It won't start

[brainbug007]

So I've got all my leaks sorted now except for the radiator. I've got the bike carbs mounted and the fuel line fitted. Bike pump runs and charges up the pressure (ran for about 30 secs slowing down till it stopped). I held the throttle open slightly with a screwdriver and tried to start the engine. It cranks and you can hear what sounds like air being released but doesn't start up. After letting it crank a bit then turning the key off, I tried again. Still no joy and after a few minutes of trying this the battery seemed to die as the battery light on the dash got really dim while cranking and it sounded like it was really struggling to crank. I took the battery off thinking it must just not have had enough charge and sure enough it was empty when I connected it up to the charger. I left it for a couple of hours till it had a good charge and tried again but with no luck. So I'm guessing enough fuel/air mixture isn't getting through from the carbs into the head or I've got no spark. Any ideas what I can check to get it going? (note I'm running a 1.8 CVH CFi with a bike carb conversion so it's distributor-less and trying to start it up in limp home mode with only the edis and no megajolt)

[twinturbo]

Take a spare spark plug, pop it in the end of one of the plug leads, then connect a jump lead from the metal thread of the plug to the negative on the battery.

Turn it over and see if you get a spark.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok so I don't have a spare spark plug. Noob question but are they all the same size etc as I'll need to go buy one from somewhere.. I suppose if i need to replace them I'll need a tool to get them out like http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=spark+plug&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1582&bih=765&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7034219237092091587&sa=X&ei=1rqETtXcEse68gOwtfRJ&ved=0CLsBEPMCMAc ?

[mark]

Ok so I don't have a spare spark plug. Noob question but are they all the same size etc as I'll need to go buy one from somewhere.. I suppose if i need to replace them I'll need a tool to get them out like http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=spark+plug&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1582&bih=765&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7034219237092091587&sa=X&ei=1rqETtXcEse68gOwtfRJ&ved=0CLsBEPMCMAc ?

I take it you havnt taken them out already then if you have no tool to do it!

You may have damaged them when you had the head off if they were left in place

Definately get a tool, get a new set of plugs and then check for spark, a local motor factors will sort you out

It should fire really easy, even in limp mode, mine fired first go

You probably have damaged plugs or no spark or possibly both!

[ayjay]

If the engine has been standing for some time you may be short of compression due to the lack of oil in the rings . Try a squirt of oil down the plug ports then spin over a bit before putting plugs back in (having checked for spark).
Its worked for me in the past.;)

[mark]

Remember to check that you have oil pressure before you start it up once you get the spark sorted

[brainbug007]

Ya the plugs are the original donor ones and where left in thru removing the engine and taking the head off to fix the gasket leak.

How do I check I have oil pressure though? I have the pressure sensor connected and the light comes on the dash but that won't go out till the engine is running?

Also, are all spark plugs the same size so I don't need to worry about getting the wrong size or wrong size tool for removing them?

[vmax1974]

I would invest in an oil pressure gauge there worth there weight and will tell you if something is wrong before your engine lets go

[twinturbo]

there's usualy 3 sizes of car spark plug.

If you want to confirm spark, pull off a lead, rest a screwdriver inside the lead so that it touches the internal conductor and find somwhere else that allows the shaft to me 2-3mm away from a clean metal component of the engine. You should get a spark from the shaft of the screwdriver to the engine.

TT

[mark]

If you turn it over for long enough with oil in, the light should go out (without fuel or spark at this point, but with plugs fitted)

Just ask for spark plugs for a 1.8cvh and then a plug socket to suit

[davedew]

You will probably need some choke to get it to start. Mine took a few goes to start in limp home mode to begin with.

The air noise you can hear could be the manifold leaking. If it isn't perfectly flat after you welded it up, it might not be sealed against the head correctly

[deezee]

If its not even spluttering then it sounds like your not getting any spark. I've started an engine with no exhaust, no gasket on the carbs and running limp home (10 deg BTDC) and it started fine. Ran rough as an old dog... but still started.

