My new chassis build

[Northern Joy]

Hey everyone,

My father in-law has an old westfield (been sitting in storage for 10+ years - can see it in the photos) and I am currently stripping it down and re building it up. But when it's finished my brother-in-law will probally take ownership of it. So I came across 'The book' when searching the Haynes website for a Serria manual to strip and rebuild the 2.0L pinto powering the westfield - but decided to scrap the pinto and put in a 2.0L Zetec instead, but thats another story.

well I was set on the idea of building my own car along side my In-laws westfield. I have only been welding for a few months (MIG) but I feel confident enough to have faith in my welding now (been practising like a madman). I have an engineering background but at only 25 years old don't have too much experience so I'm learning as I go along.

I bought the manual and have just started the base board construction from 2440 x 1220 mm 22mm thick MDF supported by a frame of 75x50mm wood. Atm it is resting on a table but before I begin cutting metal I have 100x100mm fence posts to chop up and make proper legs with.

I have a quick question regarding the choice of steel:

1) I am going to order the steel I require within the next few weeks but not sure if there is a standard of steel I require to make the chassis (mild vs meduim to high carbon content). If so what do I have to ask a supplier for? I understand that the main chassis is 25mm box 16 SWG (~1.6mm) but apart from that not a clue. Thanks for any answers and I'm sure I'll have a LOADS more questions to ask.

Here are a few photos of my progress so far. Only started yesterday but worked the whole day to get this far. God this is going to be a long haul hehe. Starting to measure out the jig working to a 0.5mm tolerance:

Oh and I have a habit of completely tiding my garage / tools before I close down for the night, but during work theres tools everywhere though. These photos were shot after I had tidied up. I HATE spending an hour to try and find any tools I require the next day.

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/Northern_Joy/Roadster%20Kit%20Car%20Build/IMG_0544.jpg

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/Northern_Joy/Roadster%20Kit%20Car%20Build/IMG_0546.jpg

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/Northern_Joy/Roadster%20Kit%20Car%20Build/IMG_0547.jpg

I'm sure theres a few questions I still need answering before work starts properly but for now just wanted to say hello to the community.

[SeriesLandy]

Stick your location in your profile here (http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/profile.php?do=editprofile), its near the bottom.

You can either go 1.6mm or 2mm wall with your steel. There is not much overall weight difference.

Good choice of welder, i've got the same one it should be enough to do the whole of the chassisand uprights ect.

I didn't feel that my welding was up to scratch so i ended up buying the wishbones and uprights.

Most importantly have fun, there will be some low points and unless you scavange or get really good bargins it will cost more than you think it will

[michael92]

that is a rather nice work space! and i love the old desk build table! :)

Looking forward to seeing the progress :p

Oh! and welcome! :D

[Talonmotorsport]

When you come to putting your blocks on the table it is best to put them on both sides of the material so it clamps it in place. Material can be either HRS hollow rolled section also known as black, it has rounded corners and is covered in black scale plus side is it's cheap or ERW which comes clean and bright with sharper corners but is alittle more to buy.

[K4KEV]

Welcome Northern Joy ....always great to watch a new build and it looks like you do have a very nice workspace .....wish I could be tidy like that, I'm exactly the opposite.... are you up North?....if you are .....then you are a N.E.R.D.:D (north east roadster dude) and there are now lots of us nerds in the North east especially around Teeside

[Northern Joy]

Stick your location in your profile here (http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/profile.php?do=editprofile), its near the bottom.

You can either go 1.6mm or 2mm wall with your steel. There is not much overall weight difference.

Good choice of welder, i've got the same one it should be enough to do the whole of the chassisand uprights ect.

I didn't feel that my welding was up to scratch so i ended up buying the wishbones and uprights.

Most importantly have fun, there will be some low points and unless you scavange or get really good bargins it will cost more than you think it will

Location updated.

Thanks alot, I selected the welder from reading mig-welding.co.uk and everyone seemed to rate the 160TM highly as a first MIG and so far I am very pleased with it. I am going to do the same buy the wishbones and uprights. No doubt there will be lows (like dropping the pinto on ones foot - THANK god for steel toe caps) but I sure I'll have loads more fun. Once I get the steel I'll up date this thread with my progress.

I should be ok for parts as I know the guy that owns the local garage and they can get anything, I'm not kidding either hehe for very small cost. So hopefully they can help me out.

that is a rather nice work space! and i love the old desk build table!

Looking forward to seeing the progress

Oh! and welcome!

Cheers I'll keep it updated. I should have the steel a week or two.

[Northern Joy]

When you come to putting your blocks on the table it is best to put them on both sides of the material so it clamps it in place. Material can be either HRS hollow rolled section also known as black, it has rounded corners and is covered in black scale plus side is it's cheap or ERW which comes clean and bright with sharper corners but is alittle more to buy.

