Where does this go?

[brainbug007]

What is this wire for? Its on the loom between the battery connections and the steering column
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0011.jpg

and this one, its on the loom by the alternator & crank sensor, next to the lamda sensor
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0013.jpg

[HandyAndy]

The first photo looks like it is just a general earth wire, is it a brown wire under the black protective sheath? if so I,d suggest attaching it to the chassis .

But then again..... I hate electrics so maybe talking a load of tosh :o :D

cheers
andy

[brainbug007]

So would it be safe to say any brown wires with a circle type connection at the end will just be earths that should be attached to the chassis (eg like the lights and the bundle of 4-5 by the fuse box)? Also is it safe to attach more than one earth to the same bolt?

[shaun]

The first one looks like an earth wire (as HandyAndy said).....I think.
The second one looks like a connection on to one side of the coil....I have a the I4 engine and the coil connection looks like that.....
You can put more than one earth wire on a connection.
Hope this helps.

Shaun

[twinturbo]

Yep collumn earth an +12v ignition feed for the coil,

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok so that's one down with the earth. Not sure what you mean about the +12v ignition feed for the coil though as I'm a bit of nub when it comes to this... Do I put it on something like the starter or where does that connect onto? My engine was a cvh cfi (injection)

[shaun]

The 12v ign feed will come from the ignition switch, not sure which terminal. Should be live when the key is in the run position. Hope this helps.

Shaun

[twinturbo]

you should have an ignition coil with + - connections, but looks like your missing the filter as you need a female fitting not the male one.

[brainbug007]

Hmm total nub questions then, what does the ignition coil look like?? Is that the same thing as the coil pack? I don't remember having anything over that side of the engine other than the alternator, starter motor, & power steering pump?

[twinturbo]

Metal cylinder , appx 15cm long , 5cm diamiter, with spark plug king lead. Found on inner wing.

TT

[brainbug007]

Hmm don't remember seeing anything like that, does it matter that mine was a distributorless setup(1.8 cvh R6A)?

[twinturbo]

Your probably right on that, can't say i have ever paid a vast amount of attention to the 1.6CVH setup.

Do you have the coilpack?

That fitting may well be superfluous on that car, I think it's part of the body loom and not the engine loom so would be present regardless of engine.

Coilpack will get it's +12V from the engine loom.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ya I've got a coilpack. Pretty sure the part in question was connected to something though as I labeled & numbered it but now can't find the corresponding number on my pile of bits :( If it is superfluous, any idea what else I won't have connected to be able to turn the engine on?

[twinturbo]

It may feed the coilpack, if so there would be a matching plug in the loom.

Are you still using the CFi? if so you will need the ECU and all the sensors connected. The engine loom is standalone from the main body loom, connecting via 3 plugs 4,6,8 pin behind the battery.

TT

[brainbug007]

No I've ditched the CFi and put bike carbs on as the CFi manifold didn't fit very well. I was under the impression I could ditch everything connecting into the CFi manifold except the fan switch and coolant temp sender for the dash? Was planning on posting those connections as well though mind you once I worked out the alternator side connections.

[twinturbo]

use that wire to feed the Megajolt +12v Ignition supply and Coilpack +12V Ignition supply.


I have just bought a set of ZX6 carbs for a bit of a play, but I should be able to retain the 1.8 Ignition system.

TT

[mark]

No I've ditched the CFi and put bike carbs on as the CFi manifold didn't fit very well. I was under the impression I could ditch everything connecting into the CFi manifold except the fan switch and coolant temp sender for the dash? Was planning on posting those connections as well though mind you once I worked out the alternator side connections.

True, as long as you have a megajolt ecu connected to your edis

Initially you can run on the edis alone at fixed timing to get it running though and check everything works

[brainbug007]

So will it be possible to start the engine without the megajolt or original ecu and just the edis?

[twinturbo]

Do you have an EDIS module as well as the coilpack? Not suer if the cfi has the EDIS embedded in the ECU.

TT

[brainbug007]

Yup I've got an EDIS connected onto the loom (just sitting on a top rail at the moment) and a coilpack bolted onto the block and connected as well. I was hoping to be able to start it in limp home mode without the original ecu or the megajolt connected. But when I turn the ignition nothing happens at the moment and the dash lights don't come on. The dash does have power though as mine was a low spec and had a clock instead of rev counter and this ticks round.

[twinturbo]

If the dash lights don't even come on then your missing a power feed of the battery or an earth.

It should fire without the ECU.

TT

[brainbug007]

Any suggestions as to where to look for the power feed? I'm pretty sure I've got all the earths stuck into the end of chassis rails for testing purposes.

[twinturbo]

Do you get +12v at the ignition switch?


TT

[brainbug007]

No idea to be honest, what does that look like and where would it be on the loom, and how do I check?

