tuning options for 1.8cvh

[steve8274]

thanks guys. it does confirm what i thought. my engine runs fine at the moment so was reluctant to buy another at this time. plans for future!
i just didnt want to build car(which i havent even started yet. not long had donor) and be disappointed with my engine which is why i thought about tuning
i will stick with what i have for now.
hi Andy, when you say your book covers more of escort/orion version, does the book cover any about sierra. will it be helpful to me since i do intend to strip engine down.
as another point, where did you get your parts. does anyone know of any cheap places to buy parts for sierra cvh engine
thanks again
steve

[Big Vern]

It's your choice of coarse, Steve, but the cost per HP gained when tuning the CVH is simply not worth it, there are better engines around! 1.8CVH as std = 90bhp Vs 135bhp for a std 2.0 Zetec. you can get a decent Zetec for £150 and you won't be able to do a stock rebuild on the CVH for that.
Like I said I wouldn't waste the price of a gallon of engine oil on it. Just use it to get the car built and on the road if you don't want to mess about with engines at this time.
Note also should you ever choose to sell the car at a later date it'll be worth more with a zetec than the CVH

[steve8274]

where would i get a zetec for £150? and surely i would have to strip that down to check it out. maybe another £100 or so

[Tatey]

Big Vern, i have to dissagree with you in respects to doing a complete rebuild of a CVH engine for £150. As I will be doing one for that exact budget . Heres a list of bits i'll be getting for it:

• Engine degreaser - £5
• Engine paint - £6
• Piston rings - £32.50
• Big end bearings - £17.50
• Head gasket set - £30.50
• Head skim - £20
• Oil - £20
• Main bearings
• Spark Plugs - £10
• Thermostat - £5
• Oil filter - £5
• Timing Belt - £10
• Sump Gasket - £8.46
• Core Plug Set - £7.50
• Air Filter - £10
• HT Leads - £12
• Water Pump - £10

Total = £150


As you can see it's a pretty extensive list, including getting the head skimmed. I am yet to decide if i need to buy main bearings as mine don't seem to need replacing, but it depends how much money i have at the time of rebuilding it all.

At the end of it i'll have a fully rebuilt 1.8 CVH engine, which i know will work since it's all be checked out and rebuilt by myself and should last some time. Where as if you spend £150 on an old zetec engine, you dont know the condition of it and you are still going to have to replace a lot of bits on it, so it will end up costing you more. I myself have been wanting to bin the CVH and buy a zetec but the financial implications of it outweighed the gains if you ask me, if you ask me theres more fun to be had in a slightly lower powered car when you are an inexperienced drive .

[Big Vern]

There are loads of Zetec engined fords clogging up most dismantlers yards and there are always plenty on the 'bay. They're getting to be so cheap I wouldn't worry about checking it out just buy it, fit it, and if it blows up get another! you'd need to get through about dozen before tuning the CVH would come close in price. Sometimes even new crated zetecs come up - the last one went for £795 delivered.... A decent rebuild of the CVH will cost close to this and it's still only a CVH.
If your a fan of the CVH or just like a tuning challenge and have deep pockets then go ahead as such projects can be great fun ( the sort of thing I usually end up getting involved in) :0
But if you have deep pockets why would you be worried about the cost of a Zetec?
What ever you choose what's most important is to have fun


BV

[twinturbo]

GBS have a load of Zetecs at that Price..

But I think Tatey is doing the right thing, starting small, learnign about the internals and usign what he has as a startign point.

TT

[Big Vern]

Hi Tatey,
This is not a rant and not to be taken as such. I would just like to point a few things out mainly 'cos I've been down this road myself and it don't work out the cheapest in the end. (more of that later) It's still fun though just don't be under any illusions it the cheap route. But hey it's whatever you want to do.
No rebore and new pistons or reground crank? no oil pump either, hardly fully rebuilt....
Reground crank will likely cost £10 per journal and rebore and hone typically £60-£80. Last time I bought CVH pistons (late 1990's) they were £150+vat for O/S. and what did your mains cost at least £25 I would have thought for cheapo brg's Oil pump - cheapo £20
added to your rebuild cost I make that £70+60+25+20+let say £100 for pistons that's £175 + your £150 = £325 and we've not investigated the tuning costs yet.... £325 and it's still a 90bhp engine!
Vs £75 on a Zetec with no history - take a chance, to £150-£250 for a known good engine with history/money back guarentee.
Even the Duratecs are coming down to around the £250-350 mark!
As regards the finacial implications, scanning pistonheads and other kit car for sale sites for '7prices typically the '7 type cars with Zetec engines are fetching higher resale prices than those with non 2.0 Pinto's and CVH's. typically at the moment upto £1000 difference!

Building the Haynes roadster or any other for that matter is about what YOU want to do and about what you want to get out of it.....above all it should be fun and enjoyable. I already spent a silly amount of money on the engine (for a previous aborted project years ago) and could have had the same power from a zetec for a fraction of the cost....
There is always great fun to be had tuning an unpopular or difficult engine but the costs are high. For those on a budget the most cost effective solution currently IS the zetec...
Here's what I'd do: Invest in a Zetec engine now it would be the most sensible. (yes I know I don't usually apply good sence to my decisions) - even if I stripped it to check it out it's still a zetec and makes the end product more appealing both as a vehicle to drive (after all you want one!!!) and appealing to any potential purchaser if you decided to sell in the future.
That's what I'd do - except I'm build mine with MX-5 running gear and a very racey 2.1 Pinto (I've already spent £1500 on) that's been in the wardrove for 10 years....

BV.

[Tatey]

BV, I in no way took what you said as a rant, it is just constructive criticism from a fellow builder.

Before i start buying any bits for my engine i'll be taking it to an engine refurb place to get the crank, camshaft, head and cylinders checked out. If it turns out it needs a lot of work then i'll be binning it and moving onto bigger and better things, most likely a zetec . However this will be my first engine stripdown/rebuild and I've always wanted to strip a potential non runner down (i don't know anything about the engine) and then rebuild it.

Also in terms of resale value, I entered this project with the mindset of building a car, meaning it will have everything the way I like it, meaning I wont be selling it. However, each to their own though, some people may just enjoy the building side of things and want to move onto bigger and better things e.g. the single seater.

[twinturbo]

One other point to take into acount.

Unless you can find and verify an early Zetec, your goin gto be going for an enhanced emissions test during the IVA. To be sure of that not costing you a £90 Retest your going to want to put on a CAT and an exhaust to match it. Which is going to be a few quid up front.

With the verified CVH, it will jus thave to pass the basic emissions test. And then put the Zetec in afterwards.

TT

[twinturbo]

Early Zetec non PATS Management is not cheap either, I have seen DExx 2.0 ECU's on their own go for 60 on ebay.


I am not a fan of the CVH, but it's a reasonable starting point.

TT