keep the steering geometry the same, and its easier to get semi quick and quick racks for the escort.


Andrew

[TQ_uk]

So the geometry is based on the existing Sierra setup in terms of wishbone lengths, pivot positions etc ( albeit using MX5 uprights) rather than lifting the complete MX5 geometry?

What problems would doing the latter involve? Is it more a case of the brackets on the chassis would be in an awkward place? I only ask as having a complete front end in the garage would have thought the simplest way not to mess about with geometry would be to copy it with more aesthetic wishbones etc?
I know the rack pivots need to align with the wishbone pivots (rubber band analogy) but from a single donor/budget perspective wondered why not go with what you (I)'ve got.

[skov]

So the geometry is based on the existing Sierra setup in terms of wishbone lengths, pivot positions etc ( albeit using MX5 uprights) rather than lifting the complete MX5 geometry?

What problems would doing the latter involve? Is it more a case of the brackets on the chassis would be in an awkward place? I only ask as having a complete front end in the garage would have thought the simplest way not to mess about with geometry would be to copy it with more aesthetic wishbones etc?
I know the rack pivots need to align with the wishbone pivots (rubber band analogy) but from a single donor/budget perspective wondered why not go with what you (I)'ve got.

Um, doesn't the original version use a sierra donor, yet an escort rack...?

The MX5 rack's wider, which would mean the wishbone mounts would need to come out, meaning a wider front end (I think!)

I really like Spud's approach of keeping the MX5 chassis as close as possible to the original. It's making my life easier building it, as most of the book, parts, and the knowledge on this forum still applies.

[TQ_uk]

Just to clear things up a bit, this is all theoretical from my end as I don't have a chassis built as yet, just an MX5 front end (to look at wistfully ;) )

I'm assuming from Andy's pics etc the MX5 rear end seems to be used un-narrowed and thus the rear and front track will be as per MX5.

So I'm then guessing the new front wishbones are longer than stock MX5, (ie the pivots
are closer together than the rusty bits in my garage) so making original rack
inappropriate?

I thought that maybe the reason for using the Escort rack came from the Haynes being an adaptation from the original Locost and its just sorta 'stuck'

What ball joints are you using Andy?

Sorry for so many questions; I'm just trying to understand the geometry changes and rationale behind using certain parts is all.

Cheers

[spud69]

Just to clear things up a bit, this is all theoretical from my end as I don't have a chassis built as yet, just an MX5 front end (to look at wistfully ;) )

I'm assuming from Andy's pics etc the MX5 rear end seems to be used un-narrowed and thus the rear and front track will be as per MX5.

So I'm then guessing the new front wishbones are longer than stock MX5, (ie the pivots
are closer together than the rusty bits in my garage) so making original rack
inappropriate?

I thought that maybe the reason for using the Escort rack came from the Haynes being an adaptation from the original Locost and its just sorta 'stuck'

What ball joints are you using Andy?

Sorry for so many questions; I'm just trying to understand the geometry changes and rationale behind using certain parts is all.

Cheers

Hi TQ,

I think as everyone realises suspension geometry is a bit of a minefield luckily , coincidence or not, the Mx5 geometry is very similar to the roadster the main work was to adapt wishbones to work with the mx5 uprights and the Haynes chassis keeping the wishbone brackets in the same place and the haynes chassis as close as possible to the original and adapt the wishbones to give the correct geometry. The safest option for me was to use the tried and tested geometry of the roadster as is. Rear geometry is quite straight forward and uses mx5 track width with adjustable lower wishbones to alter camber and toe in of rear wheels. The front was setup using the software below:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/5442665532/in/set-72157625932340212/

giving a SAL figure of 1134mm giving the following ride:

Hints: From the Competition Car Suspension book.

Short SAL (500 – 1000mm) gives very good roll centre location, keeps the outer wheel vertical in corners, but going badly to positive camber in droop and negative in bump (accelaration squat and braking).

Long SAL (1800 – 4500mm) provides lower roll centres but less control over their sideways movement, minimal scrub (track variation), poor outer wheel control going into positive camber, but only small camber change in bump/droop.

Medium SAL (1000 – 1800mm) is the transition area between long and short with, as you might expect, a bit of this and a bit of that.

Ultra-long SAL (near parallel) provides excellent vertical control of very low roll centres but possible enormous sideways movement, wheel angles virtually unaltered in bump/droop but very poor control of wheels in roll, with near equivalency to body roll angle.

Also the front can be fully adjusted with twin adjusters on lower wishbones for camber, castor, track width.

Ball joint are standard Mx5 lower joints and transit drag links for top with upright reamed out slightly. With Sierra drag link ends. Escort rack used mainly to retain the Haynes chassis design as much as poss plus escorts racks are readily available new in different ratios.

I suppose the proof will be in the pudding, shouldn't be too long before we can give it a try it - cant wait......:D

Also starting to mold up a grp rear diffuser for the car this week, which will fit the standard Haynes to. Should be good.