[brainbug007]

Ok so I had another dig around the loom and I found the female connection for the picture above, it was on the section of the loom next to the headlight so I'd been looking in the wrong spot :S I still don't get dash lights or ignition though so I've taken some pictures of the other bits I'm unsure of:

Exhibit A (has what looks like some vacum tubes attached)
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0014.jpg

Exhibit B (this makes a clicking sound when the main battery negative is first connected)
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0015.jpg

Exhibit C
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0016.jpg

[twinturbo]

A: - Electro Valve , probably the canister purge valve. Not realy necessary.

b: - MAP sensor,

C: - Dirty Old Man ( Indicator Flasher )

TT

[brainbug007]

Exhibit D
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0017.jpg

This also will make a clicking sound when the wire below (also mentioned in previous posts above) touches the negative on the battery.
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0011.jpg

I thought this was worth a try as I found a picture I took of the battery negative in the donor before I disconnected it and its the only wire I could find on the loom that looked like it.
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMG0060A.jpg

[twinturbo]

PS.. B Should not be clicking, it's most likly the relay in the fuse box.

TT

[brainbug007]

Hmm so skimming through the haynes service manual and I'm guessing the edis is the ignition switch in my setup? If so how do I test it's getting power? any other ideas what might be wrong?

[twinturbo]

D is a relay, don't recognise it out of context. Has it got any writing on it?

TT

[brainbug007]

D is a relay, don't recognise it out of context. Has it got any writing on it?

TT

It's on the loom next to the ecu plug and I'm pretty sure it said something about engine management on it

[twinturbo]

Could you remove that link, this site is provided by haynes and posting up copytheft material is not going to be liked by them.


What colour wires do you have at the ignition switch, do you have a multimeter?

TT

[twinturbo]

Ahh right, if it's clicking when you earth that tag then the tag should be earthed. Not sure off hand if it should be to the battery , But there's only ~5 earth points on a sierra anyway. does not realy matter where they are but on the donor there is usualy one at the base of each front door pillar ( although some cars may not have on on one side) one on the steering column support, one behind each headlight and and perhaps one at the battery ( but I can't remember)


TT

[brainbug007]

Link removed, sorry forgot about that. I have got the book in the garage but was being lazy... Ya I bought a cheap multimeter from wilks the other day to help with this but don't really know how to use it yet :S It mentioned though the other lead going onto the battery neg was some sort of service adjustment cable to do with the throttle I think?

[twinturbo]

The service lead would not be a permenant fixture but a ford workshop tool, I doubt the CFi has one as it would have the efi self test socket.

does the meter say Autoranging, or does it have a lot of settings on the dial. Your looking for DC Volts ( there may be a button to switch from AC to DC. And if it's not autoranging you want the 20V range if it has one.

Connec the black probe to the COM on the meter and to the battery negative. connect the red lead to the V+ if it has one (NOT THE AMPS socket) it may be called something similar.

Then touch the red probe on each of the terminals on the back of the ignition barrel and report back with the wiring colours..

Which May be...
Yellow
Red
Black
Black blue

[twinturbo]

http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/draper-products/draper-digital-multimeter-with-light-60792/invt/dr00126/?htxt=sz1QlksvqZ21%2Bz2kd%2BAzrKCfDAd94Y4cjH0lavVG 407hUgY6eiXbjSA5IzUTmjmypKsdRtmqUJU%2B%0AGCTAKIXJK g%3D%3D

TT

[brainbug007]

The one I got looks exactly like this http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/measures-levels+gauges/rapitest-digital-mini-electrical-test-meter/invt/0202332/?htxt=LKAlWGFy1MHCTtAE%2BBaBJRcVMYfqDi1ocVtDA0riSo sciBBKznVB9eFs%2FXRVQObYG9PR6asda6tw%0AgOjPFJ6uMQ% 3D%3D but its made by corelectrics instead of rapitest. according to the instructions it does a dc voltage measurement, ac voltage measurement, dc current measurement, resistance measurement and a diode test. It has a 2, 20, 200, & 500 volt settings. So I set to 20 dc volts and touch the wires on the edis with the red probe but I'm not sure what you mean by putting the black probe in the com on the meter and the battery negative and red to v+?

[twinturbo]

Flick switch to second from left

-------
- - - -

Rotate nob to 20V


looks like it must have fixed probes?

TT

[twinturbo]

Black lead to battery negative,

Red lead in sequence to each of the ignition switch positions.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ya the leads are fixed I guess as they're just wires coming out of the meter with metal spikes on the end so to speak. So just to make sure I've got it right though, I'm testing all the wires that plug into the edis module or the bundle of wires that connect to where the key turns?

