Engine In Mule
 

Have been playing with the camera so I have taken some of the mule with an old 302 block and heads on so you can see how compact they are. Block is stood on a lump of channel that is the same as the sump depth so it could go down an inch.




Really easy engine mounts



Only 250mm to the top of the trumpets from top chassis rail so easy under standard bonnet.







Not a bad fit for a v8.


Bob

Continued from other post because it can only take four pictures


Exhaust goes under top rail easily.


Engine only sits above the top rail by 3" aand can go down another inch if need be.



Loads of room for the steering and brakes.




Bob

that realy is compact..

ACE!

Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhh,
Just had a little sex wee :eek:

Looks awesome mate.

Liking this muchly :)

That is one horny vision of loveliness Robo, watch out for the terminal understeer such a heavy engine will create in your Titanic build :D :D (joke).

D.

Nice injun rob;) ......by gum ,its gonna take more than a wire brush to get shot of that rust:eek:

I got the chassis cheap on ebay just to use for mock and the engine is just an old block I had kicking about. The mule chassis has given me a chance to sus out where and what engine,gearbox, suspension and axles I can use, its been worth its weight in gold as far as this project goes.It will live again as a mock up as dadofseven is coming to get it to mess with his beemer v8. I am using a new talon chassis so hopefully wont need to de rust:)

Bob

Glad you said that Bob & even happier that I didn't mention the rust :D :D

Seriously though, that engine is going to look awesome in a Roadster. :cool:

Look forward to following your progress. :)

That inlet manifold looks a little out of place of the old block and test chassis! What the plan for the rest of the build? Be interested in seeing what gearbox and rear drive your going to fit in. Be nice to see some alternatives coming through for the Haynes.

I will drag out what I have gathered and take some snaps. Many shiney bits:)

Bob

But why?
Its a nice looking engine, will probably make serious HP and perfect for a Cobra, but a Seven...:confused:
Its heavy - Sevens are all about handling and being nimble - and how would you put that power on the road? You will end up with a car that would not be enjoyable to drive, everytime you put the hammer down, it would break away at the stern, more so in bends:eek:

Im not a profit of doom, but is it not better to have a sharp handling car with just enough power so you can drive it flat out and on the limits?

I have a problem myself in this regard - my ride's (nearly completed) engine is a 3SGTE (weights only a little more than a 4AGE) that makes about 190kw (255hp odd) and I already considering turning the factory boost level down from about 9psi to about 6 - 7 psi. A chap in NZ has the same motor in his chariot and actually got wheel spin in 5th gear on the track - and that is frightening:eek:

Something to ponder about. A Caterham R400 has about 210hp and goes like a bat out of hell and probably the closest thing to motoring nirvana.

The reason I am using the ford 302 is because its a real lightweight. I have weighed it against a pinto [dry] and its about 3kg heavier. If I shove ali heads on it becomes about 15 kg lighter. The power thing is a non issue because there is a throttle pedal fitted not an on/off switch. A guy up the road took me for a spin in a caterham that was making about 300hp and there were no wheelspin problems , it just dug in and f@@ked off. This has been covered before ,yes if you stamp on the loud pedal it wil swap ends but that is true of any high hp car. That car of yours will not be a problem just get used to it slowly.

Bob

edit from hp books


A very compact design, the small block engine utilizes a thin-wall block casting not extended below the crankshaft centerline. Expanded to include the 260, 289, and 302, the engine family has provided power for most of Fords model lineup. Cylinder bore spacing is 4.38", the same as the Cleveland family. The small block is externally one of the smallest V-8 engines made, and total engine weight is around 460 lbs. The 289 was produced from 1963 to 1968.

In 1963 Ford released the 289 High Performance
which produced 271 BHP @ 6000 RPM.

Quite simple really, because you can.
It will look the part & sound great. :)
Personally, I am a huge fan of the sound of a well tuned V8 engine.

I read lots of threads & posts on the subject of track performance.
This is fantastic if that is what floats your boat & are building a track orientated car.
So in that respect, I can see where you are coming from.

Me, I probably fall into a very small minority of builders.
I am not a very aggressive driver & do not have a craving for ultimate speed or performance.
For me the build is all about owning a 7'alike that I can potter about in on a nice sunny day.

That said, I do want enough power to be able to P**s on the fireworks of the local chav in his hot hatch :D
Although I am not a nippy driver, I am certainly not afraid of the loud pedal. ;)

Bob is no stranger to the kit car world & I am sure he has done the maths.

One thing is for sure, his build will turn out to be a joy to behold. :cool:

Having just spent a blissful weekend at Goodwood for the Festival of Speed watching machinery with ridiculous BHP figures thundering up the hill I say why not?
will finish this comment later as a customer has just turned up.

D.

And why not indeed he I was not to tight and lazy I would have looked into using a v8 thunder maker in my build but since I am so tight and lazy I am using the mx5 parts

Right I can now devote some time to this reply;) . If Robbo wants to use a V8 then I say go ahead, knock yourself out and do it. Weight issues? What weight issues? As Robbo has already said the difference between his small block V8 and a pinto is minimal and if the V8 is well back in the engine bay the overall effect on handling will be minimal. Too much power? F1 cars rev to 18,000RPM:eek: and put out C750BHP in a chassis that breaks the scales at around 650KGs, they manage quite well albeit with very good drivers. So why does a couple of hundred BHP in a 600KG(ish) give cause for concern? As Robbo said the throttle pedal he is using is a VARIABLE control not an on/off switch.