Andrew

[TQ_uk]

Cheers for that - reading back through my posts I think I could probably have asked things a bit clearer :o

Makes much more sense now though :)

[spud69]

Cheers for that - reading back through my posts I think I could probably have asked things a bit clearer :o

Makes much more sense now though

Thanks TQ,

Helps get it all clear in my head to, there's a lot to think about.....:o

Just wait for the single seater next..........:o :o

Andrew

[flyerncle]

Race car needs one !!!!!:p

[fabbyglass]

Is it the single seater book about to land on the shelves then?:)

[flyerncle]

Do you know something we dont ........:confused:

[fabbyglass]

Do you know something we dont ........:confused:

No I tried emailing Mr G but email came back to me, bloody sure I never wrote it on a boomerang but sometimes I don't know what day it is let alone what I have been doing....:D

[spud69]

I'm getting no response from MrG either Mark.

I am talking of the project to come after the Mx-5 donor roadster - if my head doesn't explode first.....:cool:

Got some updated pics of the Roadster / Ginetta race car progress, thanks mainly to Paul, Flyerncle. It's certainly getting there now......:D

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/sets/72157625812138411/

Happy Reading.....Andrew

[twinturbo]

Well if the single seater book bombs.. then you have done enough work to go indy on it and seek different publication.

TT

[flyerncle]

Wiring harness/injection system is in, fuel pipes fitted,roll cage is being made by AAS and after initial trials and testing a new exhaust will be fitted.

Front and rear suspension is also fitted but needs setup.

[spud69]

Wiring harness/injection system is in, fuel pipes fitted,roll cage is being made by AAS and after initial trials and testing a new exhaust will be fitted.

Front and rear suspension is also fitted but needs setup.

You've had a hell of a week so far, give yourself a large pat on the back Paul. Brake bias bar and adjuster will be arriving tomorrow so i'll set that all up in the pedal box. Only thing is its my birthday on Saturnday and Anja has put her foot down and has got the kids round on the afternoon and wants me back so if okay i will come up Friday afternoon with bits and get the fuel tank. Spend the afternoon up at Teamtrain.

Cant wait to get setting up the suspension, i'll bring up my inclinometer and it can be setup initially. Did Jim order the temp probe for the tyres?

Thank You....Andrew

[CTWV50]

This might be a stupid question but are you going to keep the PPF frame or does the roadster chassis act as an effective PPF (Power Plant Frame)? Oh and does the propshaft need to be shortened? Is there mx5 based build FAQ anywhere?

[spud69]

Hi CT,

The PPF would be nice to use but will not fit in the roadster without the tranny tunnel being widened a fair amount and losing valuable width from the cockpit. The lightness of the roadster should put less torque on the diff during acceleration and therefore less of a need for the PPF, the PPF is mainly to stop the diff from twisting during acceleration so the chasis is perfectly adequate without it.

Yes the prop will need shortening but there are plenty of good prop firms that can do this.

Regards....Andrew

[CTWV50]

Thanks Andrew, and the polo mk2 rad is good for the mx5 donor car too. So many questions...sorry!

[spud69]

It works fine with a 170hp 2.0l zetec so at the moment i can only say yes, there are different variations, thicknesses, available for the different clio engines. I will get a part number for the rad that has the greater thickness.

Andrew

[skov]

Hi CT,

The PPF would be nice to use but will not fit in the roadster without the tranny tunnel being widened a fair amount and losing valuable width from the cockpit. The lightness of the roadster should put less torque on the diff during acceleration and therefore less of a need for the PPF, the PPF is mainly to stop the diff from twisting during acceleration so the chasis is perfectly adequate without it.

Regards....Andrew

That's right, and the point behind the PPF is to make the car feel more responsive under acceleration.
Because the diff is solidly mounted to the engine via the PPF torque is transferred directly to it, rather than through the engine mounts -> then through the chassis -> then through the diff mounts.
The Haynes can make do without the PPF as it's going to be pretty blooming responsive anyway weighing half what the MX5 does!

Plus not using it means less weight, and more bits to sell on ebay :)

[CTWV50]

Yes I can see the logic, great thread this really useful. Thanks for getting me part numbers Andrew. :)

[CTWV50]

Just been reading a book about the mx5's development never knew they but so much effort into these cars, really quite impressed! Should be fantastic in the roadster chassis. Has anyone completed an mx5 roadster?

[minicountryman1961]

Just been reading a book about the mx5's development never knew they but so much effort into these cars, really quite impressed! Should be fantastic in the roadster chassis. Has anyone completed an mx5 roadster?


Ron Champion licensed the Locost to Champion Motors in the USA. They then developed a Locost chassis for a MX5 donor, sold a bunch of chassis. The Build a Cheap Sportscar book was about assembling one. Tanner spent most of the book complaining about it not being perfect.
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Cheap-Sports-Motorbooks-Workshop/dp/0760322872/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1301590284&sr=8-1

Westfield are making a model for the MX5 now. Flying Miata in the USA have a build diary about putting one together.
http://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/Torgan/index.php

MX5 based cars are a better choice for the USA because we never had many Cortinas here, and very few Sierras (Merkur XR4ti). Unfortunately there are no prebuilt chassis or chassis plans available for us at this time.

