Bike Shocks?!?!?

[rapidtornado]

Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question but can anyone tell me why a rear adjustable bike shock, 10mm bolt hole, 355mm eye to eye and rated with a 250lb wouldn't work on our cars? they exactly like the gaz ones?

Not that I have some lined up but the range of shock for bikes is immense and I'm sure I could track some down ;)

I'm sure there is a logical reason why not but I would be keen to learn why :o

Cheers
Rapid

[shh120m]

I have an old white power shock from a ktm which is perfect in size and poundage, the only problem is it has an external gas cylinder which fouls the mounting brackets. Bike shocks are usually mega expensive also, i think i paid about 350 quid for that one,, hence why i kept it when i sold my bike.

[loony]

10mm bolt hole, 355mm eye to eye and rated with a 250lb

What bike shock has that dimensions/spec ?

I know that in Poland people using 2003-2004 R6 shocks in theirs Locosts. They prefer R6 rather than R1... because of spring rating.
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/7112/tnimg4809.jpg

I plan to use bike shocks because they are cheaper - about 25GBP each.

[flyerncle]

If they fit no problem and they sometimes have bump and rebound adjustment,the external gas tank ones would suit pushrod suspension.

[rapidtornado]

thanks for the comments guys, I haven't found a bike shock with exact dimensions yet but before I go scouring the web just wanted to know or canvas opinion if it was doeable...

[monsterob]

after seeing this post today i went hunting .... ive bought two honda vtr shocks for the rear of my car and two r1 shocks for the front.

lets hope they fit now lol :D

[shh120m]

do they fit then? and how much?

cheers

nathan

[flyerncle]

Definately an interesting one ,would be interested to see result.

[monsterob]

Hmmm yes and no please bear in mind my car isnt standard already extra length in my wishbones

Firstly ... The firestorm shocks fit nicely on my rear end i will post a picture later but they seem to be very hard and to use with the standard shock absorber mountings the bolt holes / cush tubes in the shocker itself will need to be opened up slightly to allow the use of the standard bolts and some spacers. But they give a nice ride height on the rear just the only suspension i have on the rear is the sidewalls. But a simple change of spring / messing around with the pre loads might work.

On the fronts they fit and are slightly shorter with the weight of my engine the lower wishbones dont sit horizontal but again messing with preload and spring rates may help but ... I think either extending / moving the top shocker mount will allow me to get a decent ride height at the front.

The r1 shocks are approx 12" open
The firestorm ones are 13.5"
I paid £100 for the four plus £20 vat but if they dont work i can exchange them but sadly cant get a refund a little bit of modding i rekon they could work

Ill get some pics up asap

Afterall its worth a go as the rest of my cars been trial and error up to now :-)

[monsterob]

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/crewesmisssilesrob/rearshock.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/crewesmisssilesrob/frontshock.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/crewesmisssilesrob/frontshock1.jpg


not 100% sold with the angles of the rears more work may be required there.

and the front with the car under its own weight i have 5" under the front frame but the wishbones point up towards the wheels, its sagging too much for my liking but moving either the top or lower mount to give me a better position.

its all on a whim at the moment but the whole car was hence startng with an omega

havent modified them yet as at the moment i can sell them on if i decide they are no good

open to suggestions and thoughts and yes thats the mod ive done to use the omega front hubs :D

[monsterob]

hmm no wonder i cant get the rear to move the standard Honda spring is 950lb/in [or 170kg/mm]

and ive got two !!! :eek:

[fluffy]

have you got clear shots of the front uprights? im thinking of using my old omega

[monsterob]

Erm yeah i have it wasnt easy required alot of chopping ill see when i get home if i can find a pic

[loony]

hmm no wonder i cant get the rear to move the standard Honda spring is 950lb/in [or 170kg/mm]

and ive got two !!! :eek:

That's why they use R6 instead of R1 shocks....

[monsterob]

Ive used honda firestorms on the rear hence it not moving as it has two 950 lb springs the r1 shocks on the front are not really man enough ill chuck another piccy up but all that will need changing is the springs

And they didnt have any r6 in the yard and rears needed to be slightly longer than std spec due to my rear end setup

[monsterob]

theres almost no info on the web i can find reguarding the spring rates of the yamaha shocks


rang yamaha today and i think i wrote them down wrong

r1 7.84 n/mm

r6 95.10 n/mm

there seems to big of a distance between them i think i made a boo boo !

research is hard when cradling a 7 week old or busy at work :D

[rapidtornado]

Thanks for the input Rob... certainly food for thought huh!

