It did start

[robo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkPJCcuOID8

Well done brainbug thank fxxk for that.

Bob

[Twin]

Congratz Bob :D

[Twin]

PS it sounds sick!

[brainbug007]

Tell me about it robo, seems to have taken ages to get there and getting it running. Well worth it in the end though :) Still a bit worried in some ways though as I still can't fully torque up the crankshaft pulley bolt completely without it locking up...

Anyone know if it sounds like it should in limp home mode? I know it's meant to sound rough, especially with no silencer. My dad seemed to think not all the cylinders where firing?

[davedew]

Did sound like it wasn't running on all cylinders. It should idle ok in limp home mode, it just won't rev very well.

Well done on getting it to start. At least you have somewhere to start from now.

[twinturbo]

How much end float is on the crank should be no more than .32mm according to my data. It's possible the flanged thrust bearing on number 3 main bearing has faild alowing the crank to shift forwards and jam. It's just an idea.

TT

[robo]

Not really a lot to get wrong on the front of that engine. Sort of sounds like when the crank bolt is done up the oil pump or front oil seal is is being pulled into. Has the oil pump been off or dismantled, or front oil seal replaced and not driven home?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RivBmYlKyss/SlxXAtintrI/AAAAAAAAA9g/bQg_t46IJrM/s1600-h/engine_cvh.jpg


Bob

[skov]

Just played the vid. My 3 and 5 year old daughters thought it sounded alright - they started raving to it :D

[twinturbo]

That looks like a 1.6, it shows a washer behind the timing pully.

In the official 1.8ICVH Technical Manual there is a washer shown infront of the alternator pully. But I can't see one behind. I am off to check the Haynes.

TT

[twinturbo]

Right, other data mentions the thrust washer and says it should be refitted with the the curved side outwards.

TT

[robo]

An extract from an article.

Bob

The engine is so simple that it's pretty hard to assemble it wrong but despite this the one thing that few people get right is fitting the oil pump. DO NOT try and force this to line up with the sump flange. The oil pump must be central on the crank nose and NOT forced to one side. If you take up all the clearance in the pump gears by trying to align the pump flange with the sump flange then the gears will get smashed by crank vibration and pushed through the side of the pump. Fit the pump loosely and move it from side to side and up and down until you get a feel for the amount of free play between the pump and crank. Then position it as central as you can and nip the bolts up. Any error relative to the sump flange will be sealed fine if you use a bit of silicone on the sump gasket. 9 out of 10 engines that fail soon after rebuild are because the pump breaks due to incorrect fitting. Ford changed the design in 1986 to try and make it a bit more idiot proof but in my experience there is nothing capable of doing quite as much damage to an engine as a really determined idiot.



Edit. This would sort of make sense as the gears would float and center untill the bolts done up then the gears of the pump are stuffed into the oilpump case . Just thoughts.

[twinturbo]

if you need the crank thrust washers they are

finis 6064814 for standard
finis 6064815 .4mm o/s

TT

[twinturbo]

And the crank nose.

http://www.claytune.org.uk/images/stories/general/crank.jpg

6085093 is the finis for the washer item 4.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ok most of all that just went straight over my head! I never touched the oil or water pumps, just took the alternator and cambelt pulleys off. I've no idea when the oil or water pump may have or where ever been changed as the donor had very little in the way of service history.

I can confirm I only have 1 thrust washer which is sitting between the block and cambelt pulley with the raised part of the washer pointing outwards away from the block so to speak.

It does have a rather thick & large washer which sits between the bolt head and the front of the alternator pulley. I guess what seems really weird is I can do the bolt and thick washer up on the crankshaft fairly tight without the alternator pulley on and hand cranking the engine is fairly easy and smooth. Then when the alternator pulley is put on without the bolt done up, again it hand cranks easily with little resistance. It's just when I then start to do the bolt up tightly with the alternator pulley that it get's hard / impossible to hand crank the engine depending of how tight I've done it up. At the moment it's only just hand tightened lightly for the engine to be able to start up like that.

