Steering
 

I'm trying to finish this part off and struggling a little so hopefully someone can help! For some reason the only place I can put my steering rack is all the way over on the nearside rather than in a central position as per the book. If it's not all the way over to the nearside, the steering extension fouls on the diagonl chassis rail :( Because of having to put it all the over to the nearside, I end up having to let the track rod extension out pretty much all the way from the rack on the offside to compensate. On top of that I have to almost turn the rack slightly off center with the steering wheel so to speak. I'd imagine I wouldn't be able to go full lock to lock as the rack itself isn't completely centered (I presume the trackrod would stop it turning further). So anyone have any idea where i'm likely to have gone wrong or if it will be ok like this and go thru iva?

Bump steer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob

forgive my newbieness but bump steer??

As near as poss the ball joints on the ends of the rack should intersect with the top and bottom wishbone fulcrum points. As suspension goes up and down there should in theory be no affect on the steering geometry.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...5R94akKxHGBbEQ

By shoving the rack over you are in affect making one steering arm long and one short.

Bob

Bummer, didn't think that would work. So I guess the culprit is likely to be the diagonal is too far over into the engine bay?? Did a bit of digging and thinking and I wonder if my problem is my column is out of a later sierra with power steering which has a different shape at the end and the spline to fit onto the rack is different because of this. Apparently earlier sierra columns without power steering have a spline which fits straight onto an escort rack. I had to get one of these http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product...ducts_id=13580 and part of the problem originally was the part that connects onto the column fouls on the diagonal :(

The old Mini steering rack spline is the same as the Escort Mk2 and you can use that rubber coupling - very similar to the Sierra's. Before I found a suitable Sierra one, I had a Mini one I planned to use instead....

I believe the old Mini's are like the plague in Brittain or are they all scrapped by now?

Unless they have a triangle end then it won't really attach to the column though :( I was thinking would it work to increase the height / angle of the rack mount to get the rack a bit higher to give me more clearance as the diagonal slopes outward so to speak?

Why put the triangle end at the steering rack?
The triangle end attach to the steering side of things. I had recently installed my steering unit (442E chassis) using Sierra column and Escort Mk2 rack. Here is a link how I did mine if you missed it. http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6843

Problem is it's a triangle shape at both ends of the column so to speak so I've got bendable coupling at the top like you have in http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/attac...9&d=1313167124 but then i have a similar coupling at the bottom at the rack end (which has the escort spline on it). Also your chassis appears a bit different (must be because of being a 442e) in the front as your diagonals that can be seen in http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/attac...8&d=1313167107 sit much closer to the outside of the chassis compared to the book spec ones. I do like how your rack mount looks though as it's kind of what I had in mind in terms of changing the height/angle of the rack slightly to clear the diagonals better.

Post some pictures of your chassis / steering setup so we can have a look and see what the problem is.

Will do later when I get home. I've cut the rack mount back out now & will have to remake it. I made it originally to book spec not realizing there was something in the amended one in the annoucements but with my book being fairly new, I would have though it would include these changes? From what I've gleaned from reading around, the arms of the rack should be level with where they'll connect onto the hubs and not go at an upward/downard angle if you look at it from the front of the car. However, should it also be a straight line from the rack out to where it connects onto the hub?

I,ve been following this thread & am a little confused to whats causing the problems :confused:
as dave has suggested photo,s would be good :)

With regard the column extension going past the diagonal...to solve this I made my extension "stepped" so that as it passes that diagonal it gives plenty of clearance .

I,ve used a group 4 coupling at the rack end & then used the triangular Ford part at the upper part of the column extension to where it joins the column that goes thru the bulkhead ( not sure if that makes sense :o )

cheers
andy

I guess in a nut shell I'm stuck on how to position my rack so it doesn't foul on the diagonal and I don't end up with bad bump steer? Not sure what you mean about a stepped extension, could you post a pic of it as it may be the solution I need :) For the coupling, it sounds like I may have got the wrong one.. I'm guessing you've used one of these http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product...oducts_id=7333. I understand that one end will have a spline that goes onto the rack, but what I don't get is how you connect the extension onto this as the end of my extension has a triangle shape? (hence why I used the sierra->escort coupling).

Attached are a couple od pictures of my steering.

The first is the upper section of the steering columns. The triangular part is uppermost in the pictures.



The next picture shows the cut and extended lower section of the standard Sierra column. The end that fits the triangular section is uppermost with the splied coulping at the other end.

The bit of tube I used to extend it was a piece of seamless tube left over from the lower wishbones. It gets close to the diagonal, 3-4mm. But it doesn't touch and that is all that matters.

Dave beat me too it, nice one Dave.
Mines the same as Daves at the upper end ( triangular part ) but my lower end of the extension doesn,t have the rubber coupling as i,ve changed mine to the group4 coupling.




Yes , thats the coupling i,ve used in conjunction with a splined shaft from Rally Design. so imagine the order of placement as this ......

rack....group4 coupling....splined shaft ( fits the coupling splines ).....thick walled tubing......once passed the diagonal U2 ......more slightly thicker walled tubing ( this is my meaning of stepped :o )......the triangular Ford part with the rubber coupling cut off......then the triangular clamp end fits onto the collapsible part of the column that goes thru the bulkhead.


I,ll try and find a pic and post it up.