[CTWV50]

Thanks minicountryman great info and thanks for the links I think they got the pricing wrong though!!:D


Available from these sellers.


2 new from $211.97 9 used from $175.42

[minicountryman1961]

Thanks minicountryman great info and thanks for the links I think they got the pricing wrong though!!:D

OMG, it has gone out of print! I hadn't noticed. It ain't worth that much, it doesn't even include chassis drawings. It is a book about building a kit with a chassis from a company that is out of business!

The Gibb's book is actually useful.

[minicountryman1961]

This WayBackMachine link may work to the Old Champion Motors site

http://web.archive.org/web/20050323024746/http://www.championmotorcars.com/

[spud69]

Anybody got any tips for Google Sketchup, apart from pay hundreds for a proper 3D cad package......:(

All is ready with the chassis and components just spent the last few nights trying to cad it all up and although i used to be a dab hand with basic cad and sketchup i just cant get it done (i will though). I know Chris used sketchup for all the schematics and diagrams in the book so just want to keep it as similar as possible for other builders.

Few more sleepless nights and it will be done........Andrew

[CTWV50]

Anybody got any tips for Google Sketchup, apart from pay hundreds for a proper 3D cad package......:(

All is ready with the chassis and components just spent the last few nights trying to cad it all up and although i used to be a dab hand with basic cad and sketchup i just cant get it done (i will though). I know Chris used sketchup for all the schematics and diagrams in the book so just want to keep it as similar as possible for other builders.

Few more sleepless nights and it will be done........Andrew

Can't wait, visited a local steel fabricators we do some work for this morning, he was very helpful and is letting me use some of the fabrication equipment for bending and cutting, and will be supplying the steel for my build.

[spud69]

Hi All,

Hope you all enjoyed the fantastic weekend weather, had a great blast out yesterday, 150 mile in glorious sunshine and some great roads. Really makes you remember what its all about......:)

Got the Mx-5 chassis all rolling now with engine and gearbox all in to. Will be making a big effort to get it all cadded up this week with the build guide put together.

Latest Pics below:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/sets/72157625932340212/with/5442665532/

Regards.....Andrew

[CTWV50]

My build table is ready and waiting!:D Perfect Timing I'd say.

[vmax1974]

egarly awated after this morning :)

[spud69]

Afternoon All,

Just to let people know, there have been some pretty major developments recently with the conversion of the roadster to Mx-5 as donor. This will benefit the Haynes Roadster community massively but will take a little time to come to fruition. As a result of this the build guide for the Mx-5 conversion will be delayed a bit, but shouldn't take too long.

Exciting Times.........Andrew :)

[CTWV50]

I can't stop looking through these images....

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5309/5606879222_7e50abeb55_b.jpg

[skov]

I can't stop looking through these images....


You'll go blind if you're not careful

[BORNXenon]

Exciting aren't they!
I have mixed feelings about the MX-5 build though. Problem is, I had planned on using my tuned 2ltr Ecotec out of my Vectra (once the IVA is out of the way obviously) but now I'm 99.9% sure I want to go the MX-5 route which means I'll have a spare engine knocking about that has less potential and will be less reliable than the Jap lump.

[CTWV50]

You'll go blind if you're not careful:cool:


How are you getting on with yours?

[CTWV50]

Exciting aren't they!
I have mixed feelings about the MX-5 build though. Problem is, I had planned on using my tuned 2ltr Ecotec out of my Vectra (once the IVA is out of the way obviously) but now I'm 99.9% sure I want to go the MX-5 route which means I'll have a spare engine knocking about that has less potential and will be less reliable than the Jap lump.

They are very good engines, I went out for a spin in my donor when suddenly we coasted to a stop with steam from the bonnet and no ignition.....:(

Turns out the auxillary belt had gone AWOL! I think I smelt it shredding and the battery negative terminal had come loose! New belt fitted and the engine was fine, non the worse for it's abuse!

My friend works for a mazda dealer as a mechanic and he said to me when I asked if he could get me a belt "Stop trying to break the unbreakable car!" :D

[BORNXenon]

They are very good engines, I went out for a spin in my donor when suddenly we coasted to a stop with steam from the bonnet and no ignition.....:(

Turns out the auxillary belt had gone AWOL! I think I smelt it shredding and the battery negative terminal had come loose! New belt fitted and the engine was fine, non the worse for it's abuse!

My friend works for a mazda dealer as a mechanic and he said to me when I asked if he could get me a belt "Stop trying to break the unbreakable car!" :D

I so need an unbreakable car!! :D
From the (very) limited amount of research I have done on the Mazda lump, I believe you can just bolt on a turbo, or supercharger with very little other work being needed.
Obviously a remap or standalone ECU would benefit that situation massively, but when you consider other engines need the compression lowering and uprated internals, etc, to accomplish the same thing, the little Mazda lump starts to look very appealing.

