It won't start
 

So I've got all my leaks sorted now except for the radiator. I've got the bike carbs mounted and the fuel line fitted. Bike pump runs and charges up the pressure (ran for about 30 secs slowing down till it stopped). I held the throttle open slightly with a screwdriver and tried to start the engine. It cranks and you can hear what sounds like air being released but doesn't start up. After letting it crank a bit then turning the key off, I tried again. Still no joy and after a few minutes of trying this the battery seemed to die as the battery light on the dash got really dim while cranking and it sounded like it was really struggling to crank. I took the battery off thinking it must just not have had enough charge and sure enough it was empty when I connected it up to the charger. I left it for a couple of hours till it had a good charge and tried again but with no luck. So I'm guessing enough fuel/air mixture isn't getting through from the carbs into the head or I've got no spark. Any ideas what I can check to get it going? (note I'm running a 1.8 CVH CFi with a bike carb conversion so it's distributor-less and trying to start it up in limp home mode with only the edis and no megajolt)

Take a spare spark plug, pop it in the end of one of the plug leads, then connect a jump lead from the metal thread of the plug to the negative on the battery.

Turn it over and see if you get a spark.

TT

Ok so I don't have a spare spark plug. Noob question but are they all the same size etc as I'll need to go buy one from somewhere.. I suppose if i need to replace them I'll need a tool to get them out like http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...d=0CLsBEPMCMAc ?

I take it you havnt taken them out already then if you have no tool to do it!

You may have damaged them when you had the head off if they were left in place

Definately get a tool, get a new set of plugs and then check for spark, a local motor factors will sort you out

It should fire really easy, even in limp mode, mine fired first go

You probably have damaged plugs or no spark or possibly both!

If the engine has been standing for some time you may be short of compression due to the lack of oil in the rings . Try a squirt of oil down the plug ports then spin over a bit before putting plugs back in (having checked for spark).
Its worked for me in the past.;)

Remember to check that you have oil pressure before you start it up once you get the spark sorted

Ya the plugs are the original donor ones and where left in thru removing the engine and taking the head off to fix the gasket leak.

How do I check I have oil pressure though? I have the pressure sensor connected and the light comes on the dash but that won't go out till the engine is running?

Also, are all spark plugs the same size so I don't need to worry about getting the wrong size or wrong size tool for removing them?

I would invest in an oil pressure gauge there worth there weight and will tell you if something is wrong before your engine lets go

there's usualy 3 sizes of car spark plug.

If you want to confirm spark, pull off a lead, rest a screwdriver inside the lead so that it touches the internal conductor and find somwhere else that allows the shaft to me 2-3mm away from a clean metal component of the engine. You should get a spark from the shaft of the screwdriver to the engine.

TT

If you turn it over for long enough with oil in, the light should go out (without fuel or spark at this point, but with plugs fitted)

Just ask for spark plugs for a 1.8cvh and then a plug socket to suit

You will probably need some choke to get it to start. Mine took a few goes to start in limp home mode to begin with.

The air noise you can hear could be the manifold leaking. If it isn't perfectly flat after you welded it up, it might not be sealed against the head correctly

If its not even spluttering then it sounds like your not getting any spark. I've started an engine with no exhaust, no gasket on the carbs and running limp home (10 deg BTDC) and it started fine. Ran rough as an old dog... but still started.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm going to try twin's screwdriver method tonight to see if I've got a spark. The battery should be nice and full by then after charging all last nite and today to rule that out. If I've got a spark then I'll try putting some oil down the plug holes like ajay suggested and turn it over a bit to get it nice and oiled up.

I'm guessing with all of my attempts so far I should be getting close to building up enough pressure for the oil lamp to go out indicating the oil pressure has built up enough? But taking the plugs out to put some oil down will reset the pressure?

Dave when you say a bit of choke, is that different to holding the throttle open a bit? (I've got a screwdriver holding it open between a 1/8 and 1/4 as I don't have a throttle cable or choke cable fitted yet).

By opening the choke to introduce more fuel into the engine making it easier to start. By opening the throttle the way you have you might be leaning the mixture making it more difficult to start.

I would shut the throttle and open the choke and see what happens. You can always adjust the throttle stop screw to set the idle speed higher.

whislt the plugs are out and if your not replacing them, give them a clean with some wire wool.

Pouring oil down the bores is nothing to do with oil preasure, it's purely to try and raise compression if the rings are thought to be letting combustion past. I would imagine it would be firing anyway but a little badly.

Dirty, damp plugs is a prime suspect if there is a spark. Or Static timing.

If your drawing fuel you should smell it on the plugs.

TT

Any idea where the choke will be on the carbs and what it looks like?

