ok so lets have the truth

[les g]

As above really
been at work all day so no access to a puta
get home to find Fabbyglass ranting on lcb
apparently he has been banned from the Haynes Forum.....
by a moderator who uses this forum to promote sales of his chassis kits
this seems very strange
is this because of the rumours , that Fabby was going back into selling bodywork and chassis's kits again.
is this too prevent him entering into the market again........
can we have the truth published please
cheers les g

[gingea1pom]

The three MODS on here Ash, Andy and myself can not ban someone, other than that I have no idea.

Cheers Ginge

[flyerncle]

It all seems to have gotten twisted from here to LCB and back again.
As Ginge says I would have thought only the site owners Haynes could block an IP and stop someone posting.

He (Handy Andy )has been blasted before for things he had allegedly done and knowing him as I do there is no malice in the man infact the total opposite and many will agree he has bent over backwards for many and the fact that he sells chassis packs should have no bearing on his forum membership as others sell their goods on here too.

If Fabby decides to make and sell parts good luck to him and if people found his jokes offensive then that is a personal choice and there is not a place for ofensive material here,near the nuckle yes offensive to me No.

[AshG]

As ginge said we cant ban people. we can only issue yellow cards and delete posts that's all we have the power to do. to this date there is only one person to my knowledge that has got a yellow card and it was after several nicely worded pm's asking them to calm it down a bit.

What people seem to forget is that this isnt just any old forum. This is the HAYNES forum! its not some chap in his back bedroom with a server, this is HAYNES the world wide publishing company! they are not going to tolerate fowl language, distasteful jokes, racism, or petty rows between members and anything of this nature will be deleted as it reflects on their business allowing it to happen.

the purpose of this forum is to discuss a book they sell and the efforts of the people using the book. its an open forum people are free to do what they like with their own car, if someone wants to change the design to suite their own needs that is also fine any improvements they discover would be more than welcome, the car has to evolve its the nature of them. if anyone thinks they can do better get your finger out do the work and post it up rather than just speculating, we would all love to see.

With regards to fabby. his jokes have caused no end of complaints from fellow forum members, that is the only reason they ever get removed. one particular joke prompted 7 people to use the report a post feature in less than an 10mins. I didnt even delete it i just removed the words that caused offence and substituted them for perfectly suitable alternatives that still allowed the joke to be told.

Until les mentioned about fabby starting up shop again in this post none of us mods had any idea. All i can say is go for it fabby you have been in the kit car game since the beginning of time and i know, you know your bananas. you were missed when you quit the business and im sure people would welcome your return if that's what you chose to do.

As for handy andy. he only took on cutting the chassis packs because armoto quit. the steel costs him more than half the price of the kit he sells. it takes him two days to cut out a kit in his spare time and for that he makes around £90. ask your self this? would you work for £45 a day? i very much doubt it. andy is one of the nicest people i have ever known and he doesn't deserve to get flamed for making a bit of beer/car building money in exchange for all the hours he puts in helping others. the guy lent me his steering wheel and scuttle covers for my iva, without even knowing me, i proceeded to crack his scuttle cover and brake the horn on his steering wheel and he still forgave me.

Come on guys lets stop all this silliness and put the time into something productive like building our cars.

[ayjay]

Spot on Ash.Well said!

There are far more important things in the world to get upset or angry about anyway. Keep things in perspective ----we're building cars!:o

[wylliezx9r]

I totally agree with Ash, the primary purpose of the forum is for fellow builders to help one other with the building of their cars. The world we live in now is very different to 10 years ago ( 2 broadcasters get sacked for criticising a lines woman off air ).

A multinational company like Haynes are never going to allow anything that may be offensive to be broadcasted on they're site. Some may call it political correctness but this is the world we live in.

Handy Andy has been the first to answer many questions that i have posted, his sales seem to be based on word of mouth and a good reputation not from him blowing his own trumpet either.