THAT is perfect, thanks Talon. The stuff I have been using is black and doesn't show the heat affected areas after welding. Is there any advantages to using the ERW stuff? Also as I'm a noobie at welding, is it exactly the same setup to weld both? sorry if this sounds stupid but as far as I'm concerned I want to cover every angle as the chassis is whats keeps me from scraping my ar*e on the road :P hehe and asking and learning from people like you guys who know way more than me is the best way to learn.

[Northern Joy]

Welcome Northern Joy ....always great to watch a new build and it looks like you do have a very nice workspace .....wish I could be tidy like that, I'm exactly the opposite.... are you up North?....if you are .....then you are a N.E.R.D.:D (north east roadster dude) and there are now lots of us nerds in the North east especially around Teeside

Does North east of Scotland count as being a N.E.R.D? hehe do we have a different name or are we honorary members? :D :cool:

Also thanks for the warm welcome :) look forward to pestering everyone for every scrap of info.

[Talonmotorsport]

I would say go for 2mm ERW as it's a nicer material to work with, just remember to grind a 1mm 'weld prep' (45' angle) around the edges. This will aid in the finish weld as it will give you a guide so you can see the joint,give better penetration in to the material and also means there will be some 'meat' left if you grind the weld nearly flush on the out side to fit the panels.

[Northern Joy]

I would say go for 2mm ERW as it's a nicer material to work with, just remember to grind a 1mm 'weld prep' (45' angle) around the edges. This will aid in the finish weld as it will give you a guide so you can see the joint,give better penetration in to the material and also means there will be some 'meat' left if you grind the weld nearly flush on the out side to fit the panels.

That is extremly helpful, thanks alot. I'll get on the blower. Not too worried about the extra wieght and the thicker stuff I would guess is abit easier to weld without blowing holes in it.

[shh120m]

hiya mate, the build table looks good and a lovely clean workshop you have there! Just one suggestion, it may be worthwhile to put some legs at the corners of your build table, mine was sat on an old desk which was fine at first but with the weight of the chassis steel, it warped from back to front, leaving my chassis bent by 10mm over its legnth from front to back:eek: . I only noticed it after fully welding the chassis. I was lucky that it was bent in a straight line and not twisted but all the same, i wouldnt want it to happen to anyone else

cheers nathan

[TheArf]

Welcome to the funny farm, hope you enjoy the build and as you can see you can get answers to most questions on here.

p.s. do you hire yourself out for workshop cleaning

arfon

[HandyAndy]

A warm welcome to the forum .

As you have already seen, lots of helpful friendly members on here, :cool:

:eek: wow...very tidy workshop indeed :cool:

I also noticed the back end of Motor X bike alongside your build table too :cool:

Best wishes for your build, any questions....have a play with the search facility on the forum or if you can,t find the relevant info just ask away.

cheers
andy

[shh120m]

i bet thats a ktm;)

[Northern Joy]

Thanks all for the warm welcome, I am on many forums and this one by far has been the best. I have been Lurking quite away so kinda know some of the names. Well once I have actually finished the build maybe I can give some of my experience back to the future new guys and complete the circle lol.

Nathan: I have a few left over 100x100mm fence posts that I am going to chop up and make the legs tomorrow night.

Your right its a KTM 250 SX (2 Stroke all the way Braaaaapp :cool: ) just recently fully rebuilt. I like tinkering what can I say hehe


Arfon: So far its been really easy to get the answers I'm after. Other forums people mock you because you don't know what they would consider common knowledge.


Andy: Cheers buddy, It's tidy because I have just moved in, but I always tidy my tools away though each night (mostly :p ). I bet over the next year as you see my car progress it will become more and more grubby :(

I finished the marking out of the lower chassis and measured it about 5 times to make sure that it square and the correct lengths and only one diagonal check dimension was 0.5 - 1mm out so well chuffed thus far and now can't wait for the steel to arrive (hopefully before the royal wedding) :)

[Northern Joy]

I would say go for 2mm ERW as it's a nicer material to work with, just remember to grind a 1mm 'weld prep' (45' angle) around the edges. This will aid in the finish weld as it will give you a guide so you can see the joint,give better penetration in to the material and also means there will be some 'meat' left if you grind the weld nearly flush on the out side to fit the panels.

I phoned around all the steel suppliers I could up here but no one seems to stock ERW in anything bigger 12mm square so I ordered 7 lengths of Cold Formed SHS EN 10219:S235JRH. Excuse my complete naivety but is this still ok use as chassis material?

