Rover V8

[Ashtonr]

Got my roadster finally registerred a couple of weeks ago and been happily driving it around but I used an Engine from the Donor a 1.8CVH the performance is a liitle disapointing. I have a 3.9 Rover V8 in the garage which appears as if it would fit into the roadster has anyone done this ?

[wylliezx9r]

Being a BEC devotee I would never put an engine that big and heavy-duty into a "light weight" sports car. Wouldn't it be much easier to drop a zetec in ? Chuck some bike carbs on it and you have 170 bhp or thereabouts which is plenty of poke. Obviously further down the road 200 bhp is achievable which is much more than most rover v8's are making.

[Ashtonr]

Already have the V8 though and its made of ally so not to heavy

[deezee]

Rover V8's are actually quite heavy. I know they have quite a lot of aluminium in there, they weigh 230kgs* fully dressed, versus the 117kgs* for your CVH.

*data provided by Westfield owners club

[wylliezx9r]

Rover V8's are actually quite heavy. I know they have quite a lot of aluminium in there, they weigh 230kgs* fully dressed, versus the 117kgs* for your CVH.

*data provided by Westfield owners club

My bike engine is 65 kg with gearbox, obviously I'm not going to get into the debate of engine longevity, torque etc its just staggering the weight that you save. As we all know lighter weight equals better handling.

[HandyAndy]

Got my roadster finally registerred a couple of weeks ago and been happily driving it around

Congratulations on passing the IVA Rob, a huge well done, I remember struggling to get your chassis kit delivered last christmas due to the bad weather, so thats a really quick build indeed :cool:

cheers
andy

[flyerncle]

Your car go for it.

[TheArf]

If the v8 is what you fancy fill your boots mate its' your car have what you fancy

Arfon

[aerosam]

I got a BMW V8 fitted and the ferocity of it is just staggering.

At the end of the day it's your own car which you built, do whatever you want with it!

[Ashtonr]

Thanks Guys, I already built a car with a R1 Engine and its not realy good to drive on the road so though I would try the other extream this time

[baz-r]

as a few have said its your car do what you like
if it was me mind the cheap and easy to fit zetec would be the way to go
im sure the v8 would get you a few quid if sold to buy what ever you liked :D

[Cyberbeej]

I'm all for the rover V8 just because it hasn't been done and if you have the engine already then that would seal it for me.

[robo]

Dont worry about the v8 thing in a roadster, go and have a go in the westie v8 if you want to see what a rover is like in a lightweight
my mate built one with the rover and it was awesome. From about 80mph he could drop it down the box and pin you to the seat for what seemed a lifetime, all in a private driveway of course:rolleyes:
Not for the faint hearted just go for it.

Bob

[michael92]

of course it is possible , anything is possible with imagination and engineering! :D


http://www.seight.com/

[robo]

Exactly, thats what i was thinking when i started my build with a 302 ford v8, which sits in chassis mule like it grew there.

Bob

[wylliezx9r]

Thinking of mad engine ideas, what happened to eternal who was putting a sky line straight 6 in his ?

[twinturbo]

He's not been on Since May 6th...

TT

[Talonmotorsport]

Exactly, thats what i was thinking when i started my build with a 302 ford v8, which sits in chassis mule like it grew there.

Bob

I'll be wanting that soon...

[7ishNZ]

I have just replaced the 2006 R1 engine in my roadster with a Toyota 3sgte 2 ltr turbo mated to a 6 speed Altezza gearbox.
http://www.lotus7.co.nz/forum/download/file.php?id=1030
Everything fitted in nicely, and it is a pleasure to drive both on the road and the track. I have found it turns in better on the track with the heavier engine, but it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the R1 did!.
I also went for a few laps as a passenger in a Rover V8 powered 7.... understeer city! As you turn in, the howling from the tyres increases, but it doesn't go round the corner....

Stick with a powerful 4 cylinder.. they work well in the roadster chassis..

[robo]

Thats got to be due to set up because my mates westie was the opposite of that , if anything it was a bit to keen to oversteer. I am sure with a little time anything like that could be overcome.

Bob

[7ishNZ]

Certainly the V8 has massive power-on oversteer...

