i typed it out for another forum ages ago but saved it in notepad as i knew it would be usefull one day.

cracking on got the rad today so that will be going on this weekend. i have got about 10 jobs left on the list to do before i can sand blast and paint the chassis. then its on to floor and body pannels, pipes and wires, fuel tank, running gear, engine..............sod it i can't be bothered to type any more.

Generally - RHS (Rolled Hollow Section) is considered as a structural steel and as such will be less less strict tolerances then ERW (Electric Resistance Welded) or CDS (Cold Drawn Seamless). RHS will normally come in the 'black' form straight out of the mill whereas the others are likely to have been cold rolled and/or pickled to get rid of the scale. For our applications, the existance of the weld does not really make any difference. Typically ERW is so good nowadays that if you cut the tube and look at the weld under a microscope it is very difficult to distinguish the difference between the weld and the parent metal. Where you often will find differences will be when it comes to using these 'hollow' sections for pressurised pipework - as ERW ahs a lower 'joint' factor than CDS which reduces the overall pressure rating of the pipe - guess what I've been doing at work recently :p Interestingly, I did some work comparing the cost of ERW and CDS for a job at work and found there was no clear difference between the two, for some stuff one was cheaper than the other and for others the reverse applied. One other thing to bear in mind when ordering is that the tube is typically supplied in 'random' lengths - these are between 5.7m and 6.1m - it is easy to get caught out by this and assume they are 6m lenghts - been there done that :rolleyes:

Cheers

Dave

Interestingly, or maybe not, Our Euro/British standard friends seem to have now standardised on the term Tube for any fluid/gas conveyance tubing!

Thanks for a very very useful post, now I know what I'm looking for.

The other welding question.

It would appear that the Sarf Efriken sevenesque people look with disdain on any form of welding except TIG. To them TIG is the the holy grail AND the only remotely acceptable way to weld a chassis. Yes TIG makes very pretty welds, but do we need to be that anally retentive?

I dont think we do need to be that analy retentive. As if you're welding properly then the material should break before the weld does.

i started of with the mig on my chassis then wnet to tig then back to mig as the tig was to slow for someone impatient like me.

i only crack the tig out for little jobs like closing up the ends of the chsaais tubes these days. oh and it will come out again to do the ali fuel tank.

Hi, just a thought,
is it true that tig produces a more brittle weld than mig because of the intesity and concetration of tig welding?
I was told this by a fabricator years ago.
Ray:)

Done properly it's better as you can control the heat you are putting in as well as the filler rod, where mig is more brutal but then hairy chickens legs against bald mole legs:confused:

I would have used my tig for some of it but couldnt justify the argon bottle hire price and i get my co2 for a £1 a kilo.:)

Well i've just ordered 6m of 25x25 16 gauge square hollow section. It came to a grand total of £22 :eek: Im hoping that its going to be the ERW stuff so that i know that that what im welding is the same stuff that the chassis is made of, i think i'll have a practise with it first and then make myself a welding trolley for my arc welder, mask and rods.

WH Smith have finally posted my build guide and i should have it in the next few days.

at that price your better off buying the steel precut from armoto. p.s motor world sell the book for £15 rather than the rrp of £18

Yeah im going to see if HandyAndy's supplier will deliver to me, if not i could get it delivered to him and drive down and collect it if he's alright with that.

I've had a go arc welding the tube, it doesnt seem too hard, with a bit of practice i recon i could have it cracked.

I managed to get the book for £11.51 from WH Smith, its also £12.50 on amazon with free delivery.

If you are new to stick welding try and do as many welds on the flat rather than vertical as that's where it gets tricky

A nice spell of overhead welding with the stick is great fun :eek: :D

That is why I sport a Friar Tuck hair cut :D :o

Pipe welding on site where you can't turn the pipe or get at it very well oh and it's ideal if the fuel oil running thru it stays in it afterwards...blowing a gale and chucking it down with rain just to make it interesting:mad:

I once had to cut out the cargo pumping lines from a ship that was used to transport molasses. :rolleyes:

We used gas axes. Boy did those pipes spit & fart :eek:

I got my wormate a beauty.

He was bending over the cut end of a pipe, removing some brackets. When I cut through the pipeworwk further downline, the resulting flash got him right up the Jacksy :D :D

I've done a little bit before using some 6mm flat bar which was easy peasy. I've just learned why you shouldnt weld near flamable object though, 1 ruined car sponge later lol.

Although i have another issue now. My dad says there wont be enough space to have both the car and the crap he's put in there as i just have a single garage. Would someone be able to give me the dimensions of the completed car so i can try and prove him wrong?