[CTWV50]

I so need an unbreakable car!! :D
From the (very) limited amount of research I have done on the Mazda lump, I believe you can just bolt on a turbo, or supercharger with very little other work being needed.
Obviously a remap or standalone ECU would benefit that situation massively, but when you consider other engines need the compression lowering and uprated internals, etc, to accomplish the same thing, the little Mazda lump starts to look very appealing.


Well exactly! Apparently the standard internals can deal with 250bhp and the gearbox can cope with that too. Although the open/viscous diff may not. Being a uk build too with the steering clutch and brake hydraulics on the right you have a big empty space on the exhaust side of the engine! Intercooler might be a bit more of a challenge though!:rolleyes:

[BORNXenon]

Intercooler might be a bit more of a challenge though!:rolleyes:

You could probably get away without one if you don't go daft on the boost, however I wouldn't like to try it. :)

[skov]

:cool:


How are you getting on with yours?

Very slowly. Starting to feel like the whole world is conspiring against my build at the moment!

[CTWV50]

Very slowly. Starting to feel like the whole world is conspiring against my build at the moment!

Good things come to those who wait! :D

[cornishmaid]

Good things come to those who wait! :D

And even better things for those with extreme patience and attention to detail:)

[CTWV50]

Ok Andy two more questions, can the original Mazda 14" wheels be used with the suspension and steering set up, and can you use the Mazda steering column with the escort rack?

[spud69]

Ok Andy two more questions, can the original Mazda 14" wheels be used with the suspension and steering set up, and can you use the Mazda steering column with the escort rack?

Yes, the roadster uses the original mx5 uprights front and rear so the original 14" wheels can be used. Also the original column can be used but needs a few mods with the rack extending and and a new mounting bearing used along with the escort rack.

Andrew

[cornishmaid]

I'm eager and curious to see when the Saturn Mx5 will be ready as would like to see if we came to the same conclusions with certain aspects of the suspension.;)

[CTWV50]

Yes, the roadster uses the original mx5 uprights front and rear so the original 14" wheels can be used. Also the original column can be used but needs a few mods with the rack extending and and a new mounting bearing used along with the escort rack.

Andrew

Ahh thanks Andrew. So the escort rack is used and extended in the normal way but the steering column need modifying and a bearing mount used somewhere in it's length.

[cornishmaid]

We found it to be rather more involved than going down the Sierra route, wasn't as simple as it first looked. But saying that it was well worth all the hard work.

[spud69]

I'm eager and curious to see when the Saturn Mx5 will be ready as would like to see if we came to the same conclusions with certain aspects of the suspension.;)

We'll have to discuss our conclusions over a few pints at Stoneleigh CM, i assume you will be there after your query regarding suppliers showing this year.

Regards.....Andrew

[cornishmaid]

We'll have to discuss our conclusions over a few pints at Stoneleigh CM, i assume you will be there after your query regarding suppliers showing this year.

Regards.....Andrew

Should be an informative weekend all round.:)

[cornishmaid]

Apologies to saturn for not meeting up at the show, we never actually managed to get there due to an illness in the family.

How is the Mx5 car coming along as I can't see recent updates?

CM

[MarkB]

Apologies to saturn for not meeting up at the show, we never actually managed to get there due to an illness in the family.

How is the Mx5 car coming along as I can't see recent updates?

CM

Argh that explains why I couldn't find you then, hope all is well now?

[Dave F]

Slightly off topic but I have decided on the MX-Donor but for IVA & Registering sake do I need a UK spec. I don't want the logbook to say import or even turning up for the IVA and they saying "have to be a Q mate" all because I used a Eunos.

[CTWV50]

As long as it's uk registered I think it's ok.

[spud69]

Slightly off topic but I have decided on the MX-Donor but for IVA & Registering sake do I need a UK spec. I don't want the logbook to say import or even turning up for the IVA and they saying "have to be a Q mate" all because I used a Eunos.

As long as its got a UK log book Dave it will be fine.

Andrew

[TQ_uk]

Just looking at the MX5 pics on Saturn's flickr page, and thinking is there any reason why one couldn't/shouldn't mount the coilovers off the lower wishbones (which would need modding from current design I appreciate), thus creating more available storage space in the 'boot'?

I suppose the same could be said for the Sierra version?
Are lower balljoints not designed to take the load, would the spring rate be too high(?) as lower mount would be a fair bit inboard from where it is currently.

Idle thoughts & prepared to be put straight;)

[vmax1974]

Maybe I dont get what your talking about but would the driveshafts not get in the way

[Airhead]

Just looking at the MX5 pics on Saturn's flickr page, and thinking is there any reason why one couldn't/shouldn't mount the coilovers off the lower wishbones (which would need modding from current design I appreciate), thus creating more available storage space in the 'boot'?

