Using a FWD Engine?

[acra]

Originally Posted by deezee

Why do you want low fuel usage from a sports car? What kind of MPG are you looking for? Why does the engine need to be specifically light? I understand wanting to build a car, thats why I started building mine (with the engine out of a FWD Escort)

Maybe you'd be better off with a motorbike engine if you want light. Although you'll only manage 30 mpg with something like a Triumph 3 cylinder. I believe the whole engine AND gearbox only weighs in at modest 70kgs but it gives you 100 plus BHP.

Sounds mad, right?
The main thing is, I really want to build my own car, really like the looks of the 7 style cars, and power isn't an issue for me for two reasons:
I'm rarely going to use a track, so the car only has to be capable of road-legal performance, and I wrote a car off almost two years ago, since which I've been the most tame driver imaginable

Although it is a good point that it will probably be disadvantageous to use that engine, I think I am living with my head in the clouds a little!

Originally Posted by Snapper

If this is your preferred engine then it's all about a gearbox.
You need to find a rear wheel drive gearbox that is light and will compliment you lack of power with ratios that will get you off the line but also give you economical and usable 5th gear.
Bellhousings can be adapted usually with a spacer that has bolt hole that mate with the engine and the box.
Flywheels can be drilled to take full clutch kits or you search the manufacturers to find a plate that is the right diameter for the cover and also has the right spline for the gearbox input shaft.
Anything can be engineered but is it really worth it?
Having built and been involved with many kit builds I would not fixate on an engine then try and make it fit at any cost, smaller engines often return less mpg on the road than bigger ones driven reasonably.
You can fit any Ford engine from 1100 crossflow to 2.0L Zetec straight on to a Ford MT75 or Type 9, easily for little cost.

Thanks for the information mate, that's pretty much what I was looking for - again, it's true that I'm probably looking at too much work/cost for no real gain - what kind of mpg would you be looking at from the regular 1.6/1.8 choice?

[twinturbo]

Why do you want economy? is it to save money?

Zetec + Box + Sundries £250 - 35MPG
Aygo + box + sundries ~£1500 - 50MPG

£1,250 difference.

Travel 30,000 miles in 6 years.

30,000/35 = 857 Gallons at £5.5G = £4,714 on fule for the zetec.
30,000/50 = 600 Gallons at £5.5G = £3,300 on fule for the Aygo

£1,417 difference.

So.

After 6 years at 5,000 miles a year (unlikly) you will have saved £167

Your return will come late on too after Y5.

TT

[mark]

If i drove it reasonably careful which i may have tried for about 500ft my 1.8 cvh on bike carbs was delivering about 38mpg before i destroyed it!

I dare say a carefully driven 1.8 zetec would return 40mpg if not more without too much trouble as these cars are so light, as already mentioned it would be cheap to source the parts and has been done by others plenty of times so is a straightforward job.

[alga]

I suspect it's the atrocious aerodynamics of a Seven that's eating up the fuel. According to this page, the aerodynamic drag of a Caterham is about 50% worse than that of a typical sedan (although better than a VW van or a Land Rover Defender).

Caterham was able to pull out 131 MPG out of a Seven with a stock K-series engine purely by improving aerodynamics and by careful driving:
http://green.autoblog.com/2006/07/27...aterham-seven/

[Hoybi]

Geert Swaals, one of the first suppliers of Haynes Roadster parts (ALPHAX) had a solution for mating AUDI/VW engines to Ford gearboxes.
2 years ago he stopped the business. (his web site is still online)
From his Site, I copied the run down of engines. Left out the prices.
Although this is the higher performance class, his AUDI-solution (FWD) should be possible in less powerful versions.

quote :

AUDI - VW
Audi 1.8i 20v Turbo: A 4 cylinder turbo engine from Audi, which came in the A3 S3 A4 and TT. This same engine was placed in several VW and Seat models. Standard ranging from 150-225 bhp depending on the stock ECU and turbo, but with a free programmable ECU, 260 bhp is easy to get. A very good engine, very strong and full of German precision engineering. This turbocharged engine has virtually no boost-gap (lag) and maintains its maximum torque from 1800 til 4700 rpm. Price depends on engine number.

Connecting to a Ford MT-75 gearbox: This engine can now easily be mated to a Ford MT-75 gearbox. This gearbox can be found in the Sierra's and Scorpio's/Granada's with the 2.0l DOHC. The MT-75 is a very strong 5-speed that can easily take 300 bhp. Alphax has developed its own adaptingplate for this Audi-Ford combination. This adaptingplate comes with a recondintioned flywheel, a new clutchplate and a new pressureplate. It also comes with instructions on how to modify your clutch release bearing and gearbox.

