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-   -   IVA results (http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=3700)

AshG 19th February 2010 08:14 PM

IVA results
 
what a long day.

She failed but the day was very positive and very friendly. there wasn't really any bad items so should only take a day or two to rectify. Andy the tester was a good laugh but went to the book by the letter which i must applaud. he knew what he was doing inside out and offered some really good advice.

here are the fail points

1.) Noise was 106db at 3700rpm

2.) i need a convex glass in the passenger mirror as the tester had to move his head too much to get the full range of view in that mirror

3.) my t pieces for the brake system were bolted to the chassis using riv nuts. this was deemed unacceptable as there is no locking device. i was advised to drill straight through the tube and use a bolt and nyloc nut on the end. all fixings/items on brake related systems must have a licking device!

4.) my roll bar back stays only had one bolt securing them. they either needed to be welded or have a minimum of two bolts.

5.) heat shrink and glued on rubber is deemed unacceptable for iva. any covering used must be equivalent to something a mass manufacturer would use. this meant i had to remove the heat shrink off the track rod ends which then failed (it was suggested that i used a caterham type item to cover these.)

6.) my universal joint on the steering was too close to the bulk head bearing meaning the collapsible mechanism wouldn't work adequately in an accident.

7.) speedo was out but was aloud to alter it at the time so it is now spot on.

8.) headlights were out but dogwood was aloud to align them for me whilst i sat in the car.

9.) side indicators failed. not because of their position it was because they were actually side markers which had the wrong e mark. the emark they had were for side markers not side indicators. the difference is that side markers have a lot narrower range of visibility than side indicators. you could see them from the back but the light emitted was not strong enough in the required direction.

think that was about it


good news bits

the shocks passed fine even without the rubber boots.

brakes were spot on

self centring was perfect (andy the tester commented that it was very very good for a 7!)

car weighed in at 620kg with full 25l tank and 115kg driver. take driver and fuel off and that's 480kg

emissions were fantastic infact miles under the limit.


Over the course of the day andy gave me lots of fantastic advice on passing the iva. i will do a full write up of all the tips in ckc. it was obvious he was really into his cars and really knew his stuff. all the points he made were fair and well deserved.



it was a good day out very educational and the car was bloody amazing beyond belief to drive. the whole journey there and back the car was totally spot on and didnt miss a single beat

and last of all i must say a really really really big thank you to dave (dogwood) he has slogged his guts out all week helping me and i must say i really couldn't have done it without him and my fail list would have been double the length. he certainly wont be buying any beers or food at stoneleigh this year!!

dogwood 19th February 2010 08:24 PM

Gosh Ash, you made me blush..:o

But you are more than welcolme. after all that's what mates are for.
Mind you could have done without the 6am alarm call..

gingea1pom 19th February 2010 08:30 PM

Ash,

In a funny sort of way nice one, if you know what I mean.

Is there a book distance for Item 6, only I am about to cut my column to make the extention.

When is the re-test?

It has been like loads of expectant fathers on here today!

Cheers Ginge

Bonzo 19th February 2010 08:49 PM

I expect you are feeling a little dissapointed Ash but not a bad result there :)

Like you say, it'll not take you long to sort those few things out.

Guess that's the touble with the new IVA .... Still a bit of an unknown quantity for many of us .... The new regs are well documented but the way they are being applied has yet to fully surface.

Got to say, well done mate :cool:

What a long day, bet you & David are knackered :eek:

twinturbo 19th February 2010 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshG (Post 31949)

1.) Noise was 106db at 3700rpm

Furry Muff

Quote:


2.) i need a convex glass in the passenger mirror as the tester had to move his head too much to get the full range of view in that mirror

Let us know what u fit

Quote:

3.) my t pieces for the brake system were bolted to the chassis using riv nuts. this was deemed unacceptable as there is no locking device. i was advised to drill straight through the tube and use a bolt and nyloc nut on the end. all fixings/items on brake related systems must have a licking device!
To Quote a meerkat, "SIMPLES"

Quote:

4.) my roll bar back stays only had one bolt securing them. they either needed to be welded or have a minimum of two bolts.
Elaborate, is the book design out of spec now.


Quote:

5.) heat shrink and glued on rubber is deemed unacceptable for iva. any covering used must be equivalent to something a mass manufacturer would use. this meant i had to remove the heat shrink off the track rod ends which then failed (it was suggested that i used a caterham type item to cover these.)
Oooohhh... Hmmm.. Let us know the fix!!


Quote:

6.) my universal joint on the steering was too close to the bulk head bearing meaning the collapsible mechanism wouldn't work adequately in an accident.
Aaaarg... is this likly to be a problem for all of us?