I suppose the same could be said for the Sierra version?
Are lower balljoints not designed to take the load, would the spring rate be too high(?) as lower mount would be a fair bit inboard from where it is currently.

Idle thoughts & prepared to be put straight;)


The soon to be released Vodou plans have the shock on the lower wishbone as that was the design used on my prototype car.

Matt

[Dave F]

As long as its got a UK log book Dave it will be fine.

Andrew

Thanks for that. Just looking 3 times daily for a local(ish) donnor.

[skov]

Thanks for that. Just looking 3 times daily for a local(ish) donnor.

I'm sure one will turn up soon enough.
Just to let you know, without trying very hard I got £750 back selling unused parts from my MX5 donor.
If I'd known that before hand I probably would have paid a bit more for my donor and got one in better condition.

[CTWV50]

I've sold about £500 quids worth of bits and paid £550 for my donor. Still got loads of stuff to get rid of but it's mostly stored above the garage up-and-over door and I still haven't stripped the suspension and underneath down. Try and get one with a decent interior and hood these are the most sort after parts I've found.

[spud69]

A valid point TQ just trying to keep the design and geometry on the rear as close as poss to the original until the revised Haynes manual comes out with the Mx-5 as donor. The dampers will be slightly shorter but considering the Sierra dampers are made up with a 1" top hat extension this wont be a problem. The damper travel when in use is no more than 50mm and positioning them where they are gives a more upright damper compensating for the slightly shorter length.

The space between D12 sections is usually used for any boot space so the area for the dampers doesn't really affect boot space available unless you are going to extend to the full width of the car.

Andrew

Just looking at the MX5 pics on Saturn's flickr page, and thinking is there any reason why one couldn't/shouldn't mount the coilovers off the lower wishbones (which would need modding from current design I appreciate), thus creating more available storage space in the 'boot'?

I suppose the same could be said for the Sierra version?
Are lower balljoints not designed to take the load, would the spring rate be too high(?) as lower mount would be a fair bit inboard from where it is currently.

Idle thoughts & prepared to be put straight;)

[MarkB]

Is there a new Haynes book due out then with MX5 Donor kebab revisions?

[spud69]

They've been talking about one for a while now.

[MarkB]

They've been talking about one for a while now.

What about the single seater book then as that's been on the go since 2008:confused:

[spud69]

What about the single seater book then as that's been on the go since 2008:confused:

They've been talking about that one for longer then.....:confused:

[MarkB]

They've been talking about that one for longer then.....:confused:

Perhaps Devon just as dreckly as Cornwall then...:D

[Aussie_Haynes_MX5]

Bought my MX5 donor this morning! Cant wait!

[skov]

Bought my MX5 donor this morning! Cant wait!

Nice one Aussie :cool:

[twinturbo]

When it comes to my next build it will have to BE an MX5.. :)

TT

[vmax1974]

Hey spud is these any more news on the mx5 based car eg when are the parts going to onto your website and where can a get the drawings for my build

[spud69]

Finally we are in a position where we can put out a full build guide and products / components for sale for the Mx-5 based car as donor for the Haynes Roadster. I have put all the relevant products in the stores section of the website:

http://www.saturnsportscars.co.uk/store/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=25

The build guide cannot go on till Monday as the company that maintain the Saturn website are in the middle of moving offices today and will be putting together a full section on the site for the Mx5 based car including the full build guide, background and some extra pics. There will be more developments to go up on the website in a week or two, cant say what yet but we've been waiting for these before putting out Mx5 plans but cant wait any longer now.

If anybody would like a pdf of the build guide in the meantime i can try e-mailing a copy but my e-mail server doesn't like sending big files. Give me a shout via andrew@saturnsportscars.co.uk and i'll keep an eye on that over the weekend.

Have a good weekend..........Andrew

[twinturbo]

Super :)

TT

[CTWV50]

Marvellous, Well done Andrew!:cool:

[Davidbolam]

Ive just put my order in with Andy at Saturn.. Now looking forward to my build. I have lots of shiny mx5 bits to bolt to it!!!

[Bonzo]

Finally we are in a position where we can put out a full build guide and products / components for sale for the Mx-5 based car as donor for the Haynes Roadster. I have put all the relevant products in the stores section of the website:

http://www.saturnsportscars.co.uk/store/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=25

The build guide cannot go on till Monday as the company that maintain the Saturn website are in the middle of moving offices today and will be putting together a full section on the site for the Mx5 based car including the full build guide, background and some extra pics. There will be more developments to go up on the website in a week or two, cant say what yet but we've been waiting for these before putting out Mx5 plans but cant wait any longer now.

If anybody would like a pdf of the build guide in the meantime i can try e-mailing a copy but my e-mail server doesn't like sending big files. Give me a shout via andrew@saturnsportscars.co.uk and i'll keep an eye on that over the weekend.

Have a good weekend..........Andrew



Tis great to see the Saturn shop inventory growing Andy :) :cool:

Can’t have been easy to bring some new & exciting products to the market , I know just how busy you have been.

