Ally sump welding quote......

[Eternal]

Right seeing as all my welding gear is packed away atm i went looking for a quote to get my ally sump holes welded from where the front drive shaft went through. it involved welding up two 32mm holes.

"Hi Alex, sorry for taking so long in getting back to you. From the pictures and from your description the best way would be for me to cut to aluminium alloy plugs and to let them into the holes and to fully weld them both sides. I would estimate about a mornings work + welding consumables, you would be looking at a price of £220.00 for the job.
If you would like to have the sump welded I am at home in the mornings most days and around to lunch times during the week. After lunch time I am usually on site at various places and not available. Or you may visit next weekend if you wish. As far as welding the sump time wise I would have it completed within a day or two. Just let us know what time and day.
Many thanks"

Just seems to me that £220 is quite steep what do you lot think? I can get a 2nd hand steel sump for £20 delivered but i like how the ally sump bolts to the gearbox to give extra strength.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7908/img0259z.jpg
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5663/img0261x.jpg

[aerosam]

If you cn weld ally ok, can you not unpack your welding kit and save yourself £220?

A morning's work, say about 4 hours - £55 an hour does seem quite steep yes. Welding consumables really won't be much.

Up to you if you want to fit a steel sump. If it's good enough for the donor.... ?

That ally looks quite thick, would it be possible to drill and tap some blind holes and clamp on a fabricated blanking plate with a rubber gasket behind it? Just an alternative idea.

[Eternal]

Well i have an R-Tech TIG Welder 240V AC/DC 200amp Water Cooled setup but it requires a 16amp plug and wiring >_< so cant use it in this house as its not setup. I guess if i used the low low setting it might not trip the fuses.

[flyerncle]

Electric cooker circuit if you have one is high amp,poss 30 amp.

I have an inverter tig ac/dc plus mma and is 16 amp but as you say on low its ok.

[minicountryman1961]

Just seems to me that £220 is quite steep what do you lot think? I can get a 2nd hand steel sump for £20 delivered but i like how the ally sump bolts to the gearbox to give extra strength.

the steel sump will dent when you hit something, the alloy sump will crack open.

[Eternal]

i think i will buy the steel one anyhow just to compare them. Would also save some weight as well and alot more simple to cut down so it wont hang down as much. I Just think its a shame as the ally one is such a nice bit of kit.

[minicountryman1961]

I Just think its a shame as the ally one is such a nice bit of kit.

no one will ever see your sump unless you are running over them.

[mikemph]

I can do it for £50 plus whatever the postage cost. I will even do a dye test to make sure there are no leaks before returning it to you.

[Eternal]

sweet stuff i will find out how much it will cost to send. Its going to need a hell of a clean as well at some point as its full of ally dust/grit from where i have been chopping lol. Thats a job im not looking forward to do!

[baz-r]

you do the plugs and i could weld it in for you for a fee ;) .
i have my 200a ac/dc tig running of a 16a plug with a 13a adapter i got from toolstation for £5 had it flat out on my tig and fuse held in ok or if your mig is big enough (250a up) and you have the right gas and wire you could mig it (4043 for cast) heat it up will help fore either way
idea if you have a lathe you could could make a bung to sweat in with some bearing retainer if its round and the fit is right it will stay in no worrys
if you have trips in the fuse board changing the class (not rating) of the trip will make it less prone to nusence tripping i think it was c class that was fitted as my 195a mig was knocking the trip out :)

[will_08]

Your right Baz, if its the initial start up (rush current) that is tripping your MCB, putting another type in will help 'B' is the standard domestically, but you can buy 'C's or 'D's of the same current rating of course.

Will

[Eternal]

Well i have all the rods required and also some nice bits of ally that can be made into plugs. I will pop over to toolstation tomorrow and pick one of those adapters up. Will give it a bash myself if i can... not done any ally work yet but need to learn as i have soooooooo much to weld/fab. Sump, cam covers, waterblock, IAC valve adapter, throttle body adapter and a inlet plenum.

One thing i could really do with some help on at some point is the correct settings to use on the R-Tech welder for ally/cast ally.
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/welding_equipment/Tig_Welder/Tig_Welder_R-Tech_Tig201WC is the fella i have atm. Also below is a pic of the front pannel.

[TheArf]

You could always buy a three pin plug to blue plug adaptor from a caravan centre or Argos for around £5 to £6 thats what I did, I doubt if you could but the bits for what they charge

[Tilly819]

hi there

i also have the Rtech 200Amp acdc tig set, it will run on a 13 amp supply providing you dont go much above 150-160 amp welding current

the machine only needs the full 16A when you are welding up at the 170-200Amp range

This is what the R tech Tech guys told me since when i bought mine i did not have a 16A supply but do now.

hope this helps...

also a mornings work for a skilled man allowing for overheads 200 quid is about right, IIRC when i go on site the company i work for charges approximately £500 a day for my time im not trying to brag or anything just put things into perspective.

however i would just get you set out and put a 13amp plug on the end of the wire lol

tilly


EDIT: just noticed you saying you havnt done much ally welding, hope you dont mind me giving you one very important tip, make sure its spotlessly clean and that you remove ALL of the oxide layer in the welding area ally oxide melts at about 3X time temp of ally and if it isnt removed what happens is you arc up and the inside of the metal melts before the outside, the the outside melts and the whole lot just disappears.

tilly

[mikemph]

I can give it a quick once over in the sand blaster, then in the degreasing tank to get it squeeky clean!!!


sweet stuff i will find out how much it will cost to send. Its going to need a hell of a clean as well at some point as its full of ally dust/grit from where i have been chopping lol. Thats a job im not looking forward to do!

