Daft Questions from a Newbie.

[Enoch]

Hi Folks, Just found this forum so thought I would join in the merriment.
I built a Robin Hood Project 2B a few years back and have owned Ron Champion's book since the first edition came out. I have now got to a stage in my life where I feel the need to risk life and limb by building another car. I can weld and fix stuff, I am an electronic engineer by trade, the last build went well so I feel stupidly confident.
Now then, what I need to decide is what donor car to go for. I would prefer a Zetec motor but understand that if I go that route the injection and ignition needs money thrown at it. My 2b had a pinto but that needed loads spent to make it exciting, it was a heavy beast, I want something different this time.
I am thinking of going for a later DOHC sierra but know nothing about them, or maybe a CVH (?) variant.
I want to keep costs down so Mrs Enoch doesn't try to kill me. Again.
Anybody got any thoughts on what I should be looking for?
Thanks in advance,
Enoch.

[HandyAndy]

Hi Enoch, firstly a warm welcome to the forum

my own build has a 1.8 cvh engine, as it came straight from the donor car & so easy for the paperwork side of things come IVA time, maybe not the most exciting engine but have been told is quite sprightly in a Roadster
may i suggest if you go for a full donor car then use the engine from that, you can always upgrade later & the mrs won,t feel the cost so much ,
a Roadster that i see very often has a 2ltr zetec on bike carbs & megajolt & is one rapid car , approx 170bhp.

best regards & good luck with your build, you,ll find the forum is a friendly place with very helpful folk always on hand to offer help etc.

andy

[Enoch]

Thanks, Andy for the welcome and such a quick response. Common sense tells me to go the single donor route as far as I can but I have heard that the Zetec engine is much better. I have no experience of it but I do remember the Pinto being a bit weighty and designed in the late 17th century.
It made the 2b shift though, it had twin 45's and a fast race cam, very nippy.
Can anyone tell me which engines had which gearbox fitted? I have read here that the standard design needs tobe changed a lot if an MT75 is used but I am unsure as to which Sierras used the type 9.
Best,
Enoch

[Enoch]

Thanks Sean, I prefer the IRS route, which is why I think the roadster is the one for me. I am very disappointed that 250 quid won't do it
I remember the spiralling costs on the 2b!! As long as Mrs thinks it's cheap I will get away with it
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

[londonsean69]

Originally Posted by Enoch

Thanks, Andy for the welcome and such a quick response. Common sense tells me to go the single donor route as far as I can but I have heard that the Zetec engine is much better. I have no experience of it but I do remember the Pinto being a bit weighty and designed in the late 17th century.
It made the 2b shift though, it had twin 45's and a fast race cam, very nippy.
Can anyone tell me which engines had which gearbox fitted? I have read here that the standard design needs tobe changed a lot if an MT75 is used but I am unsure as to which Sierras used the type 9.
Best,
Enoch

I think, basically, the early Sierras had the Type 9.

It all depends on power output as well. The Zetec is a lot more modern technology, and has higher power as standard, with the option of an easy tune for 170+ (Bike throttle bodies and decent ECU)

I have done my chassis including the mods for the MT75, and they are not difficult, in fact, they are just slight changes from the book spec. No idea if they work, because I haven't fitted my box yet, and I don't have an engine yet either.

Forgot to add, you can get a brand spanking new Zetec 2.0, with ECU, loom, injectors etc for £700 from Robin Hood.

[Enoch]

Like the photos, Sean, looks like you know what you are doing. What is the lathe work required for? Looks like there is a fair bit more than I expected. Good job I've got a lathe and milling machine How long ago did you start your build?

[londonsean69]

Originally Posted by Enoch

Like the photos, Sean, looks like you know what you are doing. What is the lathe work required for? Looks like there is a fair bit more than I expected. Good job I've got a lathe and milling machine How long ago did you start your build?

I only roughly know what I am doing.
I did a lot of work on bikes for years (old man had a hire fleet and breakers) but I was only about 10 or 11

Everything else is self taught, welding, lathe work etc.