This all bodes well for the future of the Haynes Roadster

As they say

" The future is bright, the future is Orange " :D :D

[TSM Locost]

MX5 Roadster now available to download.

Well done Andy,

[twinturbo]

That's fab..

I bet when I come to build an MX5 car they will be getting hard to come by LOL

TT

[spud69]

Yes it's all up now thanks for noticing Rob and Mike, there are a load more pics going up there this morning to so i hope that both together they provide help and assistance to builders with the Mx-5 donor and help to give the Haynes Roadster self build a bit of a needed boost. Apologies for being delayed being able to put them up but we are there now. Address below:

http://www.saturnsportscars.co.uk/mx5.php

There are bound to be some alterations / clarifications required if so please feel free to let me know and i'll update the guide, there is more to add to over the coming weeks as i progress our own build.

Anybody else following mine and Anja's fostering progress to would like to know that we got accepted as approved Foster carers in front of the panel, scary stuff, last Thursday, we just need the final papers signing which is happening this Tuesday then i'll have a couple of little helpers running around.......:D

Have a good day.....Andrew

[vmax1974]

Anybody else following mine and Anja's fostering progress to would like to know that we got accepted as approved Foster carers in front of the panel, scary stuff, last Thursday, we just need the final papers signing which is happening this Tuesday then i'll have a couple of little helpers running around.......:D

Have a good day.....Andrew

oh cool a few child slaves to help out just what is needed

[K4KEV]

Nice one Andy.....congrats on two counts....time will now be precious.:D :D

[robo]

Congratulations Andy, Welcome to the real world !!!!!!!:D

[spud69]

Congratulations Andy, Welcome to the real world !!!!!!!:D

Cheers Robo,

I've already got 2 of my own to look after, daughter 18 (been through the hard times) and son 11 (hard times a coming) but they are both doing extremely well at college and school. If we can give similar results of other kids at more of a disadvantage we'll be well chuffed and will be worth all the effort.

Thanks Again.....Andrew

[flyerncle]

Well done Andy,be afraid........:eek:

[ayjay]

Can we expect plans for a mini moto type roadster:D

[d4mo]

Fantastic, just what i've been waiting for, time to get more of the mx5 bits sold so i can get my order placed for the chassis pack!

[leroybrown911]

Nice one Andy! How do you find the time! :eek:

[spud69]

Cheers Leroy,

I've got a skivvy here now doing all the non-thinking graft (could job he doesn't use the computer). There's an awful lot to do Leroy but it can be very satisfying to, got a car to get ready for IVA next Thursday so that should make it all worthwhile to. Plus another exciting project i cant wait to get started.

Thanks....Andrew

[les g]

well congratulations Spud and anja
Lins works in cams now she gave up acute a little while ago ..
she thinks its the most rewarding thing she has ever done
i hope all goes well for you
cheers les g
Ps well done on the mx5 build
that is looking cute

[spud69]

well congratulations Spud and anja
Lins works in cams now she gave up acute a little while ago ..
she thinks its the most rewarding thing she has ever done
i hope all goes well for you
cheers les g
Ps well done on the mx5 build
that is looking cute

Thanks Les, we got the final signing off yesterday so just waiting for the phonecall now, we both have the right attitude and although we don't know exactly what to expect i'm sure we will find it most rewarding to. My philosophy for the last 10 years once i got out of the rat race was "you dont know if you dont try" and "you work to live not live to work" - probably why i'm doing this and Saturn to.

Cheers Les......Andrew

[CTWV50]

Hi Andrew,

Got a quick question, I understand the front uprights do not need reaming and we aren't using maxi ball joints but what are we using for the front hub upper ball joint?

Cheers

Chris

[spud69]

Sorry Chris i missed this one, the transit drag link fits in the taper of the mx5 upright just fine.

Andrew

[Blacktop]

Hi Andrew,

In the build guide it states utilising a Mk1 MX5 as a donor.
Is the Mk2 MX5 also suitable or are there any reasons/differences why it shouldn't be used?

[MarkB]

Vodou chassis/suspension design does and includes ALL dimensions required to allow it to be made.

[les g]

well f..k me
where has my post gone.
have the delete fairy,s been at work again
cheers les g

[rdodger]

Hi All

First post.

I am the owner of a mk2 Supercharged MX5 215 bhp (250 on the way!) and am very interested in building one of these.

I have a few questions.

Will Saturn be at Stafford at the weekend?

Will you be able to use the camber adjusters from the likes of Rally Design front and rear?

Will the MK2 be an option as a donor?

What is the wheel base/ track of the car?

What is the weight of the finished car?

Thanks

Rog

[spud69]

Hi All

First post.

I am the owner of a mk2 Supercharged MX5 215 bhp (250 on the way!) and am very interested in building one of these.

I have a few questions.

Will Saturn be at Stafford at the weekend?

Will you be able to use the camber adjusters from the likes of Rally Design front and rear?

Will the MK2 be an option as a donor?

What is the wheel base/ track of the car?

What is the weight of the finished car?