[brainbug007]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm going to try twin's screwdriver method tonight to see if I've got a spark. The battery should be nice and full by then after charging all last nite and today to rule that out. If I've got a spark then I'll try putting some oil down the plug holes like ajay suggested and turn it over a bit to get it nice and oiled up.

I'm guessing with all of my attempts so far I should be getting close to building up enough pressure for the oil lamp to go out indicating the oil pressure has built up enough? But taking the plugs out to put some oil down will reset the pressure?

Dave when you say a bit of choke, is that different to holding the throttle open a bit? (I've got a screwdriver holding it open between a 1/8 and 1/4 as I don't have a throttle cable or choke cable fitted yet).

[davedew]

By opening the choke to introduce more fuel into the engine making it easier to start. By opening the throttle the way you have you might be leaning the mixture making it more difficult to start.

I would shut the throttle and open the choke and see what happens. You can always adjust the throttle stop screw to set the idle speed higher.

[twinturbo]

whislt the plugs are out and if your not replacing them, give them a clean with some wire wool.

Pouring oil down the bores is nothing to do with oil preasure, it's purely to try and raise compression if the rings are thought to be letting combustion past. I would imagine it would be firing anyway but a little badly.

Dirty, damp plugs is a prime suspect if there is a spark. Or Static timing.

If your drawing fuel you should smell it on the plugs.

TT

[brainbug007]

By opening the choke to introduce more fuel into the engine making it easier to start. By opening the throttle the way you have you might be leaning the mixture making it more difficult to start.

I would shut the throttle and open the choke and see what happens. You can always adjust the throttle stop screw to set the idle speed higher.

Any idea where the choke will be on the carbs and what it looks like?

[davedew]

In the picture you sent me of your carbs, it is the brass coloured slide at the top of the picture with a spring attached to it. You slide it to the right in the picture to turn the choke on.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/brainbug007/IMAG0048.jpg

[mark]

Any idea where the choke will be on the carbs and what it looks like?

You will probs need to connect this up on a choke cable once you are all sorted too, my st motor starts fine with no choke but my cvh liked the choke from cold

CBS do one that locks when you twist it

You will need some bigger jets in eventually too, my cvh was initially on standard zx6r jets and it was dangerously lean up in the rev range

Ended up with 175s or 180s cant remember which was best now on the rollers, both safe but one gave a touch more power

I might have a few sets of jets in the garage that will suit, i will pm if i find any

The standard ones were in mine at iva as it was only driven around the car park and sailed through emmisions

[brainbug007]

Nice one, thanks for the info mark. If you got some jets that you don't need, I'd definately be interested. Like you said though, it sounds like it maybe better to leave fitting the bigger ones till post iva though. I tried turning it over again tonight after the battery being left to charge all night & day. Still the same thing, a slow crank with a sort of wheezing sound. The neighbor walked by at the time and he reckons the battery is shot as he seemed to think it should spin up alot faster than it is. I guess it's a bad sign really when the battery is flat and the charger shows it being full again with 20 mins...

So I probly need a new battery now but I'm gonna try and jump start it off my daily driver tomorrow to see.

One thing though, if I do need a new battery, the donor one had holes thru the terminals so the connections bolted onto the terminals. I haven't seen a modern battery with holes in the terminals like this before so is there some sort of adapter I can get to be able to bolt the connections onto a modern battery from somewhere like halfords?

Also if I go get a new one, what sort of amp rating am I looking for to be able to start a cvh like this?

[mark]

I got an odyssey pc680 from ebay, only small but more than upto the job of a kitcar

A little pricey, but nice and light and can be mounted in any position

You can buy normal round clamp on terminals if you want to change to a battery not specified for the sierra

[brainbug007]

Right I worked on this a bit more today and got a bit farther but it still won't fire :( I managed to eventually get the spark plugs out, they where in really tight...

I then put a new battery on (640 amps) and fitted a new plug onto an ht lead and tried to fire it to see if I got a spark. I didn't :( So I tried connecting various other bits of the loom and eventually found that for some reason the fan switch has to be connected to get a spark?