[robo]

That toyota engine is not much different in weight than the rover.


for shipping purposes

3sgte + trans _ manifolds/turbo

trans = 125-150lbs
block+head = 350lbs
manifolds/turbo = 125lbs +/-

total around 625lbs+/-

Thats from a forum so not sure how accurate.

The only thing i did not like about the westie v8 was that the engine was mounted forward a lot to get the bellhousing to clear the gear tunnel. I am going with a smaller flywhell and bellhousing combo on my installation so the engine is only about 10mm from the bulkhead. That puts it about 5" further back than with the full size bellhousing . Picture here of a westie v8 look at picture at the bottom of the page to see how far forward the engine is http://www.seight.com/mbuild2.html



Bob

[7ishNZ]

Not to sure about those weights... 125lbs for manifolds?? From my info, the complete 3s engine is 15kgs heavier than a 4age, and you can mount it way back in the chassis.

The idea of these cars is that you put whatever engine you want in it... it's all about the fun!

[robo]

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Camry 1mz weighs in @ 401 lbs, the 3 vz weighs in @ 469 lbs. From what I've been told the 1mz is 40 lbs lighter than a 3sg-te, so your'e looking at 440 lbs. Not sure if that includes all the plumbing associated with the 3sg-te.

Above from another forum.


That is as heavy as the rover so to get the handling back on track all that needs to be done is to shove it back and get it as low as possible and all will be well. Simples.
Also n/a 200hp 2ltr is getting nasty in terms of being street friendly, the rover could be nearly 300hp and still be a nice tractable street engine.

Bob

[mk1]

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Camry 1mz weighs in @ 401 lbs, the 3 vz weighs in @ 469 lbs. From what I've been told the 1mz is 40 lbs lighter than a 3sg-te, so your'e looking at 440 lbs. Not sure if that includes all the plumbing associated with the 3sg-te.

Above from another forum.


That is as heavy as the rover so to get the handling back on track all that needs to be done is to shove it back and get it as low as possible and all will be well. Simples.
Also n/a 200hp 2ltr is getting nasty in terms of being street friendly, the rover could be nearly 300hp and still be a nice tractable street engine.

Bob

Hi guys,

Im in progress with this one. Currently bespoke building the chassis to take the SD1 engine and gearbox.... its very tight! (the gearbox tunnel needs redesigning if you want to use the SD1 box). I know there are lighter engine gearbox combinations but its a personal thing.

Be interested in how your build / mod goes.

Keep in touch

Martyn

[robo]

I am using the ford v8 not the rover , has the same install problems though. I have made up a flywheel using a diesel mitzi shogun ring gear <12" diameter> That takes a tvr twin plate clutch. Engine has a back plate with the mitzi reduction gear starter, that just leaves me to make or modify the getrag 265 bellhousing.or buy one of these http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTROAr1yjjgxMGr1fbGQEjiwBGfSddi0 vZzgA6zggQeyYo8wzX6Dw All this allows the lump to go back without altering the gear tunnel. Also the top of the cylinder heads are only 40mm above the top side rail of the chassis, there is also loads of room for the headers and steering column.Cant see the rover being much different other then its about 4" taller. Here is a v8 locost http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhNUG3t3NRU and something scary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqCnMahHGbk
Bob

[mk1]

I am using the ford v8 not the rover , has the same install problems though. I have made up a flywheel using a diesel mitzi shogun ring gear <12" diameter> That takes a tvr twin plate clutch. Engine has a back plate with the mitzi reduction gear starter, that just leaves me to make or modify the getrag 265 bellhousing.or buy one of these http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTROAr1yjjgxMGr1fbGQEjiwBGfSddi0 vZzgA6zggQeyYo8wzX6Dw All this allows the lump to go back without altering the gear tunnel. Also the top of the cylinder heads are only 40mm above the top side rail of the chassis, there is also loads of room for the headers and steering column.Cant see the rover being much different other then its about 4" taller. Here is a v8 locost http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhNUG3t3NRU and something scary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqCnMahHGbk
Bob

Thanks Rob,

Keep in touch with the build, maybe we can compare notes.

Best regards,

Martyn

[Ashtonr]

Well it fits into the engine bay ok and more or less clears the bonnet and the nose cone but the steerings in the way of the exhaust manifold theres only approx 40mm between the actual port and the steering column. Have any of you other V8 builders had this problem ?