What is the lathework, let me see

• Suspension bush tubes (couldn't find the right wall thickness, so bored out some thicker stuff)
• Wishbone adjusters (ended up buying them, I couldn't turn the M18 tap, let alone the M20)
• Mushroom inserts for Sierra uprights (photos not uploaded yet)
• Boring out tubes for pedal pivots
• Nylon bushes for above
• Some (not me) have turned their suspension bushes from HDPE or Delrin

The little lathe in the pictures met an untimely end, I now have a Myford ML7 (much better, all gears and belts, no silly electronics)

With a lathe and a mill you will be able to fabricate a lot of stuff youself, although I don't really think I have had call for a mill until today (brake caliper brackets - not necessary in the book spec)
I have the attachments to use the myford for milling, so will give that a bash soon

If you have a flypress/brake press you are laughing, because otherwise the suspension brackets need to made by brute force (hammer) or bought in

[deezee]

Originally Posted by londonsean69

option of an easy tune for 170+ (Bike throttle bodies and decent ECU)

Its not that easy! First off you'll need a custom manifold for around £150 from boggs. Then the throttle bodies (£120 for R1 throttle bodies on ebay) and an aftermarket ECU, say a Megasquirt for Edis4 for around £350 from extraefi. Even getting tuned on a rolling road you'll be happy with 160bhp. People throw around big bhp figures with bolt on mods, but its just not going to happen.

[londonsean69]

Originally Posted by deezee

Its not that easy! First off you'll need a custom manifold for around £150 from boggs. Then the throttle bodies (£120 for R1 throttle bodies on ebay) and an aftermarket ECU, say a Megasquirt for Edis4 for around £350 from extraefi. Even getting tuned on a rolling road you'll be happy with 160bhp. People throw around big bhp figures with bolt on mods, but its just not going to happen.

I never mentioned prices Almost anything is easy with the right money thrown at it.

Originally Posted by HandyAndy

a Roadster that i see very often has a 2ltr zetec on bike carbs & megajolt & is one rapid car , approx 170bhp.

Sounds pretty cheap to me, although the use of carbs would need to be looked at in terms of emissions. Megajolt is about £150-200 I believe (not too sure as I am going FI route, probably with an Emerald ECU @ around £650 for reasons to be revealed soon enough)

Also, GSXR is the preferred manifold, as they can be re-spaced to fit an ST170 manifold, complete with ST170 fuel rail, injectors etc.
I have heard that ZX12 throttle bodies match almost perfectly, although at 48mm they are a tad big.

Don't forget that when fitting one of these lumps to a kit car, the standard, restrictive exhaust system will hit the bin, as will the airbox.

By all accounts, (although I have not done it personally) a std. 2.0 Zetec (130bhp) will achieve 160-170bhp with throttle bodies when fitted to a kit car.
Obviously this would include a decent exhaust system, free flowing intake and user programmable ECU, a little bit of DIY porting, just to match the intake and exhaust manifolds. Nothing really beyond the realms of practicality for a kit car builder

A standard car has to meet certain emissions/fuel economy targets. A car that is only driven in a 'spirited' fashion, might not put fuel economy at the top of the list.

This is the route I am going, although I am starting with a slightly more powerful lump to start with, for a degree of future proofing (I have further mods planned).

[HandyAndy]

As Sean has said in above post, go out & buy the "Roadster" book, officially titled " Build your own sports car, on a budget"
As Sean says too, the Roadster is a fully independant suspension chassis design,
I believe the cvh & pinto engined sierra,s have the type 9 gearbox whereas the dohc tended to have the MT75 box, yes if using the MT75 box then the chassis build is slightly different in the transmission tunnel area, not a prob as quite a few builders are using that box so help is at hand.

On a personal note i,m using the cvh engine then once been on the road for a summer after IVA test will install a 2ltr zetec with bike carbs etc, a brand new engine can be bought for approx £700 & makes the car very quick indeed.
If you put your location in your profile there might be someone local to you who can show you their build/car.

cheers
andy
ps... as for cost of build.... mine will be on the road within a £3k budget