[twinturbo]

where the key turns first.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok cool, thanks again for all the help :)

[twinturbo]

and recheck with the key in each position. (hold it in the start position whilst testin)

[davedew]

Knowing how much redundant wiring there was in gus's carb setup I expect the cfi setup will be even worse. I have got the same setup as you engine wise, but used a premier wiring loom as it is much neater than the original. Engine will run on edis alone, although it will run rough. Don't forget you will need the bike fuel pump wired in to supply the carbs with petrol.

[brainbug007]

Right so I tried the multimeter out on the ignition wires that connect onto where the key turns. I set it to 20 volts AC, put the black on the battery negative and the red on each wire (the loom positive connections where also connected to the battery positive). I've got a red, yellow, blue/black, and yellow black wires connecting on there. For some of the readings, it would first flash up with a number somewhere between 7 and 16 then after a second just show 1.

key position off (0)
red = 1
yellow = 0.01
blue/black = 1
yellow/black = 0

key position I
red=1
yellow=1
blue/black=1
yellow/black=1

key position II
red=1
yellow=1
blue/black=1
yellow/black=1

[twinturbo]

You need to be on DC.

TT

[brainbug007]

Opps.. Well I've redone it on DC this time and here's what I got:

Position 0
red=12.73
blue/black=12.67
yellow=0.01
yellow/black=0

Position 1
red=12.73
blue/black=12.67
yellow=12.73
yellow/black=0

Position 2
red=12.73
blue/black=12.67
yellow=12.73
yellow/black=12.73

[robo]

All your getting is the difference in voltage drop over the different circuits. Do yourself a favour and buy one of these

http://www.uktools.com/sealey-ppx-auto-probe-plus-24v-p-5079.html

They are brilliant, put the two leads to the battery and there are two small lights which detect what you have , green which is for the earth and a red for the live, further more its got a rocker switch so if you need a live press it one way and an earth press it the other. You can then run round all the circuits testing everthing ,bulbs ,sender units, fuseboards the lot for live and earths.

Bob

[davedew]

Blue/black is the starter impulse wire, and should only have 12v on it when the key is in position 3. I think you have got it connected on the wrong terminal on the starter motor. There should be what looks like 3 bolts on the starter motor. The one for the impulse wire will be nearest the ground when the starter motor is fitted.

[twinturbo]

All your getting is the difference in voltage drop over the different circuits. Do yourself a favour and buy one of these

http://www.uktools.com/sealey-ppx-auto-probe-plus-24v-p-5079.html

They are brilliant, put the two leads to the battery and there are two small lights which detect what you have , green which is for the earth and a red for the live, further more its got a rocker switch so if you need a live press it one way and an earth press it the other. You can then run round all the circuits testing everthing ,bulbs ,sender units, fuseboards the lot for live and earths.

Bob

A multimeter will do the job fine. We have confirmed from the results that there is a strange issue somewhere..

[twinturbo]

as dave, you should only see an output on the blue/black during cranking..

Your results is odd.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok, hopefully what dave suggested will be the case and I can fix it tonight and try starting it up :)

[brainbug007]

Ok so I checked the starter connections and as dave thought the red/black thin wire was on the wrong bolt (one on the top nearest to the block) so I swaped it onto the bottom one. I then re-checked the readings on the multimeter and they're the same as before, I'm still getting a 12v reading off the blue/black in all positions :( Out of curiosity I did connect the loom up to the battery negative and try checking the dash again and I do get one light coming on now (oil pressure I think?), the fuel gauge drops to zero (was previously showing full), and the water temp gauge goes up slightly by 5mm or so. Any idea's what I can try next to work out what's wrong?

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0020.jpg

[twinturbo]

disconnect the solenoid wire (the thin one from the starter) and let us know the results again at the ignition switch.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok tried that this morning before heading off to work and as suspected I guess with the thin (black/red) wire disconnected from the starter I now get a reading of 0 volts on the blue/black wire on the ignition. So what to do next?

[twinturbo]

Ok, that's sort of progress. It looks like you were getting back feed from the starter motor. We need to confirm the connections on the starter motor.

TT

[twinturbo]

Do you now get any reading on the blue/black wire whilst the key is in crank?

What are the voltages on the other wires now in each possition.

The next step if you showing 0v is to do a continuity test between the ignition switch +ve terminal and the lead at the battery.

TT

[Bonzo]

Here's a picture of the CVH Starter ( Original Ford unit )

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj266/Bonzoronnie/CVHStarter.jpg

The large teminal ( Red Arrow ) Should go straight to the Positive terminal of the battery ( 12v + )

The smaller terminal ( Black Arrow ) Should go to to the ignition switch ( 12v +, switched live )
Black/Blue wire.

Nothing goes to the Third terminal, other than the motors winding live feed wire from the solenoid ( Pictured )

The starter will get it's earth from a earth wire from the battery to one of the starters mounting bolts or other nearby location on the engine block.