I understand that EN 10219 means its cold formed, S235 is strutural steel and yield but I think its the crappy stuff :( and the JRH is the fracture toughness of the steel. After reading some posts I'm a bit nervous now using this grade of steel in a car I have to (hopefully :P) drive when its built and is going to play havoc in the back of my mind. I spent £90 but if it's considered crap then I'll have no choice but to find somewhere that can deliver ERW further away. Damn impaitence, really need to stop it as I was hell bent on starting the chassis this weekend.

[Talonmotorsport]

There's nothing wrong with using hollow section or black it will be strong enough. Use a fibre/sanding disk in a grinder to remove the scale on the flat faces and put a 45' weld prep on the joints. Treat your self to a tub of Swarfega as you will get very grubby.

[Northern Joy]

There's nothing wrong with using hollow section or black it will be strong enough. Use a fibre/sanding disk in a grinder to remove the scale on the flat faces and put a 45' weld prep on the joints. Treat your self to a tub of Swarfega as you will get very grubby.

Thanks again Talon. Picked up all the steel at lunchtime so I'm ready to rock n roll, but I am traveling down to Edinburgh tomorrow and away most of the weekend so I'll have to wait til next week. Also is there a type of service a company can do to check my welding and test it as I have only been welding for a few months and even though they pass the hammer test and been cut in half (good pen) I would still like someone to varify the welds after the basic chassis has been completed to give me peace of mind. Or do you think I'm been waaaaay over paranoid?

Thanks again and sorry for all the silly questions.

[Talonmotorsport]

If you have some material spare say 2 bits about 200-300mm long prep and weld them in to a T shape. Allow to go cold and abuse it vigorously while clamped in a very good vice bolted to some thing very solid, your aiming for as much leaverage as you can find. If the weld comes away from the material looking like a steel scab it's naff and you need to turn the heat up, if there is enough penetration the material will tear around the welds if at all if using 2mm.

[Northern Joy]

If you have some material spare say 2 bits about 200-300mm long prep and weld them in to a T shape. Allow to go cold and abuse it vigorously while clamped in a very good vice bolted to some thing very solid, your aiming for as much leaverage as you can find. If the weld comes away from the material looking like a steel scab it's naff and you need to turn the heat up, if there is enough penetration the material will tear around the welds if at all if using 2mm.

Once thanks a lot, I just read that in the FAQ he he

Bit of an update:
Started to cut and tack the BR's so I'll let some photos do the talking for once, and I'll be posting loads of photos throughout my build so watch this space.

Notes I made proper legs for the table, I put up a screen in front of the westie as I can't move it and I forgot to put on my steel toe caps tonight and nearly drop a length of steel on them, whoops.

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/Northern_Joy/Roadster%20Kit%20Car%20Build/IMG_0550_Web.jpg

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/Northern_Joy/Roadster%20Kit%20Car%20Build/IMG_0549_Web.jpg

Could not resit the Brum Brum picture:
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/Northern_Joy/Roadster%20Kit%20Car%20Build/IMG_0559_Web.jpg

Finally some test welds (forgot to prep them properly i.e just cut and welded and I'll make re do it with a T section as I think I made the corner to strong with the brace), I smacked the shit (excuse the language) out of it and just bent it a wee bit. Also can you give some tips on my welding just by looking at this picture. If you need other pictures I can get them over the weekend.
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/Northern_Joy/Roadster%20Kit%20Car%20Build/IMG_0557_Web.jpg

So that's it for now. I very nearly bought a flat pack kit but you know what building it myself setting up the saw etc is hard work but when I start to see it come together the feeling is just amazing when I stand back and take a look at it even with how little I have done this evening.

Cheers all for your help and support, gods knows I'll need loads of it.

[TheArf]

Hi NJ nice neat angles what saw are you using, I use a rage3 chopsaw its' just interesting to know what different builders are using

Arfon

p.s. when the angles are to great its' back to the good old fashioned hacksaw

[Northern Joy]

Hi NJ nice neat angles what saw are you using, I use a rage3 chopsaw its' just interesting to know what different builders are using

Arfon

p.s. when the angles are to great its' back to the good old fashioned hacksaw

I'm using the Rage 3 as well :D. I needed it for decking etc and didn't want to buy a proper saw so I just can't it very slowly when cutting and it seems to be very good when I set up the laser properly.

Yup cutting the two BR's with 70degs angle (don;t have manual to hand, cba walking to garage lol) atm with a hacksaw :(

[TheArf]

Provided you clamp the box section down it cuts it fine, I also had bought it to build a deck so makes sense to use it for the build

Arfon

[MikeB]

Your welds look nice and neat.
Its hard to see the heat effected zone on the picture (the oval of discolouration around the weld) It can be used to indicate penetration on some of the welds I would expect to see a little more.
The top left weld has a nice zone showing where as the top right one doesn't have as much and tails off towards the end of the weld.
but I wouldn't worry they look at lot better than others I have seen.

M