So with the spark plugs removed, I put a bit of oil down each plug hole (maybe a couple of tablespoons worth in each plug). I then turned it on to help work the oil into the pistons and it spins round nice and fast.

Next I put all the new plugs in properly and connected the HT leads. I then tried to start it again and now it doesn't even spin at all. You can hear the starter motor struggling trying to spin the flywheel but nothing.

Any ideas what to do next??

[robo]

Sounds like its hydrauliced.
Take the plugs back out and give it a spin for a few seconds.

Bob

[twinturbo]

too much oil.

You may need to soak it up.

TT

[brainbug007]

How can I soak up the excess oil?

I tried taking the plugs back out and it still wouldn't turn again. I checked the battery and it'd gone dead! Does trying to start the engine like this drain the battery really quickly as I didn't think a brand new battery would die so quickly after 10 or so attempts to start?

[baz-r]

take all plugs out, put rag over (not in) plug holes and spin over the engine will get enough oil out
then check too see if your engine will turn over by hand with a wrench
befor you put the plugs in
seems a bit odd to me if your battery keeps going flat ther is no smoke leeking out of your loom anywhere is there?:D like you have some form of short in it
a big spark would be a give away when you conect it up to the battery
or it may only be shorted with the ign on possibly

[brainbug007]

I've not noticed any smoke coming out anywhere, that would be quite bad..

I tried turning it by hand using the pulley bolt but can't seem to turn it clockwise at all? Like its stuck?

[baz-r]

I've not noticed any smoke coming out anywhere, that would be quite bad..

I tried turning it by hand using the pulley bolt but can't seem to turn it clockwise at all? Like its stuck?

with the plugs out?

[twinturbo]

Your starter is probably jammed. Smack it with an engineers fettle.

TT

[twinturbo]

Are all the plugs still intact?

Also, if you can, check the cam timing again.

TT

[brainbug007]

with the plugs out?
Yup plugs are out.

Your starter is probably jammed. Smack it with an engineers fettle
When you say engineers fettle, do you mean hammer?

Are all the plugs still intact?Also, if you can, check the cam timing again.

The old plugs didn't look too bad at the ends, the neighbor seemed to think they where still in a usable state. They where a bit rusted on the sides though which is why they where really hard to get out I guess. Either way I bought brand new bosh ones and have binned the old ones.

I guess once I get the starter motor unstuck I can check how well it lines up at tdc.

[monsterob]

im having similar troubles with a much simpler engine matie dont worry you will get there in the end.

anyone know about 70's outboard motors?:confused:

[brainbug007]

Came across this and it seems to have some good info http://www.classic-car-magazine.co.uk/articles/starter-motor-maintenance.html sounds like part of my problem may be bad connections as the battery terminal wires do get warm after attempting to start which would indicate bad earths? I'm guessing having painted my engine & gearbox this is probly interferring too much? Also for my body earth point (battery->body & engine->body) I've just fitted a rivnut which I bolt the straps onto, is this sufficent for a decent earth?

[twinturbo]

I don't think a rivnut will be a good idea, there will be corrosion between the two dissimilar metals that will lead to a poor earth over time.

TT

[brainbug007]

So what would you recommend for doing the body earth?

[davedew]

For all my earths I welded on M6 bolts to the chassis where I needed them. I think I put something like 6 on in total. Just grind the writing off the top of the bolt head first to make sure you get a good contact patch against the chassis member.

[adrianreeve]

Should be ok if you use a smear of copper grease on the bolt.

Cheers

Adrian

[brainbug007]

Ok that's a good idea, thanks guys :)

[robo]

For all my earths I welded on M6 bolts to the chassis where I needed them. I think I put something like 6 on in total. Just grind the writing off the top of the bolt head first to make sure you get a good contact patch against the chassis member.


I do the same and also put a cotton reel in the engine bay to dump all the live battery connections to.http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQziaG3w3ciHsRzVoGnGs0Qea892-kA5cp1A23CHYXgDghN9spYKw Keeps all the piles of lives and after thoughts in one place and insulated at the same time.