I know it won't help with the strange reading that you are getting from the ignition switch but shoud hepl to confirm if the starter is wired correctly ;)

[brainbug007]

Yup that's definately how I wired it up, thick red onto the copper colored screw (red arrow), small red & black striped wire onto the screw you marked black (I changed this after davedew's note) and this sits closest to the floor when the starter is mounted. Also as mentioned there's a really thich black wire on the same section of the loom which I have bolted onto the gearbox. When I get home tonight I'll recheck the readings with the thin red/black striped wire disconnected. Also sorry for being a bit thick/new with this but can you explain what you mean and how to do "do a continuity test between the ignition switch +ve terminal and the lead at the battery"?

[twinturbo]

Set your meter to the Ohms switch (an omega sysmbol (Bit like headphones))

Set the dial to the top left setting that looks like a triangle with a line through it. also has a representation of a sound pulse ( picture is poor )

Touch the probes together and you should get a beep whilst they are connected.

Dis-connect the plug from the ignition switch.

Touch either probe on the positive side of the battery and whilst doing that touch the probe on each of the connections on the plug you just removed.

What are the results.

Also, take a wire from the small terminal on the starter motor, and touch it against the positive terminal on the battery. This should confirm the starter is working.



TT

[brainbug007]

Ok so the sound check part, that's called a continuity test? Also for the starter test, when you say the small terminal you mean the non-copper colored one that bonzo labeled with the black arrow? And then leave the thick red wire on the copper colored one? Also, would it have been feasable that my donor had something like an imobilizer fitted which is causing problems now? It looks like there was something running off the yellow/black striped wire at the ignition as this wire was cut and has a terminal block connecting it now.

[twinturbo]

Yes keep the big wire on.

And yes your car did have an immobaliser, you should have a black box about 2.5" x 2" x 3/4" . which needs to be bypassed if not plugged in.

But we need to confirm a few things first before moving on.

TT

[brainbug007]

Right so I've done the tests again, please tell me I haven't fried my starter motor :o

First DC voltage test with the thin wire off the starter motor
Position 0
Red=12.71
Blue/Black=0
Yellow=0
Yellow/Black=12.65

Position 1
Red=12.71
Blue/Black=0
Yellow=12.71
Yellow/Black=12.65

Position 2
Red=12.71
Blue/Black=0
Yellow=12.71
Yellow/Black=12.71

Position 3
Red=12.71
Blue/Black=12.71
Yellow=0
Yellow/Black=12.71

So next I did the continuity(beep) test by putting the red probe to the red battery positive, then touched the black probe into the ignition plug.

Position 0
Red=beeped value 008
Blue/Black=no beep value 1
Yellow=no beep value 1
Yellow/Black=no beep value 1

Position 1
Red=beeped value 012
Blue/Black=no beep value 1
Yellow=no beep value 1
Yellow/Black=no beep value 1

Position 2
Red=beeped value 015
Blue/Black=no beep value 1
Yellow=no beep value 1
Yellow/Black=no beep value 1

Position 3
Red=beeped value 014
Blue/Black=no beep value 1
Yellow=no beep value 1
Yellow/Black=no beep value 1

Next I tried having the battery positive & negative connections on, the small red/black stripped wire off the starter leaving the thick red on the starter and the thick black earthed on the gearbox. I then took what looked like a thick black wire off the zx6r loom I have (an earth wire maybe?) and touched one side to the battery positive and then one to the bottom bolt (black arrow in bonzo's picture) and nothing happened...

[twinturbo]

the yellow black being live all the time is odd.

I think we also need a good picture of your starter and it's connections. I would pull it off the car and get it on the bench for testing.

TT

[davedew]

I think the power at the ignition switch should be as follows.

Position 0
Red 12v
Yellow 0v
Black/Yellow 0v
Black/Blue 0V

Position 1
Red 12v
Yellow 12v
Black/Yellow 0v
Black/Blue 0V

Position 2
Red 12v
Yellow 12v
Black/Yellow 12v
Black/Blue 0V

Position 3 (Engine cranking)
Red 12v
Yellow 0v (Disabled while cranking)
Black/Yellow 12v
Black/Blue 12V

Anything other than the above is not correct

[twinturbo]

looks about right Dave..

TT

[brainbug007]

So what's likely to be causing my black/yellow to be live all the time?

[twinturbo]

Pull fuses 20,21,22 and see if the Bl/Ye goes to 0V if it does then try removing each in sequence.

TT

[davedew]

Ignition switch could be knackered, wire shorting out inside the loom, something connected incorrectly.

Got to remember loom is nearly 20 years old, has been ripped out of a car, stuffed in a box, and then laid out on your new chassis. They do get brittle.

[twinturbo]

Ignition switch could be knackered, wire shorting out inside the loom, something connected incorrectly.