[deezee]

That's very well put Ash. I for one would like to echo how helpful HandyAndy has been to me, a long with Saturn Sports Cars. This is why I posted on lcb to defend those guys. I just hope what fabbyglass posted on lcb hasn't put people off dealing with the andys. The post by ash really deals with / balances out the claims by fabbyglass.

[AshG]

Also forgot to say if hanyes are willing to lift the ban fabby is more than welcome

[jerkins]

I'm really glad that this hasn't descended into a "my forum is better than your forum" squabble - on both sides of the fence. Most people seem to be keeping level-headed about this, in both forums.

We've managed to get along together for quite a while now, and I know that many folk are members of both.

It could have got messy...

[les g]

well thank you for your answers chaps
if you re-read my post it says ......
"this seems very strange"
and just wondered what on earth was going on ?
as it is clear from Fabby,s post ,who he believes banned him
and as for those who jumped up in defence of of HandyAndy....
please rest assured i have no axe to grind......
in fact if you do a search .......
i personally posted pictures of his kit as displayed at Stoneleigh and gave it positive feedback.....
So is is their somthing other than Fabby,s awful sense of humour that got him banned
cheers les g

[Airhead]

I think that the issue that people have isn't with the person it is the conflict of interest. Is it appropriate to have a moderator, however nice and helpful, that sells a product so closely associated with the subject of the forum? Furthermore is closely associated with one of the main suppliers of kits and parts?

Perhaps the solution would be, as this forum is run by Haynes, to stop all traders from plying their wares. After all do Haynes know how frequently threads are hijacked by a simple "such and such does that". I thought the idea of the book was to promote the cheap building of a car from scratch using your own inititive? It isn't called "Build your own sprorts car on a budget (apart from the couple of grand you can spend on bits supplied by X)"

Maybe a quick email to Haynes admin would clear that up?

[AshG]

Haynes were well aware of andys situation when he was appointed as a moderator. to ban all traders wouldn't be productive. people are not forced to buy from anyone, its their money and they will do as they wish. I for one like the traders on the forum it builds a good relationship between them and us meaning the products offered are well focused to match builders needs.

[Airhead]

I was merely saying:

A) The conflict of interest (inferred) was the particular issue in this case
B) Perhaps Haynes were unwise choosing a mod with a conflict of interest, however nice (and I for one have benefited from Andys help on more than one occasion for which I am sure he knows he has my thanks)
C) They could stop the infighting in one simple move.

Again I reiterate that the spirit of the book seems to be encouraging us to build our own cars; any fool with enough money can go buy a bolt together Caterham etc. Why do traders need a public forum to sell their goods?

Type MX5 Locost into Google and see how many traders have invested time in SEO; none. Why not? Because they have a captive audience courtesy of Haynes.

[les g]

I really dont understand all this nonsense.......
but if its a conflict of interest that is upsetting things then perhaps for the good of the forum Andy might like to stand down as a moderator....
or perhaps the Traders should refrain from deluging all the posts with
with their adverts......
perhaps there should be a trader specific thread that traders use.....
how would we all feel if Robin Hood or Tiger bombed this forum and every thread now they have ultra low budget kits on the market place.......
imagine ..where does chassis plate 24 go ? answer.i dont know but if you had one of our chassis,s!!!!!
more questions than answers perhaps
but i do think that traders should be allowed to post on here as it is a specific forum..
perhaps its time for a few people too be a bit more subtle
cheers les g

[AshG]

the thing is i dont recall andy ever going on to some ones thread and saying buy my kit, its usually done by people that have purchased a kit from him and are recommending it. to be honest i dont recall any of the traders intentionally trying to push products on people. we get the odd occasional advert started as a new post but its hardly pushed.

at the end of the day its really fantastic that people can build as much or as little of the car as they want to.

think of all the people that have purchased a chassis from talon, a chassis kit from andy, a body kit from fabby/saturn. if these traders had not been about how many people wouldn't be building a car? i want as many people as possible building these cars as they are fantastic, how everyone gets there in the end is irrelivant, they have still built a car at one level or another.

from what i have seen, people will buy what they can afford to and build the things they cant afford to buy off the shelf. i could have gone and built a caterham, i didnt because i wanted to build everything myself. i still got my chassis plates from 3ge, body work from fabby, chassis kit from armoto. being brutally honest without these people and the products they made for me i do wonder if my build would have been successful.

as for the claimed conflict of interest with andy. im not worried, if i was i would have brought it up for discussion a long time ago. there is very rarely a post edited or deleted without the mods talking about what to do first. the exception is something deeply offensive that must be removed immediately. also we can see a history of what each mod has edited/deleted so if there was any foul play from any of the mods all the other mods would know including haynes and chris g.