Hi, just spoke to my steel supplier who said he can,t deliver to your area but you would be welcome to send a courier firm to collect on your behalf, or have it delivered to me & you collect from my place. confirmed prices as of 2 minutes ago are
25mm x 25mm ERW 16gauge = £ 9.72 per 6mtrs
19mm x 19mm ERW 16gauge = £ 7.94 per 6mtrs
delivery charge to me = £ 17.25

all above prices include VAT.
they will cut it in half at no extra cost.

let me know if you want to order.
cheers
andy

Cheers for that andy. I think i'll want to order in a few months once i've got everything planned and some money together.

Does anyone know where i can get a cheap 240-110V transformer, my chop has just arrived and im needing to sorce a transformer for it?

That is a very good price for the steel Andy :cool: Well cheaper than my local stockist.


Tatey

110V Transformers are often to be had cheaply on ebay. ;)

If you want to buy a new one have a look at Machine Mart the prices are not too bad :)

Linky

Tatey,if you are in Newcastle upon Tyne, pm and I will give you a good supplier and they deliver.

Im 15 miles outside of newcastle towards hexham. How cheap are they? Are you currently building a roadster?

Yes to Roadster and I think less than quoted on here previously.Can find out if you need.Near Blaydon in Gateshead.

PM'd you

Did you say you're in Blaydon or the firm is in Blaydon? As i picked the 6m of steel up from Franklin Steel in Blaydon earlier on.

I am near Blaydon,Franklin were too expensive.

Ah ok. Which firm was it that you bought you're steel from? How far are you with your build?

Can I suggest that if you dont think you will use the mig welder after you have finished the build that you can easily sell it for most of your money back.

Shame I'm so far away as could offer a "hire me mig" service it's a single phase Cebora 186 stag and sits idle, in fact it hasn't even been connected back up since I moved workshops back in November 08...:o Not for sale though as had it 9 years and works spotty dog.

Of the many local steel suppliers I sent e-mails to, the only one who got back to me is the one who supplies to the folks who makes chassis locally. (If I'd known it was them I would have worded my mail very differently.) Anyways, they're saying I'm wasting money buying the ERW, He says that RHS in 1.6mm is quite acceptable.:confused:

That said, our RHS does seem to be very square and quite uniform in terms of thickness.

Maybe just a spot of clarification, as I understand RHS it is a hot rolled induction welded tube Whilst ERW is cold rolled. I am quite prepared to accept that I have it all wrong.:(

So right now I am as confused as can be, please help and use small simple words.;)

Personally i would much prefer to trust Chris and the Haynes name and over prepair, compared to someone from a steel company.

Chris seems to have done a lot of work getting the car to where it is now.

And would you really want to risk buying inferior steel for a car that you and another people would be in?

Would you be able to live with yourself knowing that you might have injured/killed someone close to you because you wanted to save a few £'s?

No argument with any of these points, just having trouble sourcing the good stuff locally.

The reason i quoted Chris' post was cause he didn't specify the wall of the RHS that would make it heavier. As I understand RHS and ERW have the same density.

So the question I didn't ask (I plead lack of sleep), Is it the RHS thats heavier or more dense or is it because of the wall thickness that the RHS would be heavier and more likely to break than deform?

However at the end of the day the above is all academic as I am still hunting down a supplier for ERW, there has to be a couple of them here in SA.

Edit to add: Does this appear to be the right stuff? http://www.robor.co.za/cold_rolled_tube.htm

Robor looks as good a place as any to get your steel from. Check out the DIN specs and BS specs on google.

Just rang up a local a local steel stockist recommended by flyerncle. Got quoted the following:

£10.85 per 6.1m - 25x25 16swg ERW
£6.45 per 6.1m - 19x19 16 swg ERW
£8.05 per 6.1m - 19mm diameter bar

So comes to a straight £100. Well pleased with that price.

A decent price is that ;)

That is more than £50 cheaper than the last quote I had from my local stockist. :eek: :confused:

Don't be stingy when buying the sqare tube

7 lengths of 25x25 & 3 lengths of 19x19 ought to be about right. The jigs use away to some of the 25x25 & you wouldn't be human if you did not have the odd cock up when cutting the steel.

Best pay for delivery once ;)

Would I lead you astray....?

Sorry to resurrect this thread - maybe I should have PM'ed Land Locked.

Land Locked .. did you manage to source some ERW. I had the same problem a few years back and just used RHS but Chris does present a powerful argument, I must say.

Cheers.

Flux, sadly not yet. Not a huge problem as I'm still trying to get the time to clear the workshop.(should have comfortable parking 4 three cars and all the benches, lucky to get one in at the moment):(

The local guys keep asking what it's for and then insist that the hot rolled is more than adequate.(buggers) I may well end up getting a chassis pack off e-bay.

I'll make a few enquiries and let you know what I dig up but I've got a sinking feeling I'll also be forced to get an Ebay chassis pack.

I hear you. I absolutely hate the so called engineering shops and steel suppliers down here. Either they have'nt got a clue to what I'm talking about or am totally disinterested in providing assistance. I always end up shipping stuff in from Port Elizabeth and/or Cape Town.