[monsterob]

yeah plenty for me to go at going to make them work now even if it means minor chassis mod :-)

heres how its currently sitting

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/crewesmisssilesrob/e5e07105.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/crewesmisssilesrob/0857d26a.jpg

as i mentioned its sagging alot but i think it also has something to do with the tyre profile think they are a 205 60 / 65 15 profile i have the choice of modding the bottom mount or top mount on the chassis not sure which would be best or i also had the idea of making a ride height adjuster style thingy ma bob in place of one of the above similar to the classic mini setup ?? just batting an idea about ?

i will have to buy new springs but the whole lot will come in at under half the £400 for gaz shocks

[monsterob]

mmm ive been out again ................ how much travel does the rear suspension need ? roughly ?

[blownmiata91]

I'm going to use Yamaha R6 shocks. I bought them on ebay for less than $200 US. The spring rate on them is around 500 lbs. Plan is to mount them inboard with rockers so that I can change the leverage to compensate for the spring rate.
Cheers
Doug from Canada

[rapidtornado]

Just done a bit of research on spring rates for R6 shock... they seem like over kill for Haynes:

03/04 R6 shock is 9.85 kg/mm which converts to ~551lbs
05 R6 shock is 10.98 kg/mm which converts to ~614lbs

But you guys say there are people out there with this set up? What's the ride like? .... don't say 'stiff' :p

Rapid

[ayjay]

Is there any info re spec for shocks for some of the lighter bikes ?. Would the spring rates on these be more suitable?

Cheers

Adrian

[monsterob]

Right well maybe the r1 shock is better suited to haynes then i got a figure from yamaha that gave 7.84 n/ mm maybe ill have to do a vid of the travel i think the front with a new mounting point will be fine with my heavy ish 2.0 ecotec and its box.

Only thing with using them then is the length about 12" eye to eye

[skov]

SV650 shocks are cheap, soft, and plentiful.

Probably a bit on the long side though - I just happen to have one sitting under my desk at work and it's 13.5 inches between mounting points.

[rapidtornado]

how would 13.5 be too long if people are buying 13" with 1" extensions?

[ozzy1]

I think it would be ok you might need to move the mounting bracket on the lower wishbone though.

[skov]

how would 13.5 be too long if people are buying 13" with 1" extensions?

My bad. For some reason I had it in my mind that the shock length was supposed to be about 9 or 10 inches :confused:
Must have been thinking of the compressed length...

[monsterob]

The book is only a reccomendation its not gospel. But it does say " other shocks can be used but you may have to move the mounting positions" :D

[loony]

This is Locost mentioned before - with R6 shocks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odehGEqqo1k

But - it has different front suspension (shock angle) so... for Haynes Roadster maybe R6 aren't best choice.

I found spring rates for SV650 on other site:
1999 - 2002 SV650 and SV650S have 510 lbs/inch - 9.129 kg/mm shock spring.
2003 - 2008 SV650 and SV650S have 430 lbs/inch - 7.697 kg/mm shock spring.

[skov]

I found spring rates for SV650 on other site:
1999 - 2002 SV650 and SV650S have 510 lbs/inch - 9.129 kg/mm shock spring.
2003 - 2008 SV650 and SV650S have 430 lbs/inch - 7.697 kg/mm shock spring.

I had a pair of 1999 SV650s a few years back (one for road and one for track :cool: )
I changed the shock on the track one as it was faaar too soft. Can't believe they made it even softer on later bikes!

[rapidtornado]

Decided to go and get a firestorm shock on the back of Rob's comments as the eye to eye measurement ain't bad at 13.5". I'll then take all the dimensions of the spring and see if I can get a replacement with a bit softer rating.

Another area I've been looking at and made some enquires (into a bulk buy) is the ATV/Pit Bike market where I may be able to pick up a 375lb shock 14" eye to eye for less than £60.... still early doors but if anything comes up Ill post it on here

In the meantime I'll wait for the firestorm shock and hopefully get a replacement shock....

Cheers
Rapid

[monsterob]

one thing i noticed in passing at the weekend is the spring on the firestorm shock is wound tighter at the top (i think progressive) so if you were to use an off the shelf replacement spring you will need to make a new platform for the top a simples laser cut 5mm ring ought to do it thus allowing the spring to seat correctly at the top. should then just be able to swap for suitable poundage spring and wind the preload off a bit but it might also give a little more preload ??

the new springs ive located come in at £25 is so about the same as ive paid for the shocker itself even if i have to replace all four springs i think im still under half what it would have cost me for the gaz coilovers

[rapidtornado]

where are you getting the springs?

[monsterob]

you can get them from deemon theives ! (deemon tweeks ) there just std springs you spec the length id etc poundage required. but i will need to get some spacers made up. or you can get them from other internetr sources even ebay

yet to get one off to measure the free length as i dont own motorcycle spring compressors but i know a man who does :D

[js1uk]

Has there been any more progress??????????????