Got to remember loom is nearly 20 years old, has been ripped out of a car, stuffed in a box, and then laid out on your new chassis. They do get brittle.

I am not using the sierra loom.


BBug, we can get it running without the main harness. But we need to make sure that starter is good .

TT

[brainbug007]

Fair enough, I'm hoping the starter isn't knackered as that won't be cheap to replace :( I'll take some photos from the front and top of the starter in position tonight when I get in then take it off the block and take a few more of it on the bench closer up. I'll try the fuses too and see what happens with those. Also I need to wire up my bike fuel pump and was planning to just use terminal blocks as I can't work out how to remove the wires from the bike loom plugs and then put the sierra loom wires into that plug. The bike pump has a red and black wire, and the sierra loom connection has a brown and red/black stripped wire. Which goes to which?

[davedew]

Same with me TT. After removing all the unnecessaray parts from Gus's Sierra loom, I decided it would be easier and more reliable in the long run to fit a new loom. That's why I went for a Premier Wiring loom in the end.

[twinturbo]

Black/Red to the Pump Red. (Feed)
Brown to the Pump Black. (Earth)

Cheers

TT

[davedew]

I am not sure if the bike fuel pump will work correctly wired like that. The bike pump is self regulating. ie it turns itself on and off as needed. Therefore it just needs an ignition switched power supply.

If you look at the Sierra wiring diagrams the fuel pump would have been controlled by the ecu via a relay. You are not using the Sierra ECU and therefore you will not just be able to connect the bike pump to the wires that the original pump was connected to.

[brainbug007]

Pants so whats a good way to re-wire it? do I just trace the wire back to whatever its connected into, disconnect it, and the connect to somewhere else?

[davedew]

My personnal opinion would be to forget the fuel pump, and get the engine cranking first. Then make sure you are getting sparks. The bike pump then just needs connecting to a position 2 power feed.

Before all of this though I would remove as much of the unnecessary wiring as possible. Interior lights, stereo, door switches, immobiliser, basically anything you don't need. I removed more than I left behind from Gus's loom and he only had a carbed engine!!

[brainbug007]

Ah right, I thought it would be best to leave stuff on for the meantime until I got it cranking/running to then make it easier to work out what I didn't need as there's alot of wires! Also long term I wanted to put a heater and stero in so would it be better to just leave those wires on the loom and hide them under the scuttle or take them off to put them back on further down the line?

[twinturbo]

Hmm, normally the EEC-IV ecu would power up the pump initially to prime, and then once running the ECU would keep +12V feed to the pump. Almost the same as having a ignition feed but the pump will only be running when the engine is ( safer in a crash ).

Your doing away with the ECU, so the two wires are going to be redundant(ISH).

Firstly, I would make sure the inertia cutoff is incorporated in your plans. This is a black box with a red push button on the top. It needs to be mounted to a solid surface with the red button pointing upwards.

Next we need to get a ignition live feed to the blue and red wire on the 4-pin multiplug behind the battery, doing that will energise the fuel pump relay.

The black wire on the 6 pin multi plug is ignition live.

TT

[twinturbo]

Ah right, I thought it would be best to leave stuff on for the meantime until I got it cranking/running to then make it easier to work out what I didn't need as there's alot of wires! Also long term I wanted to put a heater and stero in so would it be better to just leave those wires on the loom and hide them under the scuttle or take them off to put them back on further down the line?


Forget all of the loom for the moment apart from the engine loom, unplug it from the three multiplugs behind the battery. Apply +12V to the black wire on the multiplug. Apply power to the starter solenoid wire (once we have confirmed it's working). You should get crank and spark, and if you have something like "Start Ya bas...rd" the engine will run ( you can do this even with the old CFi unit.

TT

[brainbug007]

Woosh that was the sound of something going right over my head! I know the little black box with the button, I thought it was fuel cutoff? I was planning to mount it on the drivers side under the scuttle so in the event of a minor bump I could get to it easily enough to push the button back down after it'd probly have popup up. It's currently just dangling down below the steering wheel in an upright position with the button down. Will I need to take it off and re-wire it in somewhere else?

Next we need to get a ignition live feed to the blue and red wire on the 4-pin multiplug behind the battery, doing that will energise the fuel pump relay.

So i do have a plug but cant remember how many pins it has that sits really close to the battery but it's one that's not connect at the moment as I haven't sussed out what goes onto it. I thought it would be something like the heater or windscreen washer system?

The black wire on the 6 pin multi plug is ignition live.
are you refering to the big plug that went into the ecu?

[twinturbo]

Right,,, tiny bit of duff info there.... That plug we talked about ages ago for the coil. That's IS needed and is the supply to the coil pack, there must be a matching socket.

TT

[twinturbo]

there are 3 multi-plugs behind the battery 4pin, 6pin , 8 pin. These connect the body loom to the engine loom.