Bob

[brainbug007]

Right I had a go at this again tonight, still no joy. I sorted all the earths out by taking all the paint off and welding a bolt onto the chassis as recommended. I took the starter off and tested it as well. I turned round by hand fine & I connected it to the battery on its own and it spun round no problem. I still however can't crank the engine by hand, like it's still stuck on something? I tried draining most of the oil out to see if that might help but nothing :mad:

[robo]

Try and turn the engine anti clock by hand or with a socket on the crank. If it goes 180 degrees and stops there must be something in one of the combustion chambers.

Bob

[brainbug007]

Pants is probly the oil I put down... I tried turning anti clockwise a bit to see if I could loosen it to turn it clockwise but the pulley bolt just untightens :(

[twinturbo]

If the plugs are out, the starter is off, it's out of gear, and the plugs are intact...

Then the final logical conclusion is that valves have got frisky with the pistons.

TT

[brainbug007]

so how do i loosen it so it'll crank?

[davedew]

Depends why it won't turn over. If like TT says the valves have hit the pistons you could be looking at a head rebuild. It must be pretty stuck if you can undo the crank bolt when trying to turn it anti clockwise, using I assume only a ratchet.

Was the timing correct when you put the head back on after you had your 'big leak'?

I would say your only option now is to drain any coolant out of the engine, and take the head off again. If you can turn the engine over by hand with the head off, you know that the problem is with the head / timing. If it won't turn over even with the head off, the bottom end has seized up for some reason.

You need to be careful and methodical when rebuilding the engine and getting it to start, as you could soon end up with a big engine shaped paper weight!!

[brainbug007]

Ug I was hoping there was a way to sort it without taking the head off again, but 3rd time lucky maybe.. As far as I know the timing was setup ok when I put it back together, the woodrow key (bit that sticks out) was pointing due north so to speak in line with the oil pump line on the block and camshaft pulley was also pointed due north with the small triangle inside one of the circles pointed at the dot on the head. Once I get the head off what am I looking for? I hoping the bottom end will turn over by hand ok leaving the head to deal with. It just seems strange that it was spinning over fine until I put the new spark plugs in and tried to turn it over again when it then jammed :(

[will_08]

Have you ever gave it a good hand crank? the engine i mean :D

has it been rebuilt by you or just a donor engine thats been sat for a while?

Ive been told to put cola down bores before, to free up stuck rings!?!?! might be worth a go?

[davedew]

If the bottom end turns over once the head is off the next thing to do is see if the cam will turn in the head.

If it does you could try just resetting the timing and refit the head. If you had a valve spring compressor you could take the valves out and check none are bent.

[brainbug007]

Have you ever gave it a good hand crank? the engine i mean :D

has it been rebuilt by you or just a donor engine thats been sat for a while?

Ive been told to put cola down bores before, to free up stuck rings!?!?! might be worth a go?

Yup it was cranking fine by hand and electrically up until I put the new plugs in after putting a bit of oil down each plug hole as suggested by someone else earlier in this thread.

It's the donor engine and all I've done to it is put a new head gasket on it, shorten the sump, put bike carbs on it, and I'm trying new plugs at the moment.

Not sure I want to put anything else down just yet as putting the oil down seems to have caused the problem as it was cranking fine before that :(


If the bottom end turns over once the head is off the next thing to do is see if the cam will turn in the head.

If it does you could try just resetting the timing and refit the head. If you had a valve spring compressor you could take the valves out and check none are bent.


Hopefully like you say it'll be ok with the head off and I'll be able to hand crank them seperately. I don't have a valve compressor, how much is one of these and how difficult is it to take them out? Also will I need to put a new head gasket on doing this or should I be ok re-using the semi-new one now?

