side repeaters scuttle mounting ?

[wylliezx9r]

Hi guys,

I've also tried to post this on lcb but it do sent seem to be working..anyway

I've set my heart on mounting my repeaters on the scuttle as I hate the way they look on the front arches. I've heard of people getting failed at ia having them scuttle mounted. I've had a look at the manual and from what my untrained eye can gather the biggest obstical will be the rear arch getting in the way of the angle of visibility. So I've sort of concluded that if I mount the repeaters high enough up on the scuttle I shouldn't have an y problems? Or am I mis interpreting something?

Any ideas/thoughts welcome

Cheers Dan

[John.W]

There must be a set of mirrors out there with e marked indicators fitted that can be seen from the correct angle behind the car???

[deezee]

Didn't ashg pass his IVA with indicators mounted on his scuttle? Check out his photos.

[baz-r]

i think the issue is where/what angles the indicators/repeaters can be seen from
its all in the iva manual

[flyerncle]

Have a look a Renault Modus mirrors,they a fairly large but lie flat on the door and have repeater in them too.

[AshG]

i got through iva with mine on the scuttle. i used Renault laguna clear ones.

[MarkB]

This comes back to the tester at the time as like the MOT it varies even though there is a written set of rules they all seem to read it differently to "Normal folk".....:rolleyes:

[wylliezx9r]

I've also got clear e marked ones as well, all this interpretation stuff is doing my head in. I,m thinking of going down the route of mirrors with in built repeaters. Anybody know of a supplier?

[robo]

I've also got clear e marked ones as well, all this interpretation stuff is doing my head in. I,m thinking of going down the route of mirrors with in built repeaters. Anybody know of a supplier?

Sounds like a good idea to me, two birds and one stone come to mind. A supplier is not the main problem its finding one that looks right on the car, I spotted one on an hgv the other day so that one can be crossed off the list.:rolleyes:

Bob

[ozzy1]

Ebay worth a look.

[wylliezx9r]

Sounds like a good idea to me, two birds and one stone come to mind. A supplier is not the main problem its finding one that looks right on the car, I spotted one on an hgv the other day so that one can be crossed off the list.:rolleyes:

Bob

I was looking at the renault modus ones as suggested by Flyerncle but I think they may be a bit on the bulky side. Need to find a Modus to have a good look, quite a rare car though.

[flyerncle]

Yes they are fairly bulky and probably not to most peoples taste but they did look usable to me and had a sort of usefull look to them as well as having the repeater in them and the fact they bolt flat to the panel looked good too and they would comply with requirement to fold.

[baz-r]

I've also got clear e marked ones as well, all this interpretation stuff is doing my head in. I,m thinking of going down the route of mirrors with in built repeaters. Anybody know of a supplier?

try m&p for aftermarket motorbike mirros

[HandyAndy]

Hi guys,

I've set my heart on mounting my repeaters on the scuttle as I hate the way they look on the front arches.

Any ideas/thoughts welcome

Cheers Dan

Hi Dan,

I too wanted to fit the repeaters on the scuttle & like yourself had heard some 7 style cars were failing IVA having them fitted there.............I also don,t like the look of them fitted on the front cycle wings.

so

I,ve fitted mine on the forward leading edge ( they need to be within 2.6mtrs from the front of the car or there abouts, dims are in the IVA manual )of the rear wings, I admit, this wouldn,t be my first choice of position but it WILL ensure they won,t fail that part of the IVA test.

When i first fitted them I thought they looked a bit naff but now i,m used to them you actually can,t really notice them.

just a thought :)

cheers
andy

[wylliezx9r]

Thanks for that Andy,

I'll have a look at that tomorrow, must admit though im swaying toward having them part of the mirrors. Just gotta find the rite ones, I know somebody has mentioned m and p as a supplier but im pretty sure their place down in Swansea burnt down recently :eek:

[ozzy1]

Most motorcycles have them fitted so maybe worth a scan around a bike shop to see how they would mount and if they tickle your fancy. GSXR ones are not bad.:)

[John.W]

I've been looking for bike mirrors but most of them are not visible from the required rear angle the only ones I have found that look suitable are these


http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230653918069&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

and they look as though the indicators are visible from behind.

[wylliezx9r]

I've been looking for bike mirrors but most of them are not visible
from the required rear angle the only ones I have found that look suitable are these


http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230653918069&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

and they look as though the indicators are visible from behind.

I've been looking as well Jon and have found the same, the indicators on bike mirrors are to replace the stalk type front indicators. I can't open your link for some reason.

Im pretty the saturn demo car has indicator mirrors, maybe I will send spud a message.

[robo]

This one looks quite neat but have not seen one in the flesh yet. Thought that the flat side might cut in flush on the scuttle !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://images.esellerpro.com/2230/I/572/47/MM628_t.jpg

Its off a golf.