Inertia switch is another name for fuel cutoff

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok there's tons of plugs around that area with varios "branches" going all over the place it seems so I guess you're on about that as I didn't touch anything like that when I stripped it. It was only plugs that went into components so to speak that I disconnected to get the engine out, and then disconnected stuff on the bodywork so speak like lights to then be able to pull the loom out in one piece.

If you're refering to this I found the connection for it, it was next to the headlights:
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0013.jpg

[twinturbo]

That's the one, For some reason ford put the ignition feed to the coil on the Body loom ( which includes the front lighting loom ) and not on the engine loom.

So one part of the connection you will find on the engine loom, and the other on the body loom. If that's the engine loom then you can just connect it to +12V while testing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wmQZOEwR-4

1 wire to the coil feed.
1 wire to the black on the multiplugs.
1 to the starter wire.
(plus engine loom connected to battery)

TT

[brainbug007]

can't watch utube at work, will see if it plays on my phone at lunch ;) Have you got a picture of the multiplugs you're on about or is it clearly visible in the video?

[twinturbo]

Will take a picture for you later.

TT

[twinturbo]

This is sort of what they look like in their "Sierra" location.

http://www.claytune.org.uk/images/road/rds140911-1-sm.jpg

Although this is on for a slightly (HAHAHAHAH) modified installation..

But these three plugs should be on your engine loom.

TT

[brainbug007]

OK, I've definitely got a cluster of plugs that look like that very close to the battery connections. I didn't get a chance to work on the car really tonight so I'll have to try some of these things tomorrow night all going well. 1st thing to try is still take out fuses 20,21,22 and check black/yellow to see if one of the fuses has gone? Then take the starter off for testing?

[twinturbo]

The fuse won't have gone, We are looking for 12V coming back the wrong way indicating a short or miss connected wire. That wire should only feed via those fuses so with them removed we should hopefuly see 0v at the switch and then be able to work through the circuits...

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok so got in the garage tonight and worked on this a bit more. I started with the fuses and took out 20,21,22 like you said and tried the voltage test again. I'm still getting 12v coming thru though with the fuses out on the yellow/black wire at the ignition :(

Here's a picture of the fuse box, I took out the 3 at the top left:
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0021.jpg
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0022.jpg

So I took a picture of the alternator connections just incase they're wrong..
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0028.jpg

[brainbug007]

Here's a picture of how the starter is currently wired up:
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0029.jpg

and some pictures of it on the bench:
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0030.jpg
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0032.jpg

[brainbug007]

I'm guessing these are the multiplugs you mentioned?
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0024.jpg

I've also got this thing which I'm not sure what it's for?
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0025.jpg

And another plug like this at the battery connections:
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0026.jpg
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0027.jpg

[twinturbo]

Ok test the voltages on the plug for the ignition switch with it unplugged.

Starter looks right, you can bench test it with a black jumplead on the case to the negative on the battery. Red Jump lead to the big terminal and + on the battery and then touch another wire from the + to the smaller terminal on the starter. IT WILL Jump a bit :)

TT

[twinturbo]

the last plug looks like a side repeater.

the one with a red cap is the self test socket.

Alternator looks right.

[brainbug007]

Ok so I just went & tested the starter like you said, needless to say it made me jump! So I guess it's working ok as it spun round and jumped and make some nice big sparks.

I also checked the yellow/black wire in the plug with the multimeter and there's still 12v coming thru to the plug in all key positions :(

So what does the self test socket do?

[twinturbo]

unplug the ignition switch, we need to determine if the switch is causing the +12V on the wire or if there's voltage on it regardless.

I think we can put the starter issue down to the immobaliser. PM on its way...

TT

[brainbug007]

So when I just did that voltage check, I had unplugged the ignition at the column and stuck the probes down into the plug on the loom side vs key hole side so to speak?

[twinturbo]

Yes. loom side

[brainbug007]

Ok I checked the ignition plug loom side and I still get 12v on the yellow/black wire in all key positions(reading does go up slightly in position 3). I also had a look for the plug you mentioned in your pm and I can't see anything like that. I have got a pair of 2 row, 6 pin plugs that are red & white nearby but I'm not sure if anything was plugged into them when I stripped it. I have disconnected the whole stero loom as this was just one plug that went in near the column so maybe it's on there somewhere or that needs to be connected?

[robo]

Its only a thought but most of the problems seem to stem from what is present in the way of live feeds to and from the ignition switch. Has the ignition switch/barrel ever been dismantled? We had a situation a while ago on a machine where the plastic bit on the back of the switch had been tugged out and one of our guys just shoved it back on and bent the tags over again. This in effect had wrongly indexed the barrel to the switch and had the starter engaged all the time.<cost me a starter> but a lot more in time finding the fault.