Thanks

Rog

Hi Rog,

Afraid we wont be at the Stafford show, already got other commitments which have to me met.

The front wishbones could be drilled out to take the rally design adjusters but the way the rear wishbones are they will not be able to take the adjusters but can still be adjusted manually for camber.

Not sure about the Mk2 car as a donor, i would have thought that the various parts of the drivetrain have remained unchanged but i'm pretty sure that the uprights have changed.

The track width remains the same as the Mk1 with the wheelbase being similar. The overall car is shorter though due to the reduced bonnet / nose length of the roadster to the mx5. The overall weight should be about 560kg

AndyH

[rdodger]

Thanks for the quick reply.

How much have you taken out of the propshaft?

Cheers

[Talonmotorsport]

You need to take about this much out of the propshaft...


For those of you reading this on a laptop or small monitor I'm holding my hands 'that far' apart so you won't be able to see them......sorry could'nt resist.

The Vodou wishbones can be made to take the rally design camber adjusters although I'd prefer to make them from steel rather than ali.

[spud69]

Thanks for the quick reply.

How much have you taken out of the propshaft?

Cheers

230mm Rog, must make sure it's re-balanced professionally though.

[PorkChop]

230mm Rog, must make sure it's re-balanced professionally though.

Or do what I plan to do and get a new shaft made up :)

[robo]

Got the chance to look round an mx5 the other day. I can now see the attraction, turning a car you would not be seen dead in to one you would.

Bob:)

[skov]

Got the chance to look round an mx5 the other day. I can now see the attraction, turning a car you would not be seen dead in to one you would.

Bob:)

Oi - My last car was an MX5!
I'd challenge you to a fight, but my wrists are feeling a bit limp today, and I've got to cut someone's hair later :D

[CTWV50]

Oi - My last car was an MX5!
I'd challenge you to a fight, but my wrists are feeling a bit limp today, and I've got to cut someone's hair later :D

Ahaha I did think John won't like that. I'm sure you only ever drove it with the roof up!:D

[skov]

Ahaha I did think John won't like that. I'm sure you only ever drove it with the roof up!

No, no, no - I only ever drove it with the roof DOWN.
I hated driving it with the roof up, it was really claustrophobic, and felt like I was in a small tent!
I'd get some funny looks when it was raining mind :)

[Davidbolam]

huge thanks to andy from Saturn for reaming the my uprights out to the correct taper today. Thanks again!!

[spud69]

Finally got the latest revision of the build guide for the Mx-5 up on the website for download. Sent it off to be put on but the lad who deals with Saturns website was on hols and i forgot to chase it up.......:confused:

It now contains additional guidance for mounting lower rubber mount on diff and gearbox. The threads on the diff and gearbox are the same as the engine mounts so decided to reuse these. It also includes guidance for the Handbrake mounting and cabling, works similar to the sierra just with different brackets.

http://www.saturnsportscars.co.uk/mx5.php

It also includes a rudimentary cutting list for the chassis and cutting checklist if it helps.

Will be putting up the pedal box next to re-use the mx-5 master cylinder for the brakes and hydraulic clutch.

Just to try and let everyone know, it's time to have a couple of days away (make the most of this lovely sun) so the unit will be locked up tomorrow and Saturday - back to normal on Monday.

Enjoy the Sun.......AndyH :cool:

[vmax1974]

Thats great news andy

Enjoy your well earned days off

[HandyAndy]

Enjoy your well earned time off Andy, I know you,ve been very busy lately , all be worth it tho :cool:

I like the latest photos you,ve put up on your flicker page :cool: , a major milestone indeed .

Might pop over on monday, put the kettle on :)

cheers
andy

[skov]

I like the latest photos you,ve put up on your flicker page :cool: , a major milestone indeed .



I'm liking the videos too :cool:

[HandyAndy]

I'm liking the videos too :cool:

Oh wow, I didn,t realise they were video,s too :o

Great to see it moving under its own power :cool:

cheers
andy

[spud69]

Version 3 of the Mx-5 build guide is now up on the website ready for download. It includes pedal box, air box, exhaust, brake lines. Didn't get time to put the steering column arrangement in but it's quite straight forward.

http://www.saturnsportscars.co.uk/mx5.php

Have a good weekend.......AndyH

Just realised putting the front wheels on that the brake pipes i have named in the guide will not work (foul the rim of the wheel) they need matching banjo couplings on the caliper end - i'll find out which and update it

[Johno]

Hi Andy,
Nice job on new build guide, I was glad to see my pedal box was similar to yours:D . Not had time to sort brake and clutch yet but was working along similar lines as you.
Glad to know you are back on track with MX5 build will help heaps.