[robo]

The steering shaft on mine cant go straight down to the steering rack. I have mounted a bearing down the front to allow the first section of shaft to run parallel with the engine. Also I have got the engine a bit lower, flywheel at 12" diameter < 300mm for the kids> and the sump reduced to 6". The engine mounted so there is only an inch <25mm> under the car. That was the max most of the forum members recommended. hope this helps.

Bob

[Wynand]

That toyota engine is not much different in weight than the rover.

for shipping purposes

3sgte + trans _ manifolds/turbo

trans = 125-150lbs
block+head = 350lbs
manifolds/turbo = 125lbs +/-

total around 625lbs+/-


Im also using the 3SGTE motor (series 2) in my build and did weight it on commercial electronic scale and here are the figures for complete installation with gearbox;

1. Engine - complete block, top and sump unit = 105 kg (235lbs)
2. CT26 Turbo unit complete = 12.4 kg (28lbs)
3. Complete inlet manifold and TB ex factory = 6.8 kg (15lbs)
4. Flywheel = 6.9 kg (15lbs)
5. W58 Toyota gearbox = 35 kg (78lbs)
6. Bellhousing = 4.4 kg (10lbs)
7. Exhaust manifold (tubular) est. to be made = ~7 kg (15lbs)
--------------------
Total weight 177.5 kg (398lbs)

Only the starter and alternator weights should be added.

The 4AGE 20 valve motor with gearbox weigh in at 157kg. Add the 15kg difference 7ishNZ mentioned and the sum is now 172kg. Close enough.
That said, the ex factory inlet manifold get replaced by a custom plenum unit that is low and compact and will weigh considerably less than the long ram std unit.

Interesting; for the 15kg weight difference between the 4AGE (115 kw) and 3SGTE (185 kw) the difference in factory std power is about 70kw (94hp) not to mention the big torque and shove of a turbo.
It is also a well known fact that the Japanese kw rating (115kw) for the blacktop 4 AGE is very optimistic and about 105kw max is more to the truth measured against "normal" units....
Then again, more power is easily available from the 3SGTE by just a turn or two on the waste gate valve from the std 9psi factory setting. Many run between 12 - 17psi for some wicked performance.

As for shipping weight: if complete motor is bought it will have the inter-cooler on-board, so the aircon pump, power steering pump and some heavy cast iron monstrosity that acts as exhaust (about 20kg) manifold. But still the weight should be quite less than mentioned.

Finally, I personally believe the 3SGTE is a better bet than a Rover V8. It will outperform is easily on any given day in std form, more easily to tweak (boost) with minimum effort and nothing beats that turbo push when its on the boil :cool: As for lag - without boost it is still a 2 liter engine with 8.8 to 1 compression ration in a 600kg (or less) car and still be decently fast up to about 2700rpm when big horses are awakened for blistering pace.
And it use much less fuel than the V8 driven moderately;)

[robo]

I am not knocking the toyota installation and the weights quoted came from the toyota forum, yours might be more by the time you fit the clutch and all the rest of the associate bits that goes with it . Its just that if a rover is what you have go for it. i have had the fortune or misfortune of being in a stock efi engined rover powered westie and believe me when driven in anger they are a serious piece of kit.The upside of the rover is cost, they are every where for lesss than the price of a weeks groceries and tune for peanuts.One of our customers had a 3.9 r/r with a noisy cam and went to real steel to get the gear to sort it, while there one of the guys talked him into a stage oneish cam a new oil pump and friggable fuel pressure reg. We shoved it all together for him and the difference was unreal. I dont think he had spent £300 and now for that reason i like the rover. It might be that I am old and stupid.

bob

[Ashtonr]

Bob do you have any pictures of your steering setup ? I was thinking of cutting up the exhaust manifold and rewelding so it exits at the top but if I can reroute the steering I might get away with the stock manifold. I havn't realy worried about the sump level at the moment as i have a deep Range rover sump but there are shallower obne availalbe which are used on the westfield setups.

Rob

[robo]

I am getting the camera out, I will try to get the hang of it and see if I can post some pics. l seem to have one hell of of a game down loading to this site.

Bob

[Ashtonr]

Thanks Bob if you cant upload to the forum I will give you my email address and you could just send directly to that

Rob