[chriseyj]

Hi mikemph how much would you charge to higher my zx9r sump? I've been toying with the idea of using my mig and ally wire but heard its pretty useless. Think an inch is removed from the small area that hangs down and a plate welded over it, plus the sump plug moving to the side. Looks simple, have a pic from locost builders.
Cheers chris

[AshG]

you will only need about 120-130amps to tig that up. i could do it for you if you can wait a few weeks for me to get my work load down a bit. that is an hours work max including making the plugs

[mikemph]

About £50..... like Ash said it about an hours work plus a materials. As above I would use dye penetration to check for leaks before I return it.

If you send me the pics with the sump that would be easiest for me as I will be doing it at work and do have access to forums to look at pics.


Getting pretty good at welding now, been working along side our coded welders at work for the last couple of years, learning from the masters so to speak lol

[mikemph]

Well i have all the rods required and also some nice bits of ally that can be made into plugs. I will pop over to toolstation tomorrow and pick one of those adapters up. Will give it a bash myself if i can... not done any ally work yet but need to learn as i have soooooooo much to weld/fab. Sump, cam covers, waterblock, IAC valve adapter, throttle body adapter and a inlet plenum.

One thing i could really do with some help on at some point is the correct settings to use on the R-Tech welder for ally/cast ally.
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/welding_equipment/Tig_Welder/Tig_Welder_R-Tech_Tig201WC is the fella i have atm. Also below is a pic of the front pannel.

*current depending on thickness but needs to AC
*balance around 50% depends on how clean material is
*You could use pulse to help penetration and keep the heat to min
*slope up and down maybe couple of seconds


It really is a case of learning the basics and learn what work for you

[baz-r]

you will only need about 120-130amps to tig that up. i could do it for you if you can wait a few weeks for me to get my work load down a bit. that is an hours work max including making the plugs

maybe if its preheated my zetec sump i welded at 140-180a 20% cleaning but my tig is fixed freq @ 75Hz (i think)

ac tig settings are quiet simple and you have to bare in mind the propertys of ally it melts at a lower temp but conducts heat realy well and forms an oxide layer on the serface in air but if yor weld pool runs out of all oxygen you get a thing called arc flutter (moving the arc will help)

Amps = total power you will need a loads more than dc on steel and also (effected by ballance) the work piece soaks up heat real well on ally so you are loosing power via heat conduction and reversed current
ballance or +/- = this is the amount of ratio between welding (normal) and inverted (cleaning) curent. this is also a % of heat direction too much cleaning and it burns out your tungsten not enough and you will have poor penitration and poor weld pool formation.
another effect this has is it changes the width of the weld pool so more cleaning makes it shallow and wide less deep and narrow.
Freq/Hz = most low end units are fixed but now more common. this will effect the depth/width of the weld pool mainly.

remeber everyone personalises thair own way of setup but a few basics will need to be applyed

high pureity argon is a must (99%) at 10Lpm,large cup , clean area to be welded (avoid grinding or steel contamination) i find stainless wire brushes are good and red scotchbright pads just befor welding, blunt point on a sutable tungsten (i use gold ones for eveything) 2.4 or 3.2 (bigger than dc per amp),
if you have foot control use it its ideal for AC as as everything heats up you can reduce your amps
start with 25-30% cleaning/ballance (showen in all sorts of ways)
60-100Hz freq
pulse off, up and down slope are not too importent
1 sec pre and 2 post gas
2.4mm 4043 filler for most cast allys 5356 for sheet

hope that helps :D

[AshG]

maybe if its preheated my zetec sump i welded at 140-180a 20% cleaning but my tig is fixed freq @ 75Hz (i think)



crumbs thats a lot of current for that. what welder are you using its not a Chinese one is it?

on the sump for my saab engine it was 4mm thick cast and it welded up lovely using around 90-100 amps, can never know exactly as i just give it more pedal if i need it. cast ali is always a strange thing to weld some times it melts like butter and other times it is a pain to get heat into, just depends on the composition.

[RAYLEE29]

Hi, do you actually need to weld the plugs in? you could make the plugs with o ring grooves and a tight clearance fit and use a bolt and washer to hold in or make them top hatted and bolt in.
no welding also means no distortion no grit blasting no chemical cleaning etc
just a plain simple engineering solution.
Ray:)

[baz-r]

thats the settings for pritty much any make or model of tig i would be using ash as long as its square wave form even more for sine wave old tigs.
dont want to be there all day welding the thing ;) or trying to make it hot :D

but yes its defo not made on this side of the world but not even the big names are made anywhere near europe thease days (trust me i have been inside them)
unless your spending real big money or realy know what your buying (ewm would be my choice btw)
i just need somthing that works and does my hobby bits not worth spending more than my build and i dont have 3ph so cheap s/h ac/dc tigs are like flying pigs
god i see sets selling more s/h on ebad than i sold new a couple years ago!

[AshG]

mine is a cemont ac/dc inverter made in italy. but as you said lovely bit of kit the size of a sewing machine with options galore but new they cost more than the car lol.

[Eternal]

Wow thanks for all the advice guys! Started clearing space in the garage and will try and do some test bits on offcuts and see how that goes. If i turn out to be totaly crap will get it sent off to mikemph! :D Yet again thanks a load guys its really great to have the community support.

[baz-r]

mine is a cemont ac/dc inverter made in italy. but as you said lovely bit of kit the size of a sewing machine with options galore but new they cost more than the car lol.

150a one? cemont are simmular as saf/oerlikon made in france units citotig i think it was called
and yes i do think thay cost more than some builds ash
one bit of advise keep the matalic dust well away when it gets in all tigs with hf seem to go wrong for some reason :rolleyes:
whip off the cover and blow it out every once in a while (make sure its been off for a while big caps inside and thay bite)