When you say "diagonal" ... I presume you mean part "U2" ?

The placement of the rack itself shouldn,t cause a problem if parts CP19,20 & 21 have been welded into the correct postion.

cheers
andy

That's pretty much how I did mine dave, the only thing that I changed was the coupling on the end with the spline as the spline off mine was too big to fit onto the escort rack. hence why I bought the sierra->escort coupling off rally design. but i think the rack position must have been wrong somehow to cause the extension and coupling with the spline fouling on the diagonal?

here,s mine fitted into the chassis.




you can just about see the group 4 coupling at the rack end, the upper end is as per Daves pictures.

Ok this is maybe where I've gone wrong then. The bendable bits are called univeral joints I think? Well I've got two of those in my setup where as yours seems to only have one? Mine kind of goes rack -> escort/sierra coupling from rd -> extension -> top coupling (both inputs are triangle shapped, this came off my donor) -> steering column/wheel. this crude picture may help..

I have the group4 coupling at the rack end & the original Ford coupling at the bulkhead end ( but as with previously mentioned...the rubber coupling from the original Ford column where it used to attach to the rack removed & the triangular coupling part welded into my extension, as per this pic below)



hope this helps
cheers
andy

Ya I think so, it sounds like if I get a group 4 coupling and one of these http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product...ducts_id=11805 I could just re-make my extension as this splined steering column shaft would just go inside the extension to be welded up and it has a smaller outside diameter than the extension tube? (I used 25.4mm od I think). Then I guess all I need to do is get the rack back in the right position so that when the trackrods are connected to the hubs, the rack arms are level and let out an equal amount on both sides?

yes,
well thats how I,ve done mine, but its NOT the only way to achieve the desired result .
there has been other builders using a different bearing carrier thru the bulkhead.... I think Ash G has some pics of how he did his in his build photos link.
Just an after thought......which steering rack extensions are you using ? if its the ones detailed in the book, they are wrong( too long ) & makes the wheels point left & right at same time :eek: .

cheers
andy

Oh great, I hope that's not part of my problem! I got them from saturn about 4-6 months ago? I'm not as worried about how it goes thru the bulkhead as that part seems to be ok. Slightly related though, is there an easy way to tell when the rack is 1/2 way between lock to lock (centered so to speak) as hopefully this will help tell if I've got it right?

The rack extensions from Saturn will be correct ;)

Depends on the rack you have 2.9 or 2.4 ( known as a quick rack ).....just turn the splined bit of the rack from lock to lock & count the number of turns required then go back half the number .

But its easy to re center if using a group 4 coupling as you can just undo it & adjust it on the splines on the rack/group4 coupling in relation to centering your steering wheel to the rack center point.

Hope it gets sorted for you.

cheers
andy

Ok good to know the saturn ones will be right :) I'm pretty sure my rack is 2.9 but I got it off another forum member who was selling up so I can't be sure. When it was all still attached, it took more like 3.5 turns of the wheel for lock to lock though :S Thanks a ton though for all the help, hopefully I can get it sorted so I can go back to working on the engine :)

The rack ratio is normally measured lock to lock 2.2 ,2.4,2.9 etc so at 3.5 it sounds like a standard rack.

Bob

Fair enough, it was cheap at £50 so that's probly why. I forgot to take the pictures I took last night off my phone so I'll try and do that over the weekend so you all can see what I mean. I started cutting a new rack mount and checked my book vs the amendments in the announcements and the bend angle was different but the other measurements was the same. I think from memory the book had something like 130 degrees vs the 108 degrees in the revised one so I'm hoping this well help resolve the problem. I've also ordered a group 4 coupling and one of the splined shafts from rally design to hopefully get me round the upright/diagonal tube that's causing the problem.

Right finally got round to sorting a photobucket account and got some pictures of this.

here's the original extension with the sierra->escort coupling that was fowling:




So I got one of the splined shafts and group four couplings andy suggested and it fits much better than before although I still had to move the rack about 0.5cm to the right of the book position

Looking at your photos, I can't help but get the feeling that U1 & U2 are a tad too far in at the bottom ?

This would certainly explain your clearance issues.

Like I say, just a sneaky feeling as it is very hard to tell from a picture :)

Here is a picture of my steering set up.

Have a good bit of clearance & will have a good deal more once I ditch the round tube extension & replace it with a piece of solid round bar.

Ignore the radiator, that was a Micra one & has since been replaced with the better VW Polo one ;)

I suspected that would be the case but can't face cutting them out and trying to redo or starting with a new chassis so I'll have to see how I get on when the car is running :(

Here's a better visual representation of U1 & U2 placement.

I deliberately left those just tacked in place untill the steering & suspension brackets were aligned ;)

Took this route after reading a good few posts Re: Packing out the suspension brackets :)

Gosh yours looks like a work of art compared to mine! Your welds are hardly visable compared to my molehills :(

had a little looky at yor pics and there is a tight ish clearence on the u1/2 to steering shaft on mine but it has a gap on mine i also had to ad packers on my suspension brackets as i set mine a tiny bit too far in.
idealy it would be best to leave them until the suspension brackets and i think its tricky to get the placement right
iirc the front top should stick out the side of the tr tubes and be trimed of after tacking
i thort in a little was better as i could pack out than too far out

its also handy to get your rack set in the right hight and level first it is real importent for the steering