Quote:

7.) speedo was out but was aloud to alter it at the time so it is now spot on.
BING


Quote:

8.) headlights were out but dogwood was aloud to align them for me whilst i sat in the car.
Bong

Quote:

9.) side indicators failed. not because of their position it was because they had the wrong e mark. the emark they had were for side markers not side indicators. the difference is that side markers have a lot narrower range of visibility than side indicators. you could see them from the back but the light emitted was not strong enough in the required direction.
BASH ;)


Quote:

the shocks passed fine even without the rubber boots.
Can you take a pick for us of this ;)

TT

dogwood 19th February 2010 09:15 PM

I'm sure Ash is feeling a little dispondent as well, but he really shouldn't.
The examiner commented more than once on the quality of his welding and build.
I think Ash should be proud (And I'm sure he is) of the way his car turned out.
The only real fail was the noise, which we couldn't try before the test.
The rest would have been almost a fix on the day.

Bonzo 19th February 2010 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogwood (Post 31954)
I'm sure Ash is feeling a little dispondent as well, but he really shouldn't.
The examiner commented more than once on the quality of his welding and build.
I think Ash should be proud (And I'm sure he is) of the way his car turned out.
The only real fail was the noise, which we couldn't try before the test.
The rest would have been almost a fix on the day.


I agree with that David :)

Ash should be really proud of the Roadster that he has produced ..... It is a stunning example :cool:

If I can't have a first time pass, i'll take that list any day of the week ;)

twinturbo 19th February 2010 09:48 PM

It's shorter than the fail sheet from my Mondeo's MOT last month :D

TT

AshG 19th February 2010 10:12 PM

not really feeling down. i went in expecting to come away with a list of bits to do.

im just glad that i didnt fail on brakes emissions or self centering as they are all buggars to get correct with out the correct equipment

lets just say i now understand why the iva is more expensive than sva as it takes double the time to go over the car.

HandyAndy 19th February 2010 10:14 PM

Ash,

A HUGE well done mate, that is one good fail list , it sounds odd to say that but honestly mate you should give yourself & Dogwood a huge pat on the back.

Thanks for sharing the points of the fail, as it will help us all i,m sure, as there are a few points that we would all get caught out with ( brake T piece / steering column ).

again ... well done to you both .( You & David)

cheers
andy

Big Vern 19th February 2010 10:24 PM

Hi Ash,

I know you feel a little disappointed right now, it was xmas morning when you woke up today but now it's tea time, the bond movie's finished and you didn't get the pressie you really wanted.....:(
Have a Beer or two and that Curry with Dogwood and you'll soon cheer up when you realise how much you've achieved, especially since the Haynes roadster was designed to pass the SVA test!
I remember a year ago it looked like the IVA would kill most home built kit cars! So ending up with such a short and fixable fail list really isn't that bad (I'd be right chuffed if it was me:D ) all things considered, and a testiment to your skill and resourcefulness.
This has certainly given me more confidence in my project knowing that an IVA pass is achievable with this design.
What's also important is the value to the rest of us of your IVA experience has had. The first few people through the IVA are pioneers for the rest of us.

Many Thanks and Well Done!

Bonzo 19th February 2010 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshG (Post 31958)
lets just say i now understand why the iva is more expensive than sva as it takes double the time to go over the car.

Funny you should say that Ash, I was saying to the wife that if it is now an all day test, that'll explain the extra costs involved with the IVA test.

Hold you head up high, you done well :)

Lets ;) hope you get it sorted & on the road fro Detling :cool:

See you at Stoneleigh mate .... Dagging to see your Roadster in the flesh :)

deezee 19th February 2010 11:38 PM

As an avid follower of your build, it must be said that your experience will help some of the hundred other builders "adjust" :) their cars to make the IVA easier.

I'd love to hear what tweaks get done to help pass those few little niggles, plus its good to hear AdrianH's experience on the matter. All in all I think its an enormous achievement just to sit the IVA. I'd just like to echo the support and another WELL DONE, I'm positive you'll have it pass in no time.

twinturbo 20th February 2010 12:04 AM

I think, as every fail comes in... we should have a rectification thread/list.

That way peeps can see the fails and the fixes..

Perhaps Ash will start this off ;)

TT

tkpm 20th February 2010 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinturbo (Post 31976)
I think, as every fail comes in... we should have a rectification thread/list.

That way peeps can see the fails and the fixes..