Free Programmable MegaSquirt Engine Controll Unit for Audi 1.8i 20v Turbo: To get the most out of this engine and to controll it all yourself, there is the option to install a free programmable ECU. This unit comes with a ECU, wiringloom and a wideband lambda sensor.


NISSAN
SR20DET Redtop: The first of this serie Nissan engines. This SR20DET came in the Nissan Silvia and the 180SX. The 4 cylinder turbocharged engine gives a 203 bhp. This 2.0L comes complete with the stock ECU and wiringloom and 5-speed gearbok. All ready to be built into your kitcar.

SR20DET Blacktop: The second generation 2.0 liter comes from the Silva and the 200SX. Standard it produces 210 bhp and comes with a Garreth T-28 turbo. This engine also comes complete with the stock ECU, wiringloom and a 5-speed gearbox. This engine makes a great powerplant for drifting.


TOYOTA
4A-GE Silvertop: 4 cylinder 1587cc 20 valves with variable valve timing. Standard 140 bhp. The engine is complete with all sensors, complete stock wiring and ECU. Fits almost every kitcar and is widely used in sevens. Great engine with lots of tuning options

4A-GE Blacktop: 4 cylinder 1587cc 20 valves with VVT-i. The top of the 4A-GE engines and only sold in a few countries in Europe. This engine comes with complete with wiring, sensors and ECU.

3S-GTE: 4 cylinder 2.0 liter turbocharged engine. This engine delivers 200-240 bhp and can take a serious beating. The engine is complete with all sensors, wiringloom and stock ECU.
MITSUBISHI
4G 63T: A high-performance engine from Mitsubshi and one of the strongest around. This compact 2.0L 4 cylinder turbocharged engine delivers from 240 bhp. The height of this engine makes it well suited for all kitcars. It comes complete including factory ECU and wiringloom. Please inform for options for gearboxes.

[aerosam]

Originally Posted by acra

Sounds mad, right?
The main thing is, I really want to build my own car, really like the looks of the 7 style cars, and power isn't an issue for me

Not really an answer to using you preferred engine, but bearing what you said in mind, why not go down the original locost route and use the old crossflow. Building these cars is tried and tested.

If you want to build a Haynes roadster, you could always use a 1.6 pinto - just ask AshG just how much fun he has in his! Also, how available are the engines you want, and how much will a good one cost?

What worries me is that you are doing an apprenticeship and (no offence intended) you may be, at the moment, lacking the skills needed to make big changes to a tried and tested design and make them work successfully. Ive gone down that route to fit BMW engine and running gear, and have been building for 2 and a half years. If I had been more conventional and used more tried and tested engine, running gear combinations, I could have been enjoying my car all this summer instead of being in the garage still building it.

I don't mean to discourage you at all, in fact, I love the fact you want to be innovative, this is how these cars grow and evolve, but you need to weigh eveything up before you settle on how you want to proceed with your build.

Good luck.

Sam.

[acra]

Originally Posted by aerosam

Not really an answer to using you preferred engine, but bearing what you said in mind, why not go down the original locost route and use the old crossflow. Building these cars is tried and tested.

If you want to build a Haynes roadster, you could always use a 1.6 pinto - just ask AshG just how much fun he has in his! Also, how available are the engines you want, and how much will a good one cost?

What worries me is that you are doing an apprenticeship and (no offence intended) you may be, at the moment, lacking the skills needed to make big changes to a tried and tested design and make them work successfully. Ive gone down that route to fit BMW engine and running gear, and have been building for 2 and a half years. If I had been more conventional and used more tried and tested engine, running gear combinations, I could have been enjoying my car all this summer instead of being in the garage still building it.

I don't mean to discourage you at all, in fact, I love the fact you want to be innovative, this is how these cars grow and evolve, but you need to weigh eveything up before you settle on how you want to proceed with your build.

Good luck.

Sam.

Sam, that's an ace bit of advice - I think I am in dream land, and I'm not quite sure why... I've also been looking at bike engine options, but again they'd be a large amount of work for little gain!

I'm definitely preferring the Haynes, given the availability of the old escorts, although I'm worried about finding the right Sierra, again due to their age.

If I were to go down the traditional route, how far along the build do you need to be getting the donor?