Just thoughts.

Bob

[brainbug007]

Well again a newbie question here but is the ignition switch the same as barrel where the key goes in or is somewhere else on the loom? I guess we've proved by testing the voltages on the plug (not the barrel) are the same as the barrel so I would have thought the problem is somewhere else in the loom?

[robo]

Has the ignition barrel been off or dismantled or any part of the assembly been apart. Also was the donor a runner when you got it ie,on the button.

[brainbug007]

The ignition barrel/assembly hasn't been touched for what i can tell I can tell but I'm a bit of a newbie that way. It was just unplugged when I took the loom out. It just looked like the yellow/black wire was cut at some point in the past before me as it was joined up with a terminal block when I took it apart. The donor was indeed running as I drove it home because I didn't have means to move a non-runner.

[twinturbo]

Ignition switch is on the oposit end of the barrel from the key.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok so that rules that out I guess. Where do I go next to try and get it running? Do you think I need to connect the ecu?

[twinturbo]

We need to figure out waht's wrong with the loom. Did you check the voltages with the switch unplugged?

TT

[brainbug007]

Yes, they where the same as with it plugged in.

[brainbug007]

I've been trying to read the wiring diagram and it looks like there should only be two wires on the ignition switch on the 1.6/1.8 cfi's. A red and yellow/black. It looks like the yellow/black should to to the anti-theft module (which I don't think I have), then it also seems to split and go to 1) power delay relay as a black wire? 2) ecu as a black wire [pin 5] 3) edis as a black wire [pin 8]. The red wire coming out of the ignition on the other had appears to split also and go to an engine managment relay, the battery positive, the ecu via a fuse [pin 1], and the power delay relay. Is the problem something like because I don't have the ecu plugged in, it's not completing the circut and i need to cut the ecu wires off and connect them up to each other?

[twinturbo]

Ok. Have you found the alarm module and it's black/Yellow wires. Unplug the module and test the voltage at the ignition again.

Also test the continuity between the starter wire at the starter and the blue/black at the switch.

Have you managed to find the matching wires for the coil?

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok. Have you found the alarm module and it's black/Yellow wires. Unplug the module and test the voltage at the ignition again.
It doesn't look like mine had an alarm as I can't find any plugs for it on the loom.

Also test the continuity between the starter wire at the starter and the blue/black at the switch.
I'll try this when I get home.

Have you managed to find the matching wires for the coil?
yes that's connected now

[davedew]

In the below picture the security module is the black box you can see right at the bottom of the picture. I think all the later Sierra's had one fitted regardless of spec.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz233/davemdew/Gus%20Haynes%20Roadster/IMG_2555.jpg

The mass of wiring in the picture is all the loom that was removed from Gus's car as it was not required, and his was only a basic model without electric windows etc.

[brainbug007]

I'll have a look thru my pile later for something like that but I don't remember anything like that but I'm probly wrong! I plan to start picking off all the black tap that the loom is wrapped up in to make tracing some of these wires easier. I've also been picking my way through the wiring diragram for the sierra and looking for stuff I think i'll need to take out. For example will I need to keep things like the engine management relays or the power delay relay?

[twinturbo]

Yep that black box is the alarm/imobaliser. Present on all post 90 cars.

TT

[davedew]

Looking at diagram 4 in the Haynes manual (1.6 & 1.8 CVH Engine CFI 1990 onwards), the only essential items you must keep to make the engine run in your setup are as follows.

1. Item 40 - Crankshaft position sensor.
2. Item 57 - EDIS Module
3. Item 112 - Ignition Coil
4. Item 153 - Suppressor

All the other items could be binned without trouble.

[robo]

In the below picture the security module is the black box you can see right at the bottom of the picture. I think all the later Sierra's had one fitted regardless of spec.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz233/davemdew/Gus%20Haynes%20Roadster/IMG_2555.jpg

The mass of wiring in the picture is all the loom that was removed from Gus's car as it was not required, and his was only a basic model without electric windows etc.

All this must start to make that wiring loom from premiers look very attractive!

Bob

[davedew]

The photo only shows all the redundant wiring. You have then got all the excess that needs cutting out for the lights, and engine circuits to get the wiring neat, rather than having coils of wiring loom.

I never bought a donor only that parts I needed so I had no choice but to buy a wiring loom. If you have a look in my photobucket you can see the Premier wiring loom being fitted.

I would recommend it to anybody. Quality product comes with loads of connectors and a crimping tool.
I even had mine modified by having it made without all the wiring for wipers & heater as I never intend to fit one. I also told them I had the later spec column switches so they made sure the relays were wired accordingly.