Perhaps Ash will start this off ;)

TT

I think thats a good idea TT

AshG 20th February 2010 12:49 AM

i could write a book on it after today. i am going to do a full bore run down of the whole test in the mag. there is so much to cover that its going to take me a while to write it all up. my test was conducted to the letter and it is how all your tests will be conducted and there are a lot of things that you cant do now which used to slide through sva.

what i can say is the new test isnt harder in the way i perceived it to be the rules are quite fair when explained and put into context. one key thing i took away was about the trimming of projections. major car manufactures have to meet these regulations why should we be treated any differently? when covering a sharp edge you need to think how would ford/gm/nissan etc do that. if what you have done would look like a bodge on a production car you purchased new from a dealership then the likely hood of it being acceptable is low.

e.g my seatbelt brackets were covered with a bit of rubber glued and cable tied on. you wouldn't ever see that in a production car so its not going to pass. simple solution is production cars have proper covers over the seatbelt brackets find one in the breakers that fits your brackets correctly and use it.

i had a really good day regardless of pass or fail. what was better than anything was that if i do all the things on the fail sheet i know that my car will be spot on and unquestionable in its safety. all the guys that conduct these tests have my full respect. its a hard job, they want you to pass and will help you as much as they possibly can but if its not up to standard they will fail it, its not personal its about safety at the end of the day.

drury318 20th February 2010 09:47 AM

Hello Ash, I am really sorry to hear about your fail but I suppose you can at least see the finishing line is very near now. If that`s all he could find in a full day of looking then it`s quite a credit to you I think!
I am sure I am not alone in wondering about a few things though, such as how do you get your steering u/j further away from the bulkhead, mine is quite near but it is set by the lenghth of the shaft from the column?, can I also ask did you have anyway of "locking" the flexy brake pipes to the brackets? mine are put thru the bracket, then a normal nut secures them then the metal pipe goes on the end, is this not acceptable?
Dennis.

flyerncle 20th February 2010 09:51 AM

Considering the amount of parts on the car that it takes to put it together and the amount of work that has gone into it, you have done a fine job and the fail list is a minor set back but it would have been a nice one if it had passed first time.

WELL DONE ASH G

Jimmyd 20th February 2010 10:05 AM

I think that's a very good effort and guess you'll be retesting and on the road in no time.

J

ozzy1 20th February 2010 10:29 AM

Sorry to hear you failed Ash,at least it seems like you had a decent tester who explained things to you and also gave you ideas on how to rectify the problems which to me seems pretty decent of him.I'm sure it wont take you much time/effort or cost to get it all sorted ready for a retest.

AshG 20th February 2010 11:53 AM

been having a look at some of the fail points this morning the only one i cant seem to find a simple solution for is the convex mirror glass. i thought i would be able to just buy a replacement glass that was convex but they dont seem to exist.

does anyone know how difficult it would be to buy a convex glass for a different mirror and cut it down to fit mine?

les g 20th February 2010 12:02 PM

Well done Ash
that was a good result really.
sounds like just a few pedantic fails as is the norm........
and best of all , apart from the noise no big money fails
or things that are going to put you back to much
will you still have to buy Dogwood his curry
cheers les g

Bonzo 20th February 2010 12:02 PM

I am probably having a silly moment here Ash :o

Any chance that one of the self adhesive Caravan towing mirrors would do the job !!
Some of those jobbies are mirror finished plastic & wouldn't be adverse to a little trimming ;)
Not going to be very long lived but might do the job !!??

The only other solution that I can see is to fit a larger mirror ( Probably not an option at this late stage )

Bonzo 20th February 2010 12:11 PM

Here's the sort of thing I mean :)

Towing mirror

Not self adhesive but if it has a plastic mirror lense , it may do the trick !!

spud69 20th February 2010 12:19 PM

Hard luck Ash, looks like he's been fair but stuck to the manual to the letter mainly due to the audience. Never heard that one about the heat shrink being unsuitable though.

You shall soon be there though......AndyH

old_bill 20th February 2010 01:02 PM

Sorry to hear about the fail Ash. However, it won't be a big problem for a man of your talents to get it through next time and the knowledge you pass on will be invaluable to us.;)

By the way it was my birthday yesterday and I turned 59 :eek: does that make me the oldest lunatic in this assylum? :D :D

DaddyA 20th February 2010 01:12 PM

Ash,

unlucky but well done aswell. Shouldn't take long to correct those points, then she can be enjoyed to the full:)

dogwood 20th February 2010 01:14 PM

Simple answer to the mirror prob.
Unbolt it, chuck a cheap nasty one on .

Try Barnies bikes up Luton road

dogwood 20th February 2010 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_bill (Post 32017)
By the way it was my birthday yesterday and I turned 59 :eek: does that make me the oldest lunatic in this assylum? :D :D

Only just...57 for me.....Don't make you the looniest though..:rolleyes:

TSM Locost 20th February 2010 01:41 PM

Oldest lunatic
 
Sorry BILL ......... I was 60 last December. :D :D :D

Big Vern 20th February 2010 01:57 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Hi Ash,

What mirrors are you using? Is it due to the size of the mirror - ie just above mimimum size so it's legal but limited view (the problem with a lot of aftermarket mirrors apparently). Guess Dogwood could be right on this and just get a mirror that'll pass then switch it out for the one you have:D
A good fail though as the rest of us can pester the suppliers to supply mirrors that actually work!