My build was recently referred to as a "barge" (conveniently edited later to be less offensive although no apology was ever forthcoming) by someone who lasted nearly six months as a supplier of chassis and body components. My build will weigh around 750KGs when finished (how many of you have any idea what yours will weigh, honestly?) but will have around 225BHP and 200+ ft/lbs of torque from low down (around 2000RPM) with a pretty flat torque curve. This means it will be lighter than almost all standard production cars and pull like a train! If I get the suspension geometry right it might even go round a corner or two:D .

D.

Actually, Im not a racing nut and never interest in it other than as a spectator. My car is purely a daily road car - in SA we have the weather to really enjoy it mostly all year round and in my town, we do not have traffic lights/robots but about 39 double lane roundabouts/traffic circles which will be fun:D
We have three racing classes for sevens and even in the unlimited my car would not be allowed should I choose to race it because it is turbo charged....

The thing with lots of power is getting on the road with the 15x195x50 tires used (common size in SA) and a Seven does not have super wide slicks such as F1 cars.
I had a ride recently in a Seven with a 1.6lt 4AGE turbocharged engine and is really a beast when that turbo push kicks in with a bang. Actually have to adapt driving style to keep it off the boil in a circle otherwise the back just steps out touching the loud pedal when the boost steps in. But in a straight line its better than sex and the acceleration beyond believe - and will easily produce wheel spin in 3rd gear when putting the hammer down. A late model M3 tried us on a sprint start and was demoralized after being trashed big time to 160kph when we discovered we racing ourselves....

Is the pinto engine the 4 cyl ohc (1.6 & 2.0lt) Sierra engine since Im not on par with that motor and cannot recall a Ford in SA ever using that but stand to be corrected unless it is the 4 cyl Sierra lump. We did had a Sierra with a 2.3lt V6 engine as well discounting the V8 Perana's produced locally with the 5.0lt 302 motor.
I know the Rover 3.5 V8 is a light weight engine due to its ally everything but honestly did not expect the 302 being that light as claimed.

I did not meant to be rude in anyway with my previous post, its just I like a Seven as its meant to be; a light small engined car with handling second to none.
My car weigh 30kg over estimated build target weight:( Total the scale at 615kgs.

Edit: Perhaps at 56 Im getting to old for this stuff. Maybe driving a diesel car for years now clouded my senses.

Seriously... The thought of having a big engine in a light car worries you......?????!!!!
. The thought of a few hundred BHP in a lighter than butterfly fart car, makes me do a sex wee, I come from a bike background, where high bhp and low weight rule(along with good torque) ... As we say, the throttle twists both ways.... If I am able ( once fully employed) to build a car that puts out at least 200bhp/ ton ,then I will be a happy man.... Rear wheel spinning up, back end sliding....yehhhhhhhh .... I do that on my supermoto, and that's only got 52.3 bhp ... (does weigh less than one of my dumps though) ....

I would love to stick a big v whatever in my car, my biggest problem at the moment is petrol prices.... Been looking at the GKD (might be the wrong name) chassis for using an m3, and that looks superb, it's more running costs that bother me,

isn't variety the spice of life? - I'm sticking with my V8 because I both want to and I can.

My understanding of the haynes/locost type of car is that you start off with a basic concept and then build it to your own spec.

I realise my choice is going to lead to some difficulties but this is all part of the challenge.

I'm with Bob, V8s Rule :)

Hi blokes! some of you will remember me, I built a roadster but bottled out of the IVA nonsense, sold it and bought a Jag XJR with the proceeds. If I was building another one it would definitely have a v6 or v8 in it, the Ford 302 being a great choice. My nephew has a mark 1 Granada with a heavily tuned and modded 302 in it that produces about 500bhp in it's current state of tune, it is built to handle twice that. My Jag is tuned to 420BHP, turning off the traction control and putting the 5 speed auto box in to sport is entertaining to say the least. My roadster had the 2.0 DOHC and MT75 fitted, it was a huge lump that presented all sorts of major headaches that I could have avoided with a compact v6 or v8. I reckon I could have had a lower centre of gravity for a start, which would have improved handling I suspect. I don't know what the old v6 Essex or cologne engines and boxes go for but they look like an easy fit if you want the v format without massive money being spent. I think it is possible to have too much power for everyday driving but that would have to be a very big number :-) The only thing I would say though is think carefully about diff ratios and how much power the sierra diff can take. I know a roadster is much lighter than a Sierra with 4 large blokes and all their luggage but I am not sure I would want to put massive ponies through it.
Best and all that,
Dave.

Great to have some imput from you Dave. :)

Hope life is treating you well & you are enjoying the Jag. :cool: :)

The good thing about the ford v8/6 engine from the states is the fact they are 90 degree v not 60 like over here.Thats why the thing is only just over the top chassis rail. They also weigh them with cast iron inlet/exhaust mainifolds,heavy flywheels,cast iron water pumps and all the other crap thats bolted on like air con pumps and power steering + a great big starter motor. I have put mine on a diet with ali water pump,ali flywheel, ali inlet and a tiny gear reduction starter and that has got it right down , if I went for the ali heads another shed load comes off. The v6 ford i think is just shy of 4 ltr so that would be a good candidate. On the diff side of things I have now gone to the bmw large case lsd unit which comes with the same 108mm cv patern as the cossie driveshafts i am using. It fits in a treat .Will get some more piccies done.

Bob

Hiya Ronnie, life is good Definitely enjoying the Jag but not the fuel bills. The 4.8 second 0-60 makes up for it though and the supercharger whine helps a bit too:D

Love it mate :)

Glad to hear that all is well in Enoch land.

Deep joy :)