[trick-kit]

Ashg,

I think the point Airhead is trying to make is that forum members trust the moderators to be impartial, anyone with an vested intrest could be seen as having the potential to guide things in a certain direction.

Coming from an industry where competion between suppliers is so fierce we are not allowed to accept any gifts personnally just in case it is seen as a loyalty towards one particular supplier.

Lets get this straight, I am not questioning handyandys devotion to the roadster or his ability to offer other builders help when they need it, in fact he bends over backwards to do it. But the facts are he is a supplier of parts, no matter how little he makes from it and is strongly linked to one supplier in particular, this could be seen by many to be a conflict of intrests.

My advice for handyandy would be to step down as a moderator, it doesn't stop him being the guy to see for chassis kits or helping so many people on here but would give other suppliers the confidence in the forum (and in Haynes) to actually post on here.

[deezee]

Lets not get ridiculous over this. He's not exactly presiding over £40 million public funds for wind turbines, and owns a wind turbine company. There is NO conflict of interest here. He can provide steelwork for a chassis design, that this forum is here to help people make. There are hundreds of other business throughout the UK that can provide one inch box section, cut to size. People are here to build a car and regardless of design changes, Andy supports it. He is not a designer and owner of the Haynes Roadster. Just such a fan he helps other people out with steelwork.

[twinturbo]

I spent last evening in the garage, apart from sorting out a b unch of stuff from our soon to be sold MK1 golf I also decided to put the diff on the roadster so that I can measure up for the prop. ooooohhhhh.

Prop is going to have to be the last main expenditure for a while, my circumstances change in January and I need to plan for that.

Anyway, so the diff has gone into place nice and easy although the holes in the chassis plate are smaller than them in the diff plates ( don't know if this is right as I can't find my book). I just need to measure up now and decide who to go with.

D&F and NWP get good reports from most.

With all the golf parts going I should have a nice amount of spare space that will also help to keep the garage nice and tidy.

Ooohh also got a RST Exhaust manifold to overcome the issues with the stock 1.8CVH manifold and clearance on the bulkhead.

What's every one else done on their car this week?

TT :)

[flyerncle]

Best delete all of this thread and let Haynes decide and they are impartial as to letting Mark back to the fold.

Personally I think it is unfair to punish the current persons supplying Haynes parts as they have played no part in what ever has been the cause of this thread.

Moderation is required otherwise we would be flooded with undesireable posts and other dross that would offend people no end.

This forum is about building a hand built sports car, lets get on with it and do as has been done before and in the future and help and advise as we all do.

[twinturbo]

And poping out in a little while to try a driveshaft in place :D

All has to come apart once done though for final cleaning and painting:rolleyes:

TT:rolleyes:

[ayjay]

Thats exactly the approach I'm taking . Fit everything up and set up properlly then dismantle and paint the chassis etc

Painted up my hubs and backplates today then got the last bits off the cvh donor Ill be waving goodbye to the shell soon -I remembered to cut the chassis number out of the floor .Im not sure as yet how it will get off the garden --its got no wheels:o At the moment its "parked " in front of the garage doors,when its gone my rolling chassis will seethe light of day. Whats that place that was mentioned for exhaust manifold pipes for cvh

[twinturbo]

Sorry RST is Ford Enthusiast slang for "Escort RS Turbo" .