Attached - hopefully - are a couple of piccies - one is of a cable gland cover used on the track rod end which looks very OEM and should be available from most good electrical factors, the other of the Tiger lower steering column arangment and below it in that image is the Truimph Dolomite (I think - I'll have to check) lower column which will fit the Escort rack.

HTH BV.

Correction the steering shaft mentioned above is a TR7 lower column shaft available from rimmer bros. Part No. TKC1084

davidimurray 21st February 2010 11:02 PM

Ash

Congratulations and commiserations. Only just got back from a weekend away so busy catching up with the forum. Just getting the car to iva is a massive achievement. The failure list doesn't look too bad and i'm sure you will get them sorted soon.Will be interested to hear more about all the issues. Have you tried looking at any of the online part fiches for your mirrors in case there are any variants - a good resource is - http://fiche.ronayers.com/

Cheers

Dave

Big Vern 22nd February 2010 03:18 PM

Hi Ash,

See here for convex glass mirrors and replacement glass

http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=pb&pid=37061

Regards BV.

dogwood 22nd February 2010 07:02 PM

Just called in on Ash.
We were discussing the mirrors.
Plus some other bits he failed on that others have passed with ok
Seemed strange mine and several others have passed
with the same mirrors, and his failed.
They are Yamaha R1 mirrors.
Seems they are ok for everyone but him.

davidimurray 22nd February 2010 07:12 PM

Out of interest have you compared the position of yours and Ash mirrors? Wonder if Ash are slightly further back?

dogwood 22nd February 2010 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidimurray (Post 32214)
Out of interest have you compared the position of yours and Ash mirrors? Wonder if Ash are slightly further back?

Nope, in exactly the same place.
Ash checked on mine before fitting his.
To try and avoid this exact problem

Big Vern 22nd February 2010 09:15 PM

I suspect there are several minor issues here.

IVA Inspectors are probably required to follow normal type approval techniques in conducting field of view checks which wasn't always the case with SVA. ie rotating head but torso must remain in stationary position.

Small mirrors will have a smaller field of view from any particular viewing point.

I have also conducted a test with a small make up mirror which indicates motor cycle mirrors may not be suitable - with the mirror to my left just 18" from my head and with the right side of my face on the right hand edge of the image in the mirror I can see quite a lot behind my left shoulder and to the left of this! but when I move 50" away from the mirror and try again I can see very little of what is behind my left shoulder......
I wonder if this reduces the field of vision when using motor cycle mirrors.

As for the noise issue, I'm assuming Ash didn't use an SVA compliant muffler?
The trouble with straight through mufflers if they're LOUD:D
but I would have thought SVA compliant mufflers would have been available for some time so being over the limit by 2db would be understandable but by 7db.hhmmm.

Does the tailpipe exit horizontally or is it angled downward?

BV.

AshG 23rd February 2010 12:23 AM

well the mirrors were a fair bit bigger than the size required in the iva manual so im still not sure why i had the issue. like dave said they are in the same place as his and he passed the with the same tester at the same test station doing the same test with the same equipment. Mirror tests are the same for sva and iva. i dont know why i failed but if i fit the convex mirror glass that i acquired today the tester should be happy with the improved view.

as for the noisy exhaust I bought it off blackcab on locost builders he sold it to me because he thought it wasn't loud enough lol. what i thought about after the test was that my exhaust was actually tested with the bonnet off which i suspect slightly inflated the the reading although I think it still would have been over. i have managed to acquire a very good quality calibrated db meter off of the chairman of my flying club so will be conducting some tests later in the week with the bonnet on and off.

Bonzo 23rd February 2010 10:48 AM

Hi Ash

Do you happen to know what sound weighting is used for the IVA test .. A or C :confused:

As you Know my nearest IVA centre is a 200 + mile round trip for me :eek:

Really, really don't want sound to be an issue .... I am thinking along the lines of a cheapo GBS silencer, combined with an intermediate can !!??

I can buy a lo-cost ching chong decibel meter for general guidance .... I know it will be poor quality but should give a general idea of noise levels !!

I guess aim for about 96 - 97 db & sort out the silencer propper, post IVA ;)

I'll be OK for steering/suspension set up & have access to a rolling road for brake setup .

I would like to give my build the best chance possible & have taken into account, your recent advice .... Thank's for sharing that with us all :cool:

Big Vern 23rd February 2010 11:05 AM

Hi Ash,
What type of intake system are you running? is it stock from the sierra?
Side draught webers and bike carbs will make a lot of noise so you'll definitly need the bonnet on/good air cleaner.
As you have access to a noise meter do you have a chance to rotate the angle of the exhaust outlet to see what affect that has on noise?

BV.


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