In theory tightening the bolt with the alternator would be either pulling the alternator pulley into the crankshaft or pulling the crankshaft & cambelt pulley out? Also I guess the tension would be spread out across the alternator pulley because of the thick washer?

Out of curiosity I'm guessing it's not a good idea to just run the engine long term with the bolt not fully torqued up? It must be sitting around 20-30nm at the moment vs the 120nm it should be.

[twinturbo]

Ok, We can rule out crank or pump issues.

is the front pully located correctly on the key way? I wonder if the pully is pulling up skew and dragging.

TT

[brainbug007]

As far as I can tell the front pulley is on proprely, its got a notch so it will only really go on one way really.

I started it up again this afternoon and it goes much easier now. I still have to have the choke on though but I guess this is normal with carb engines on coldish days. It doesn't sound as irregular now either on the exhaust strokes. I did an air leak test on the bike manifold using a blow torch with just the gas running (no flame) and moved it around the manifold to see if the engine would pick up. I've definitely got a decent leak at port one and a smallish one at port 3 i think.

I'm not surprised really as it looked slightly warped at one end after I welded it as I don't think I had it clamped down to the jig well enough. Is it considered acceptable to just go round the manifold and squirt a load of something like holymer blue to plug the leaks?

[davedew]

Not sure if holymer is fuel resistant. The correct way is to get the manifold skimmed. If you plan on keeping this setup for a while I would get it machined

[brainbug007]

Ya the blue stuff is fuel resistant, pretty crazy stuff really (http://www.hylomar.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=70) I'm guessing though it'd probly be cheaper to remake the manifold than have it skimmed?

[mark]

Ya the blue stuff is fuel resistant, pretty crazy stuff really (http://www.hylomar.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=70) I'm guessing though it'd probly be cheaper to remake the manifold than have it skimmed?

Its fuel resistant but never sets and the vacuum off the engine will eventually suck it in

As said ideally skim the manifold but if its only slight automotive silicone will seal it

Actually take the manifold off though dont try and seal around it, dont use so much that it squeezes out lots of excess into the manifold when you tighten it down

[twinturbo]

Do you have an inlet gasket? You could try using 2 to add extra squish.

TT

[brainbug007]

Ya its the standard inlet gasket i've got so not very thick. I suppose getting another gasket or just cutting one out of the let over gasket paper I've got is an option :)

I started it up again and video'd it again. It starts up pretty easy now and the oil pressure light goes out straight away. It also doesn't sound like the gaps between the exhaust strokes is as long (doesn't sound like a horse slowly galloping faster). My battery warning light seems to stay on though?

Couple of questions though, at the beginning of the video you can see the bit at the end of the gearbox spinning round, should it when its out of gear?

I also did a capture of the alternator pulley at the front and tried to get a good shot of crankshaft sensor as it's not sitting directly over the teeth on the pulley, there's probly a gap of about 3mm so should it sit directly over it? the cambelt pulley is on as far as it will go without squashing into the thrust washer.

I then tried to rev it a bit manually (no pedal box fitted yet) and it'll rev slightly ok but as soon as I tried to rev it a bit higher it starts to stall? Is this just because the engine hasn't warmed up enough yet (choke is fully on)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YezQJMfioU

[brainbug007]

also does it still sound like not all the cylinders are firing and if so I do work out which one isn't and to resolve?

[mark]

Once its warm (very quick with no coolant in) you wont need the choke, let the choke off and it will help it rev a little, also you can adjust the throttle stop to set the idle

But with airleaks, lean jetting, static timing and no exhaust its never gonna sound good is it! :)

The gearbox spinning is fine and it sounds like its firing on all cylinders to me, my old cvh engine sounded very similar with no exhaust on first start

[twinturbo]

Sounds like it's running fairly well all things considered.

TT

[robo]

Brainbug its a shame you never played for the england team against the frogs the other day;) ;)

Bob

Sounds like it just needs a tinkering with now.

[TheArf]

Did anyone play for England against the French, wish they had beaten France it would have given us an easy path to the final. Come on the boys

Arfon

[baz-r]

yay its alive at last :)