[brainbug007]

Right I had another dig thru my pile of parts and I definitely don't have anything that looks like that. I remember though when my mate helped me strip it that there was some things we left or cut off the loom as they'd be redundant like interior lights etc. so I don't know if this was one of the things that got left. My donor was a really low spec though as it didn't even have a rev counter so is it possible though that it may not have been fitted with the anti-theft module?

I tried a continuity test between the thin red/black starter wire and the blue/black wire at the ignition and I only get a beep when its in position 3.

I did manage to get all the tape off the loom from the column up to the fusebox and traced the yellow/black wire that's got voltage which shouldn't. About an inch away from the fuze box it hits a solder joint where it splits into 9 other wires all of which are yellow/black or black. most seem to go into the fuse box into the relays, some seem to go to small plugs nearby then go back to the fusebox. I got as far as tracing one of the small black splits but then it disappears into the engine loom towards the inlet manifold connections. I did however retry the voltage test against the solder joint and noticed I only got a very small number (0.05) so I retried it against the loomside ignition plug and got the same reading. I must've done something wrong when I tested it last time :confused:

4. Item 153 - Suppressor what does this look like as I don't think i've got anything like that wired in at the moment as it should sit close to the coilpack?

With removing all the redundant wires, am I better of waiting till I can get it to crank & run before I start taking stuff out? There seems to be alot of plugs all over the place of different size & shapes which didn't have anything plugged into them :confused:

[davedew]

The suppressor is a grey box with single black wire going to it. It would have been bolted to the coilpack bracket on the side of the engine.

Personnally I would try and get the engine to run before removing anything else from the loom.

[brainbug007]

:confused: I dont have any grey boxes like that with a single wire going into them near my coilpack. do you have a picture of one?

[robo]

Cant help but think your losing to much valuable build time over this wiring problem. A few of the guys here could probably get to the bottom of it if they were there. Might pay to get a local autospark to have a gander. Set yourself a time limit and if its still no go tie a long rope to the loom, fasten it to the back of your daily driver and drive off. That would remove the problem so you can start again.

Bob:D

[brainbug007]

lol maybe.. I'd really like to get it working with the original loom as I'd rather not spend 100 quid on a premier loom if i can help it! I guess its just a case of slowly working my way thru it. I'll be alot happier when I can get the engine to run though :)

[HandyAndy]

I really admire Brainbug for trying to get his donor loom working, & think its great that forum members are doing their very best to help....great forum spirit guys :cool:

I know I would,ve given up a long time ago as I hate electrics :o so I went the Premier Wiring Loom route , well worth the money ( & I,m tight :p ) , & even paid an Auto Electrician to fit it for me.........hate electrickery :o

Hope you get your engine running soon Brainbug .

cheers
andy

[brainbug007]

lol thanks for the encouragement andy, i can't wait too to hear the vroom

[brainbug007]

Yipee i got it cranking!!! A big thanks to twin & davedew for getting me this far!!! I was missing the surpressor conection and as suspected, the black wire with the blue tip has to go on the battery negative. I now also get the battery warning light coming on at the dash. Im not getting indicator or parking brake lights but im not sure if these should be on with the key in position 2? I now just need to get the bike fuel pump running so any ideas there? Ive traced the red/black wire to the inertia switch and from there to the fusebox at a 20 amp fuse. It then goes off into an engine management relay.

[twinturbo]

See here.

http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=64791&postcount=78

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok so have I sorta get what to do. I remove the red/black interia switch wire from the fusebox and then I'm a bit lost. Do I put this to the blue/red wire on the 4 pin multiplug or the black wire on the 6 pin multiplug by the battery?

[twinturbo]

Next we need to get a ignition live feed to the blue and red wire on the 4-pin multiplug behind the battery, doing that will energise the fuel pump relay.

The black wire on the 6 pin multi plug is ignition live.

Take a wire form the black wire on the car side of the 6 pin multiplug by the battery. (this is an ignition live feed)

Take the wire to the car side of the 4 Pin multiplug behind the battery, and connect it to the blue/red wire. (this is the feed to the pump relay)

That's all you should need to do to get the pump to come on with the igniton.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok think i've got you now, so all I'm really doing is adding a new wire between the 6 pin plug and the 4 pin plug at the battery? What's the best way to do this? Do I try and strip down part of the wires and then solder on? Is there something like a 3 way terminal block I should use? Or is there a way to open the 4/6 pin plugs up and insert the wire down into them?

[brainbug007]

Twin, can you tell me which black wire on the wiring diagram I should run the pump off?

[twinturbo]

Just realised an error in my statement above. Connect 6 pin black to 4 pin black. connect blue/red to earth (cut the wire on the car side and connect car side of loom to a good earth)

TT

[brainbug007]

Won't I still need to move the black/red going to the inertia switch somewhere as it's currently going into the engine management relay (via a fuse) which I thought I should remove?

[twinturbo]

No leave it alone. the relay is probably the fuel pump relay.

TT