In the picture you sent me of your carbs, it is the brass coloured slide at the top of the picture with a spring attached to it. You slide it to the right in the picture to turn the choke on.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/...7/IMAG0048.jpg

You will probs need to connect this up on a choke cable once you are all sorted too, my st motor starts fine with no choke but my cvh liked the choke from cold

CBS do one that locks when you twist it

You will need some bigger jets in eventually too, my cvh was initially on standard zx6r jets and it was dangerously lean up in the rev range

Ended up with 175s or 180s cant remember which was best now on the rollers, both safe but one gave a touch more power

I might have a few sets of jets in the garage that will suit, i will pm if i find any

The standard ones were in mine at iva as it was only driven around the car park and sailed through emmisions

Nice one, thanks for the info mark. If you got some jets that you don't need, I'd definately be interested. Like you said though, it sounds like it maybe better to leave fitting the bigger ones till post iva though. I tried turning it over again tonight after the battery being left to charge all night & day. Still the same thing, a slow crank with a sort of wheezing sound. The neighbor walked by at the time and he reckons the battery is shot as he seemed to think it should spin up alot faster than it is. I guess it's a bad sign really when the battery is flat and the charger shows it being full again with 20 mins...

So I probly need a new battery now but I'm gonna try and jump start it off my daily driver tomorrow to see.

One thing though, if I do need a new battery, the donor one had holes thru the terminals so the connections bolted onto the terminals. I haven't seen a modern battery with holes in the terminals like this before so is there some sort of adapter I can get to be able to bolt the connections onto a modern battery from somewhere like halfords?

Also if I go get a new one, what sort of amp rating am I looking for to be able to start a cvh like this?

I got an odyssey pc680 from ebay, only small but more than upto the job of a kitcar

A little pricey, but nice and light and can be mounted in any position

You can buy normal round clamp on terminals if you want to change to a battery not specified for the sierra

Right I worked on this a bit more today and got a bit farther but it still won't fire :( I managed to eventually get the spark plugs out, they where in really tight...

I then put a new battery on (640 amps) and fitted a new plug onto an ht lead and tried to fire it to see if I got a spark. I didn't :( So I tried connecting various other bits of the loom and eventually found that for some reason the fan switch has to be connected to get a spark?

So with the spark plugs removed, I put a bit of oil down each plug hole (maybe a couple of tablespoons worth in each plug). I then turned it on to help work the oil into the pistons and it spins round nice and fast.

Next I put all the new plugs in properly and connected the HT leads. I then tried to start it again and now it doesn't even spin at all. You can hear the starter motor struggling trying to spin the flywheel but nothing.

Any ideas what to do next??

Sounds like its hydrauliced.
Take the plugs back out and give it a spin for a few seconds.

Bob

too much oil.

You may need to soak it up.

TT

How can I soak up the excess oil?

I tried taking the plugs back out and it still wouldn't turn again. I checked the battery and it'd gone dead! Does trying to start the engine like this drain the battery really quickly as I didn't think a brand new battery would die so quickly after 10 or so attempts to start?

take all plugs out, put rag over (not in) plug holes and spin over the engine will get enough oil out
then check too see if your engine will turn over by hand with a wrench
befor you put the plugs in
seems a bit odd to me if your battery keeps going flat ther is no smoke leeking out of your loom anywhere is there?:D like you have some form of short in it
a big spark would be a give away when you conect it up to the battery
or it may only be shorted with the ign on possibly

I've not noticed any smoke coming out anywhere, that would be quite bad..

I tried turning it by hand using the pulley bolt but can't seem to turn it clockwise at all? Like its stuck?

with the plugs out?

Your starter is probably jammed. Smack it with an engineers fettle.

TT

Are all the plugs still intact?

Also, if you can, check the cam timing again.

TT

Yup plugs are out.

When you say engineers fettle, do you mean hammer?

The old plugs didn't look too bad at the ends, the neighbor seemed to think they where still in a usable state. They where a bit rusted on the sides though which is why they where really hard to get out I guess. Either way I bought brand new bosh ones and have binned the old ones.

I guess once I get the starter motor unstuck I can check how well it lines up at tdc.

im having similar troubles with a much simpler engine matie dont worry you will get there in the end.

anyone know about 70's outboard motors?:confused:

Came across this and it seems to have some good info http://www.classic-car-magazine.co.u...intenance.html sounds like part of my problem may be bad connections as the battery terminal wires do get warm after attempting to start which would indicate bad earths? I'm guessing having painted my engine & gearbox this is probly interferring too much? Also for my body earth point (battery->body & engine->body) I've just fitted a rivnut which I bolt the straps onto, is this sufficent for a decent earth?

I don't think a rivnut will be a good idea, there will be corrosion between the two dissimilar metals that will lead to a poor earth over time.

TT

So what would you recommend for doing the body earth?

For all my earths I welded on M6 bolts to the chassis where I needed them. I think I put something like 6 on in total. Just grind the writing off the top of the bolt head first to make sure you get a good contact patch against the chassis member.

Should be ok if you use a smear of copper grease on the bolt.

Cheers

Adrian

Ok that's a good idea, thanks guys :)

I do the same and also put a cotton reel in the engine bay to dump all the live battery connections to.http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...HYXgDghN9spYKw Keeps all the piles of lives and after thoughts in one place and insulated at the same time.

Bob

Right I had a go at this again tonight, still no joy. I sorted all the earths out by taking all the paint off and welding a bolt onto the chassis as recommended. I took the starter off and tested it as well. I turned round by hand fine & I connected it to the battery on its own and it spun round no problem. I still however can't crank the engine by hand, like it's still stuck on something? I tried draining most of the oil out to see if that might help but nothing :mad:

Try and turn the engine anti clock by hand or with a socket on the crank. If it goes 180 degrees and stops there must be something in one of the combustion chambers.

Bob