Thanks Johno

[Bonzo]

Pleased to read that you have found some time to add to the MX5 build guide Andy :cool:

I am sure it will help a lot of builders using the MX5 as a donor :)

[spud69]

Cheers Ronnie, just received word that K4Kev has the fuel tank ready so should have it's first test drive under its own power come the weekend - time to get the cones out again.......:)

Had to have some more fun again yesterday though, took out the rolling chassis for the Mx5 build for a tour round the estate and, considering it was being towed, was most pleased with the way the car felt - plenty of front end grip, steering felt good and well balanced, good in sharp changes of direction. Got upto 50mph and everything felt smooth. Ride height a bit high, need to get the correct damper and spring lengths. Had to put a video up on youtube again......

http://youtu.be/wN0iU-vn5CQ

AndyH

[Bonzo]

Just had a view of that video Andy, cracking stuff mate :)

I am no expert but it looks as if you have nailed that front steering geometry, those front wheels look as if they are well planted :)

Very much looking forward to seeing the Saturn MX5 Roadster driving under its own power.

All of that hard graft is coming together very nicely.

Not too late for me to have a change of build plan yet, I am very much liking what I see :o:o

[spud69]

Just had a view of that video Andy, cracking stuff mate :)

I am no expert but it looks as if you have nailed that front steering geometry, those front wheels look as if they are well planted :)

Very much looking forward to seeing the Saturn MX5 Roadster driving under its own power.

All of that hard graft is coming together very nicely.

Not too late for me to have a change of build plan yet, I am very much liking what I see :o:o

Thanks Ronnie, that's always nice to hear. I know the fact that it is being towed will help the front to change direction, we were even coming off the throttle in the car and letting the tow roper slacken and it felt the same, but for its first proper go in anger it felt right. It was even self centering enough for IVA man.

I'm pleased......AndyH

[shh120m]

thats a good looking guy driving it:D
Cones arived in the post this morning andy

[spud69]

Let's go for it this weekend for its first proper blast then.......:D

Which guy, must mean the one driving the Citroen doing the towing.

[Bonzo]

driving the Citroen doing the towing.




Ahhhhh, that will explain the smoke & there was me thinking it was a foggy day :D :D

Sorry Andy, couldn't resist :o

[Johno]

Looks like fun there Andy,
So who was driving then?.....reminds me of that film something errrrrr ........Miss Daisy...ONLY 50mph come on man whats up with yer. :D
I can only say "Dam glad to be building one of those" Come on Bonzo cross over and step into the light its not too late.::cool:
Well its looking good and guess we lost the race in the end to a better man....Well done....
Sorry but you do know I am going to keep pestering you for info don't you till the end...LOL...:eek:

Keep up the good work and thanks for all your help......Johno, Tony, Simon, Luke, Martin.

[Davidbolam]

that looks like fun!!

Spud, is there any chance you can pop a photo or 2 of the sterring column onto flickr

thanks - good luck for getting it moving under its own power at the weekend

David

[spud69]

that looks like fun!!

Spud, is there any chance you can pop a photo or 2 of the sterring column onto flickr

thanks - good luck for getting it moving under its own power at the weekend

David

Hi David,

I've added 5 pics David:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/6383286711/in/set-72157625932340212

AndyH

[Bonzo]

Come on Bonzo cross over and step into the light its not too late.::cool:



That gave me a weird vision :o

Spud, standing in front of me dressed as Darth Vader saying " Know this, I am your father " :D :D

[spud69]

That gave me a weird vision :o

Spud, standing in front of me dressed as Darth Vader saying " Know this, I am your father " :D :D

Has somebody been showing you the pictures Ronnie........:o

[Bonzo]

Has somebody been showing you the pictures Ronnie........:o



I still have an image of those Saturn uniforms burned in to my retinas.

Man-Kini's I seem to recall :eek: :D :D

[Davidbolam]

thanks for posting the pictures Andy

For the front caliper did you put a banjo on the end of the brake pipe to make it fit or have you replaced it with a different part?


David

[spud69]

thanks for posting the pictures Andy

For the front caliper did you put a banjo on the end of the brake pipe to make it fit or have you replaced it with a different part?


David

The front and rear flexis need changing for banjo ends on the callipers, haven't had a chance to find the right ones yet but will post the part numbers when i do.

Cheers....AndyH

[spud69]

Morning,

We now have a very nice 8 gallon fuel tank supplied by K4Kev. The tank accepts the mx5 fuel sender with a minor mod to the float and sensor, turning it 90 degrees. The float has also been shortened slightly so that when it reads empty there is still a gallon on the tank, just personal choice. I have put up some pics on Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saturnsportscars/6388380199/in/set-72157625932340212


The item is now for sale on the saturn website.

Cheers....AndyH

[shh120m]

looking very nice:cool:

[mark]

Looks good Andy, have you tried a diffuser under that tank?

The underside of my tank is similar and my diffuser only just fit, probably ok but thought i would mention it incase it needs packing up a little before you plum it all in, get the rear tub on, offer up the diffuser and then think..... oh bo#*~cks!

[spud69]

Thanks Mark, but yes we've tried one and it's okay. Started making the bodywork for it and its Golden Yellow and black wings with a black stripe - codenamed the "BumbleBee"......:cool:

Thanks.....AndyH