Bob

[John.W]

I have just had a look at spuds car on his page and the mirrors have got indicators but they are not visible from the rear and if I remember correctly spud did tell me when he took me for a test drive that they were only for show.

Try this item number on www.ebay.de

230653918069

These look as though they wrap round far enough to be seen from behind.

[wylliezx9r]

I have just had a look at spuds car on his page and the mirrors have got indicators but they are not visible from the rear and if I remember correctly spud did tell me when he took me for a test drive that they were only for show.

Try this item number on www.ebay.de

230653918069

These look as though they wrap round far enough to be seen from behind.

They look good, It would be nice to see them in the flesh, the arms look quite angular I wonder if the would meet iva requirements also is the indicator going to give enough coverage to the rear? I suppose you would never know without fitting them.

[HandyAndy]

I,ve been taking some pics of my car today so thought I,d show what I have done with my side repeaters,

Not saying this is the only solution but as you can see from the pic taken from the rear it clearly shows the side repeater flashing & if you look beyond it you can just about see the scuttle ( tho this pic wasn,t taken with any IVA measurements / guide line rules, just showing it as an example )

cheers
andy

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/handyandy_photo/kitcar150811013.jpg

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/handyandy_photo/kitcar150811014.jpg

[gus]

Andy, same place as i fitted mine and passed IVA, was going to fit on the scuttle but after reading the IVA book did not take the risk.

Gus

[HandyAndy]

Andy, same place as i fitted mine and passed IVA, was going to fit on the scuttle but after reading the IVA book did not take the risk.

Gus

Being totally honest Gus.......it was seeing that you had fitted yours there & passed the IVA test that convinced me to fit them in the same place as yours .
At first I wasn,t keen on them fitted in the rear wings , thats maybe cos it was fresh in my mind when i fitted them, but now I hardly notice them at all.

So, its thanks to Gus :cool:

cheers
andy

[les g]

Hi Handy Andy
just looking at that pic ..
is the reflector vertical
cant tell from the angle of the picture.
its just i know Gus had to put some wedges behind his to get them vertical for iva
just ignore me if i,m being silly
cheers les g

[HandyAndy]

Hi Handy Andy
just looking at that pic ..
is the reflector vertical
cant tell from the angle of the picture.
its just i know Gus had to put some wedges behind his to get them vertical for iva
just ignore me if i,m being silly
cheers les g

Hi Les,

You being silly ??? never :p

With regard the reflector.......no its not vertical, its just stuck onto the rear wing / so follows the angle of the wing.
I must say tho, I wasn,t aware the reflectors need to be vertical for the test:eek:
I thought the only rear light that must be vertical was the fog light.

Or have i missed something in the IVA manual:confused: or is it moving its goal posts again :rolleyes:

cheers
andy

[robo]

I have looked a dozens of mirrors and dont think they are made with the same job in mind, If you look at the iva expected line of sight for the side repeater lamp its supposed to be visible from the rear. All the mirrors I have looked at to date have most of the lenses to the front of the mirror, the bike ones are probably done like that to save having any other repeaters to the front, handy andy has his in the correct place according to the iva. It might be acceptable to put that type of lens on the end of the mirror though !!!!!!!!:confused:

[gus]

Andy, Les is right mine had a wooden wedge behind ,they have to be 90 degrees to the road. (mine fell off that night).

Gus

[HandyAndy]

Andy, Les is right mine had a wooden wedge behind ,they have to be 90 degrees to the road. (mine fell off that night).

Gus


Thanks Gus & Les...:)

I honestly didn,t realise the reflectors had to be vertical....thanks for the "heads up", I,d better find those wedges that fell off your car Gus :D

Just another thing.....do the rear tail lights need to be vertical too ( tail/stop & indicators ?)

I must,ve missed that page in the manual :o

cheers
andy

[deezee]

The IVA manual (version I have is 6.02) was changed in 2009 to describe the rear retro reflectors to
"rear reflectors must face predominately to the rear"

as opposed to the old manual which used to say
"rear reflectors must face squarely to the rear"

You'll be fine just the way they are as there is no requirement to have them square to the rear.

[HandyAndy]

:o The IVA manual (version I have is 6.02) was changed in 2009 to describe the rear retro reflectors to
"rear reflectors must face predominately to the rear"

as opposed to the old manual which used to say
"rear reflectors must face squarely to the rear"

You'll be fine just the way they are as there is no requirement to have them square to the rear.



Thanks Deezee :cool:

I,ve read & re read the IVA manual i have & it still confuses the hell out of me ( not difficult I know :o ) when the info says position this / position that with ref to table/guide 1 etc etc .

Hmmmm an interesting one this, as such a basic thing could lead to a pass or a simple fail:confused:

cheers
andy

[les g]

umm i think we could do with some help and clarity here
as gus,s car has only gone through iva this year.
dont want to start a row but thought a helpful heads up was in order
cheers les g.