[monsterob]

not from me i built my pedal box this weekend :D



erm ... what were you after knowing ? the firestorm shocks fit but need new lower rated springs

the r1 shocks fit, the springs seem fine just the mounting position on the lower wishbone or the top needs moving in and up or down and out respectivly

[js1uk]

Getting ready to buy, just finding options, just got all the suspension brackets welded on, what a pig. I like the pedalbox, I am using omega HP R28 gearbox with saab turbo engine so some good info.

[monsterob]

im using all omega stuff then going saab turbo after iva (hopefully)

rear diff and driveshaft with adapted hubs im quite proud of and my prop was a bargain as extra info when i researched into the fuel pump, my omega pump should provide enough pressure to fuel the std saab lump too saving some more cash in the long run for me

:D

[rapidtornado]

I got Firestorm shock last week and the length seems OK but the spring is rock solid, way to hard, haven't found a cheap location for sourcing new ones yet.

Thought I'd try some VX220 shocks as well, mate of mine has his in bits at the mo so if he hasn't put it all back together then may try these for size?!?!?

Let you know how I get on. Like Rob been working on other bits of the car for the past week or so

Rapid

[monsterob]

Finally got around to finishing this of today ! Made some new spring seat platforms to go with the 275lb srpings i bought from tweeks. You need to drill the mounting bushes out to take the std roadster suspension bolts the top ones are easy but the bottom ones are toughened ive yet to do this but ive trial fitted to the rear of the car and im happy. Just the fettling of the front r1 shocks which im keeping std ( so far ) and im good. Saved enough cash for ny digital dash by using these shocks

[rpjg1975]

Just wondering? Is it just because of your individual build or is there a reason that firestorm shocks can be used on the front as well as the rear?

Russ

[flyerncle]

There is a company called White Rose Engineering in Blaydon,Tyne and Wear who can make you any spec spring you like,size,load ,dia etc.

[jason 82]

Ok , r6 shocks bought for the front, now need some bike shocks for the rear, my baby is mx5 based, so the rears are quite a bit smaller. I haven't got the dimensions on me right now, but help on the subject if you already have the dimensions would be welcome ! :D

[Stot]

Have you checked the travel on the bike shocks? Superbike monoshocks are generally very hard and have a small amount of travel even compared to the rears on the MX5 build. They use bell cranks/rockers for mechanical advantage hence being harder/shorter stroked, may work ok for an inboard setup.

Cheers
Stot

[jason 82]

Mmmm. I just assumed that they were fine as other people were already using them. The springs are really hard, I think somebody put the poundage around 600lb, which is stupidly stiff. After measuring them eye to eye, they are around the 12 inch mark, so if I used them, I would have to use extention sir move the brackets, then buy softer springs. Since this post, I have swapped them for sv650 items. They are exactly the right legnth, and the springs are allegedly 375lb, which is a lot better. Tomorrow I am going back to my mates bike breakers to hunt for some shorter coilovers for the rear. As soon as I match them, I will post it up here immediately. I hope that this helps !

[davidimurray]

SV650 shocks are rubbish on the bike! Damping is very poor on them which is why they are easy to get hold of - that's why most people swap for GSXR shocks (I have swapped on my SV) or Kwaks. Loads of info on SV650 or SV rider of the equivalents.

Perosnally, I can understand people trying to save money, but I don't think cutting corners on shocks is the right way to go about it. At the end of the day the shocks are what define the ride of your car, they keep the wheels in contact with the ground and set the handling. I have Protech shocks on mine which i think were £380 for a full set. My car rides beautifully - smoother ride than my tin top (MG ZR) and handles like it is on rails.

[flyerncle]

I have to agree,having built one and a half cars and driven three different ones its the setup that makes the difference in the way they feel and drive and the feedback to the driver.

Yes they are expensive (just ordered the rear's at £200 inc) but it will pay dividends in the end.

[snapper]

Early Robin Hood Monocoque cars had Richard Stuart specials, motorbike shocks bought on bulk modified with a spring platform and collar then renamed Zimmeride.
They didn't last long and damping was horrible
You can pickup Gaz shocks at a very reasonable price which improve ride very well

[jason 82]

Anybody want 2 sv650 shocks ?:D :D

[flyerncle]

£400 Inc vat,del and springs etc with 1"in extension on as per the book.

[baz-r]

£400 Inc vat,del and springs etc with 1"in extension on as per the book.

even cheaper if you fit proper full length units not too short ones with an extension to fix the problem of the shock topping out.

rallydesign is most likly to be the cheapest and carry stock on the shelf just make sure you add an extra inch over book to the coil on the rears