[davedew]

You should really be using a new head gasket and head bolts everytime you take them out.
The valves are easy to do. You will need a cranked end valve compressor something like the below. The flat ended ones won't work on 1.8 cvh.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sealey-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Tool-OHC-OHV-CVH-VS153-/290490983108?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item43a29ca2c4

[robo]

Putting oil down the bores should not be causing any problems, even if you did over do it by taking out the plugs and spinning it over the excess would just pump out. The fact that it wont turn anti clock or clockwise means there is something jammed up. It might not even be related to the engine, there could be a stray bolt jammed between the ring gear and the bell housing (have seen that before>. Before tearing down the motor just check out the obvious. You could check for a dropped valve from inside the rocker cover, look for a massive clearance between the cam and followers.

Bob

[brainbug007]

Just out of curiosity, if it does turn out the engine is shot would a zetec with bike carbs and a cat get thru emmisions at iva?

[mark]

Just out of curiosity, if it does turn out the engine is shot would a zetec with bike carbs and a cat get thru emmisions at iva?

If you find a 94 or older zetec it wont need a cat

If you use a newer one i think it is possible with the correct mixture across the range, but cats dont like being abused so if it ran rich at some point in the revs you could ruin the cat quickly

If your cvh ran before you stripped it and it hasnt ran since it should run again!

There isnt that many things that would physically stop it turning over so im sure you can find the culprit easily enough

[brainbug007]

Well I had it to bits now and I couldn't see anything jamming it up. I have no idea if there was something by the flywheel but there was no way to see in there really. So I took the timing cover & belt off and there was nothing there. Then took the inlet & exhausts manifolds and finally the head. I then tried turning the head and it cranked on its own fine with no resistance. I then tried to crank the bottom and it still wouldn't budge indicating it was the bottom end that had seized up :(

I got the head off and onto the bench and couldn't see anything that looked different like gaps in the followers looked ok with no gaps and the valves on the bottom looked ok. I then turned my attention to the block and as expected there was about 3mm of oil sitting in each cylinder and at first it wouldn't crank by hand but after a second or two of pressure trying to turn the pulley with a socket it started to move! Slowly it got easier till eventually it would turn round without much resistance. I guess the inside of the cylinders are nicely oiled now although it doesn't look like any of the oil had seeped past the pistons into the sump?

[mark]

Maybe had some light rust due to the water you got in there holding it in place

[brainbug007]

Wouldn't surprise me, just strange how everything was ok for and then it stuck all the sudden like that :confused:

[twinturbo]

You may get away with reusing the gasket and bolts for testing. But I would plan to replace them before using the engine.

TT

[brainbug007]

Well I've ordered a new set so I'll replace them when they show up. Hopefully when I get it all back together it'll start this time!

[twinturbo]

Bolt it back up with the old gasket anyway, don't do the bolts mega tight.

Then check it turns over by hand so we know that's fixed..

There is one possibility that I forgot although it's slim but should be checked anyway. It's possible the water pump is very very seezed.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok well I'll try turning it over by hand again tonite with the old gasket, shame it's not really re-usable as its only been on for a couple of weeks :( Is the water pump the pulley directly above the crank pulley and below the tensioner? If so I tried turning this by hand this morning and no issues there.

[Enoch]

Yup it was cranking fine by hand and electrically up until I put the new plugs in after putting a bit of oil down each plug hole as suggested by someone else earlier in this thread.



Daft question but were the new plugs the same length as the old plugs? If it was cranking fine until you changed them then that's the first thing to check.
It's unlikely putting a drop of oil down the bores knackered it unless you put way too much down there and have created a hydrostatic lock.

[brainbug007]

I think the plugs where the same size, they screwed in ok. I'll have to check tonight though. They where bosch ones I got from halfords for around £20, apparently uprated ones. I know I needed a 5/8 socket tool to get them out. When I had the head off there was about 3-5mm of oil pooled in each cylinder?

[MikeB]

sounds like it was too much oil to me and locking the engine.
Hopefully wont have done any damage, now its all turning freely bolt it back up and I'm sure it will be good!

Next time its recommended to put oil down the bores perhaps a quantity would help :) I've only ever put a half a dozen drops down.

Still odd it was hard to crank with the head off though

[brainbug007]

Finally got it back together last night and cranking by hand ok again. Strangely though it won't hand crank off the crank pulley bolt once the pulley is on?