[mark]

Mine has been through iva first time with no problems and all my rear lights are vertical but my reflectors were stuck on the bottom lowest corner of the rear arch as close to the rear tub as possible

They arent vertical and the tester payed them a little attention checking the radius on them, nothing mentioned on the angle though, saying that they arent far off vertical anyway

[gus]

The tester checked the radius with his gauge and stood to the side to check the angle.
Gus

[HandyAndy]

I suppose this situation is one of those " testers interpretation of the IVA requirements" can vary between test stations .

I think I,ll remount them as per the IVA manual then I can,t go wrong :)

cheers for the input guys :cool:

cheers
andy

[MarkB]

Vodou panels allow lights to sit at an angle to keep the IVA bods happy,subtle tweekage and angleage here 'n there with extra mango's thrown in for good measure but it was never really an issue with SVA so I never bothered with previous panels.

[wylliezx9r]

Vodou panels allow lights to sit at an angle to keep the IVA bods happy,subtle tweekage and angleage here 'n there with extra mango's thrown in for good measure but it was never really an issue with SVA so I never bothered with previous panels.

When are the panels going to be unveiled Mark ?

[MarkB]

When are the panels going to be unveiled Mark ?

The panels will be unveiled at the Exeter show in October:)

[alga]

I've taken a careful read of IVA requirements. Today I found out that the IVA manual diligently recites the regulation by the UN ECE, Regulation 48, "Installation of lighting and light-signalling devices on motor vehicles", Revision 6, pages 45-48 http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r48r6e.pdf

The sticking point seems to be that the side repeaters should be visible 5° from behind, and 5° below the horizontal.

http://i.imgur.com/ebs6Y.png

When mounted on the scuttle, neither the horizontal angle is satisfied (due to the 10° angle in the chassis), nor the vertical, due to the rear arch obstructing the view. I'm afraid bike mirrors with indicators are irrelevant, too, as the indicators are not facing to the rear.

Mounting them on the rear arch, as shown by HandyAndy above in this topic might be OK, but it's just on the limit of the distance from the front of the vehicle (<= 2.50 m), and might be 1 or 2 cm over, unless specifically checked. The book-design rollbar is more than 10 cm out of bounds.

Front wings are out (IMO), because the requirements are not met when the wheels are turned to the side.

The remaining options I see (besides the front edge of the rear arches) are motorcycle stalk indicators mounted on top of the scuttle, facing sideways, or something integrated into the window frame.

I think the best option is to mount them in the scuttle and hope that the tester takes a blind eye on the angles... If not, mount bike stalks on top of scuttle for a re-test and remove after IVA, reverting to scuttle repeaters, which are conveniently there.

The viewing angles requirement seems so pointless in our case. The small repeater, when looking from the 5° rear, 5° below angle, is obscured by a rear arch, carrying a large rear indicator with the 21W bulb.

[alga]

Here's spud69 explaining the same requirements:

http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6722#post64840

BTW, on my roadster the height difference between the rear wing and the scuttle is ~8 cm, and the distance is ~120 cm. Giving the angle of visibility 3.8° below horizon if the repeater is at the top of the scuttle, less than that if mouned lower down on the sides of the scuttle. 50% of the apparent surface must be visible in order to call it "visible".

[deezee]

I think its worth mentioning that my Haynes Roadster passed the IVA in 2012 with the indicators on the scuttle. So before you all jump into rules and regulations about paperwork guidance about how they don't meet regulations, remember that many have passed with indicators on the scuttle.

[robo]

A solution????????????

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k577/mypickys/1362858488_8ab0b5da11_z.jpg


Bob

[rapidtornado]

maybe a bit of a daft suggestion... but could you not fit a small orange LED strip to the top of the wing mirror? I was looking at the carbon style mirrors and there seems to be enough real estate on the top of the mirror to fit the LED strip, then just route the cable inside the mirror?

Just a thought?

Something like this http://www.pocketbikesunlimited.com/images/carbon-fiber-mirror-set.jpg with this fitted

Rapid

[alga]

I think its worth mentioning that my Haynes Roadster passed the IVA in 2012 with the indicators on the scuttle. So before you all jump into rules and regulations about paperwork guidance about how they don't meet regulations, remember that many have passed with indicators on the scuttle.

But formally such repeaters don't fulfill the visibility requirements, so it's down to the tester to either overlook this or fail you.

The main purpose of the repeaters is to be visible to vehicles moving alongside of you in traffic, who don't see either your front or rear. This purpose is best served if they are mounted as far forward as possible. I guess that explains why Caterham and Westfield mount them on the front wing.

[flyerncle]

An observation,Spud's where on the side panels and so low that the exhaust melted one and that passed.