I have to strip down one of my sierras soon after final fitting up in order to finalise a number of component clean ups.. It's a pain but once you have fitted once fitting again is a lot easier and having to strip off a nicely painted part cos it don't fit is always a pain.

Did not make it to the garage as the guy buying our MK1 Golf did not turn up till 9:10, sadly he liked it and after 13 years our little car has gone to a new owner.

TT

[AshG]

twin i have got the prop off my car that's waiting to be put up for sale. if its the correct length im sure we can agree on a price.

[twinturbo]

ooohhh... How do I measure for you...

I welded the mounts last week so if it's wrong it's wrong :( , Although I guess I can make a little adjustment ;)

TT

[twinturbo]

I would rather line a your pockets :)

TT

[les g]

Shame nobody wants to tell the truth or give a straight answer
cheers les g

[minicountryman1961]

Shame nobody wants to tell the truth or give a straight answer
cheers les g

From a distance it seems clear to me.

Moderators can not ban people. The list owner can.

Flabbygas posted jokes, some were rude and used offensive language. People complained to the list owner. He got banned.

It appears he believes he was banned for other reasons, but the person he thinks was annoyed by his opinions can't ban him, so it would appear he is mistaken.

[ayjay]

From a distance it seems clear to me.

Moderators can not ban people. The list owner can.

Flabbygas posted jokes, some were rude and used offensive language. People complained to the list owner. He got banned.

It appears he believes he was banned for other reasons, but the person he thinks was annoyed by his opinions can't ban him, so it would appear he is mistaken.

FLABBYGAS--Sounds like what you get eating too many beans and drinking cola simultaneously---bit like one of Fabb's jokes(not):D

[CaptainCrash1971]

I was under the impression that this was a grown-up forum for grown-up men (or women) to talk about the car they all love and aim or aspire to build. How come when something like this happens rattles come flying from the pram like nobody's business and a whole war begins. Unfortunately this normally results in HAndy being accused of all sorts of crimes and misdemeanours against the whole oh humanity. Having a tash and beard does not make him Colonel Gadaffi.
This whole episode stinks of sour grapes. If HAndy is on this forum for personal financial gain, then he's doing a p!ss poor job of it, he'd make more money selling Avon. Whatever he does and doesn't sell shouldn't stop him from doing his job as a moderator. And if people can't play by the rules, then they're gonna get banned. Un-PC comments can easily be misconstrued as being bigoted, racist or sexist. It doesn't look good to new forum users, and neither does this kind of in house whining.
Now please in the name of the Haynes Roadster, let's pick up the toys from the pram, pop our dummies back in our mouths and just get on with building flaming hand built sportscars. Rant over x

[CaptainCrash1971]

I've just realised my Colonel Gadaffi comment may be offensive to any Libyans building a Haynes Roadster. I apologise whole heartedly to those people. Just to clear up any misunderstanding, I'm not part of the un-PC brigade, I enjoy jokes as much as anyone, but if I want to read one I go to sickipedia and read some corkers. The difference is I know if I go on there I may see something that may offend me. There's even warnings when I log on.
Do we draw the line when people start posting their own amateur porn videos on here? People log on here to talk cars, not to be offended.

[JakeH]

been stripping and selling the donor, having quite a bit of luck on ebay (first time seller :o ) already made £10 back + lights to someone through gumtree for £20. should make the money i paid back and hopefully a bit more :)

sierra parts anyone? :D

[baz-r]

just stumbled on this by mistake and i must have missed it totaly and i feel i need to add my 20p worth (see even if my point of view gets deleted)

i personaly dont have any faith in the moderation of this forum due to a few reasons that have already been mentioned. yes someone has to do it but that someone should be unbias in every way sorry.

i have had posts deleted in the past that have had no bad words in at all one was some hassle i had with the dvla and a sorn sent recorded delivery that i got fined for and another was for parts up for offer (no price added)

i do know the banned person in question tried sevral times to make a post about a supply/spec of a said part for a roadster not made,designed or supplied by him and it kept been lifted so had to pm me in the end. this give me an opinon of someone pulling strings in the background that i do not feel confortable with.