Anyhow I got all the auxillaries back on and tried to start it again. It nearly went as I got sort of hollow popping sounds and puffs of smoke coming out the exhaust! After about 30 seconds of about 5 seconds trying to crank, 5 seconds off the battery died on me again from full :(

So I left the battery charging overnight and tried it again this morning and I got farily regular smoke coming out the exhaust but it still won't start & stay runnnig :(

Any ideas?

[twinturbo]

Buy a can of "start ya b$%^$%d" turn off the fuel pump and spray SYB into each carb choke.

Then give it a go.

the battery going flat must be a dud battery by now.

TT

[brainbug007]

the battery is brand new though! I only bought it last weekend :( I'm going to halfords tonight though on the way home to get a belt for the alternator as I'm hoping that will help slow down how quickly it goes flat, can I get this SYB there? Also not sure what the bike carb chokes look like ( I have got the choke held fully open).

[brainbug007]

Also how much of syb do you spray down each port?

[twinturbo]

Choke is just another name for the carb barrels.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_22 1705_langId_-1_categoryId_255221

Is more or less the same stuff

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok so just spray it down the air inlet trumpets and how much would you recommend? A quick squirt, a second, 2 seconds worth of squirt etc?

[twinturbo]

a 3 second squirt in each port, and if it fires you will need to keep giving each port a snifter to keep it running..

If that work, you may then find it will start on fuel alone, if not then another go with the gas and the fuel pump running may see it going properly.

TT

[brainbug007]

Good stuff, looking forward to it now :) many thanks again for all your help!

[davedew]

When you say it won't crank with the pulley bolt done up, is that with the alternator pulley on?

When you have had the engine in bits have you ever taken all the bottom pulleys off including the cambelt pulley? There should be a thrust washer behind the cambelt pulley. If this is missing the pulleys might be doing up against the front of the oil pump and jamming it up.

Might be worth a look.

[brainbug007]

Hard to describe as I'm not sure of the proper names for stuff but here goes:

theres a spoked wheel 1st which the timing belt fits onto so we'll call that wheel A. another wheel then fits onfront of that which has the teeth for the crank sensor and the belt to run the alternator fits onto it, i'll call that wheel B.

so when only wheel A is on with the timing belt, it turns no probs. As soon as wheel B is fitted and bolted on, it won't turn by hand using the bolt anymore.

[davedew]

There should be a washer between wheel A and the front of the oil pump. If this isn't there when you fit wheel B and do up the bolt, they could all be doing up tight against the front of the engine stopping it from turning. If you can not do the crank bolt up to the correct torgue value without it locking the engine something is wrong, and needs to be resolved before attempting to start the engine. How did you manage to try and start the engine last night if you can not do the bolt up tight?

[brainbug007]

I'll have to check tonight if there's a washer there or not. When I put it back together last night after a few goes of taking the pulley (wheel b) off and loosing the engine again and then putting it back on and it getting stuck that maybe it was designed that way as I had to jam it to be able to loosen the bolt otherwise the engine would just spin counter clockwise. I was just putting a screwdriver through the camshaft pulley to stop is spinning so I could loosen the bolt. So after a few goes of this I decided it must be some sort of design thing and tried putting all the auxillaries back on to give it a go. I figured if it was truely jammed because of something like the washer you've mentioned the starter wouldn't be able to spin the engine same as when the whole thing was hydrolocked because of there being too much oil in the cylinders.

[brainbug007]

I double checked and it definitely won't turn either direction by hand with the pulley fitted. Strangely though even with the pulley off and the bolt done up tight on the cam belt sprocket, it will turn fairly easily??

I took the cam belt off and had a look. the thrust washer looks to on there and pushed up against the back of the cam belt sprocket? I'm sure I did take this off ages ago when I was working on the engine so is there a wrong way to put this back on? I think it has a notch on it for the woodruf key so it can only go on one way?

[vetteman1355]

It may be that the washer has been crushed too much if was tightened beyond the required torque, if you can get someone to measure one and do a comparison might be a good idea.

You could also measure from the surface of the washer to where the nut fits and compare that dimension to the width of the pulley.

Nigel

[davedew]

You say you can fully tighten the bolt with just the cambelt pulley on.

The next thing I would try is leave the cambelt cover off. I know it won't start because the crankshaft position sensor is mounted on it. Then fit the alternator pulley and fully torgue the bolt.

Does the engine still turn over? If yes then the pulley must be catching on the metal cambelt cover and getting stuck. If it still won't turn over there has got to be something wrong with how the pulleys are seating on the crankshaft.

Post up some pictures of the front of the engine and the pulleys if you can for us to take a look at.

[brainbug007]

I tried turning without the cover on 1st as that's how I noticed it wouldn't hand crank with the alternator pulley on. I was going to try and get the cambelt pulley off next to have a look at the washer. If it looks ok I was then thinking of taking the plugs out to remove the compression and bolting on the alternator pulley to see if it would hand turn with no compression and no cambelt to see maybe if the alternator pulley is catching the cambelt somehow? I'll take some pic's tonight and hopefully it'll be somthing obvious. Starting to loose heart now and thinking of ditching the engine and just getting a brand new zetec :(

[robo]

Brainbug lose heart!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont think so:)

Its going to be something very simple.Its all just nuts, bolts and bits of metal but it has to go together in the right order.

Bob

[davedew]

Even with the plugs in it should turn over by hand using a ratchet.
I wouldn't recommend turning over the crankshaft without having the cambelt on and correctly timed as you could touch the pistons on the valves. You wouldn't damage anything just doing it by hand, but it could touch.

If you have done the test I suggested without the cambelt cover then I would say it has got to be something to do with the thrust washer. You will be able to tell which way round it would have been originally by the dirt on it leaving a shadow of the pulley.

[brainbug007]

Ok well I know it definately won't turn with the timing cover off and the cambelt & alternator pulley on so I'll have to get at the thrust washer to have a look. What's a good way to get the cambelt pulley off? Also should there be a washer between the cambelt pulley and the alternator pulley?

[davedew]

The cambelt pulley on the crank should just pull off once the alternator pulley is removed. As I recall there shouldn't be a washer between the two pulleys.

[brainbug007]

Ok well I've been doing a bit of digging and it looks like I may have put the cambelt pulley on back to front as it sounds/looks like there should be a flange on the front to stop the belt slipping off and I think this maybe at the back against the thrust washer at the moment..

[twinturbo]

yes, the flange with the timing notch should ne at the front.

TT

[brainbug007]

Its definetly on the wrong way round then and stuck tight. How do i get it off?

[twinturbo]

3 leg puller.

TT

[brainbug007]

Well I managed to get it off with a screwdriver. Scratched my paint job a bit on the block :( Anyhow I put it on the right way round and it hand cranked much easier now. Hardly any resistance. So I tried putting the alternator pulley back on and started to do the bolt up. It seems I can't do the bolt up really tight without it making hand cranking virtually impossible. So I took it back off and didn't tighten as much and then tried starting it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkPJCcuOID8

[rapidtornado]

result! congrats

I'm still early doors in building mine but just read this whole thread and now can't wait to get mine running as well.... well done on persevering :cool:

Rapid

[ayjay]

Absolutely brilliant to hear you laughing when it started---after all that aggro---
Well done I hope to follow soon:D

[twinturbo]

I love the laugh too...


I remember my first engine swap, a 1.8CVH back in ~1999 on my brotehr inlaws sierra. After doing all the work to replace the poorly engine with and expensive £400! replacement. It would not start. After lots of faffing, charging the battery, cleaning the plugs, putting a 12V feed to the coil and 24hrs.. We almost gave up hope. Then she fired and ran like a dream... I ran up and down the street shouting, cheering and waving the Victory sign at all the neighbours that had given encouragment during the work..


Well done, I think you have probably learnd a vast amount that quit a number of builders probably manage to avoid.

TT